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Rpmchris
| | Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 07:16 pm: | 
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Getting a D&D from Daves soon - thanks for all the great info, everyone! |
Crnrstr8nr
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 12:35 am: |
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Just got off my bike after installing D&D exhst, Power Commander, XB kit air cleaner, o2 sensor, and porting of air box and what a hoot the mid range packs a serious wallop. So much so that my tuner literally sat me down to give me fair warning. Of course he was telling me this while grinning ear to ear so i new he was talking with seat of the pants experience (57 miles to be exact). in any case here are the dyno numbers:
first the bad news (well not so bad when you see the good.
Peak power down from 94.0 max to 90.8 max @ 6700 rpm.
Now for the good!
SAE torque 76 ft-lbs @5900 rpm stock
SAE torque 83 ft-lbs @4500 rpm with mods
Bike holds an hp advantage from 3500 rpm to 6000 rpm ( which to me is the sweet spot of this motor anyway) from 4000 to 5400 by almost 10 hp across the spectrum.
Toque advantage is just as good. From 3500 to 4500 rpm you go from 65 ft-lbs to the peak 83 ft-lbs. At 3700 rpm 5ft-lbs over stock at 4000 10 ft-lbs at 4500 12ft-lbs advantage. in any case the bike holds a torque advantage from about 3600 rpm to 6100 rpm. |
Enp83
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 05:12 am: |
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Hmm, if/when I get my XB12 I'm gonna have to relearn that D&D exhausts are actually okay...cause they're extremely sh*tty on most jap/euro sportbikes. The sound they make on any race replica with an inline4 is just horrable, I won't even ride next to someone with a D&D exhaust on an I4 race rep. Gotta remember to keep an open minded about D&D and Buells. |
BadS1
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 02:04 pm: |
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I've never heard anyone complain about D&D on there inlines.Great pipe gret company. |
Enp83
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 05:01 pm: |
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ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? Wow, I'm not joking...the only people I see with D&D exhausts on their CBRS, Ninjas, GSXRs, YZFs are new riders, squids or people who own one but aren't all that into 'em. On those types of bikes D&D is right down there with Vance and Hines exhaust. I don't think I've ever heard a worse exhaust on a bike than a 600cc race rep with a D&D exhaust. I'm NOT saying D&D isn't a good exhaust for Buells, I could believe it if they are one of the better choices out there....but they're not even in the ballpark as other exhausts on race replicas....not even close. |
Dtx
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 05:03 pm: |
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I agree, the D&D's for the import bikes are obnoxious and funny sounding. I have the D&D for the buell and it is not even comparable for sound, quality, looks etc. When I told my brother I was getting a D&D for my Buell he said "are you sure about that?" Since he had only been around the D&D on his roommates GSXR. After seeing and hearing it, he agreed it was a good choice. |
Enp83
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 05:06 pm: |
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Vance and Hines, while no where near ridiculously loud like D&D, still seems to be a bit down on quality compared to Micron, Yosh, M4, Jardine, Arka, Arata, ect....Both D&D and V&Hs are completely different for Buells, and both may very well be great choices. |
BadS1
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 06:57 pm: |
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I had a D&D on my GSXR 750 and also on my FZR 1000 both awesome results and sounded great.I don't know where you guys get your specs from.D&D and V&H have been around for a long time they know how to build a pipe.As for my bikes they both ran better,performed flawless.Have you personally owned one of their pipes or are you going off what he/she said??? |
Crnrstr8nr
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:26 pm: |
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Personally, after hearing my 12R with the D&D, i dont care what pipe you put on an inline four they all will sound enemic when running next my 12R. Hell, i even have to ask my ridin buddy if his bike is even running and he's riding a race kitted 996 Duc, lmao.
Oh yea and the stares you get across the board from people as you go by are hilarious, especially when splitting lanes.
(Message edited by CRNRSTR8NR on February 10, 2005) |
BadS1
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:32 pm: |
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Oh Yeah!!! |
Opto
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Crnrstr8nr, what model of Power Commander are you using? Great results from your D&D and mods BTW.
BadS1, you've been saying good things about the D&D for a while now, it sure looks a good choice for the 12. Do you really need to wear ear plugs with this pipe? |
Crnrstr8nr
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:07 pm: |
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using powercommander for an X1, and thanx thats one vote for the mods vs. the one against.
.....Of course, the vote against it was from my wife when she realized that loud sound that kept getttin closer to the house was me on my new and improved XB12R. She had no idea why i put it in the shop til then. Of course its easier to beg for forgiveness than it is to get permission.
(Message edited by crnrstr8nr on February 10, 2005) |
BadS1
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:09 pm: |
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Opto...Ya know when I jumped into getting the D&D all I wanted is more noise you can ask Dave S that.I had the Drummer at the time and was happy.But didn't care I wanted more sound...so I bought the D&D.I didn't know what I was miss'n.As far as ear plugs...yeah you'll need them on longer rides.It could rattle around in the helmet a bit much. |
Opto
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:16 pm: |
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A lot of people would near kill for almost 10hp gain from 4000 to 5400rpm, that would make it really launch out of the corners compared to stock. |
BadS1
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:20 pm: |
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Opto I wish I could at least let you ride my bike.It would make you a believer. |
Crnrstr8nr
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:36 pm: |
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Opto,
The pull from that rpm range is incredible, so much so that my tuner wanted to make sure that i understood as much. but with a smooth throttle hand you will launch out of corners like a scalded dog. It has also become the roll on power wheelie king of my riding group. |
Enp83
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:42 pm: |
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BadS1, again like I said...the only people I've ever heard say anything good about D&D's (on inline fours, Buells a whole different thing) are new riders, squids or people who just don't know any better. Most of them think the louder the better...like Frank the Tank from Old School <wife says>"It's really loud." Frank replies "Thanx." <rolling eyes>
I don't follow racing all that closely but I don't think I've ever seen a D&D sponsers road racing team. Gee, I wonder why....because their product is complete crap (again, for race reps not Buells). If you go to a sportbike message board that isn't manufacturer or bike specific, a board that has few squids and a lot of knowledge people who race, do track days, have owned several bikes, do many performance mods and actually dyno their bikes instead of just adding up the horsepower gains advertised for each mod, ect....unless it's some message board out in bizzaro world, a great majority of riders will think D&D is one of the worst exhausts out there for race reps.
To a lesser extent V&H is down there too, D&D never made good exhausts for race reps and V&H has just quit trying...you can see it in their quality and in their pricing, you get what you pay for...and you'll see D&D and V&H are pretty cheap compared to other brands. |
Firebolt020283
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 01:44 am: |
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enp u have got to be the only person i have seen down V&h about there exhasts which makes me question the credibility of ur acusations about the d&d though i havent herd much about them other than on the buells. I do know that v&h have good stuff and it would take alot to convince me otherwise. |
Enp83
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 02:13 am: |
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firebolt, they may have good stuff for Buells, but they haven't had good stuff for CBRs/GSXRs/etc for years now. Again, they're usually priced cheaper than other exhausts...you get what you pay for. Show me a road racing team that uses V&H now and days, theres a reason why they're not popular on the track (drag racing and Buells are completely different, just like D&D's Buell stuff is).
Don't just take my word for it, ask sportbikers who race or do trackdays with CBRs, ninjas gixxers ect...not squids, posers and new riders.
I don't mean to try and crap on anyone elses bike or exhaust here, but again...D&D and V&H are good choices for Buells (and thats not a stab at Buells either) but they're a far from great on race replicas.
(Message edited by enp83 on February 11, 2005)
(Message edited by enp83 on February 12, 2005) |
Dilysi73
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 04:53 am: |
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I know this board is about the D&D but do any of you have any exp. with the latus exh. from american sports bike?
i'm new to BWB, Buell, and this is MY first bike. I just bought a 04 Lightning XB9s. any help would be great.
THNX |
Hogs
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 06:59 am: |
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Dilysi73,
This may help I run the D&D on my 12r, and I got a deal on a latus and got that on my old ladies xb12cgs, Now my whole wifes family are born Deaf, the wife has about 60 percent hearing in one ear and thats it, She likes the Latus and it does perform Good But she has rode mine and SHE wants that Sound More Deep,just more of the Regular HD> Sound etc.etc that she is used to after riding HD`s for the past 20 or so years, Now I`m sure from what I have heard here IF she had a Force it wd. probally bring even a Bigger smile to her Face!!!I wd. say myself the D&D has more of a Punch 'sound" than the latus... |
Crnrstr8nr
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 03:02 pm: |
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enp83
Sport Rider did a 30 pipe test in there Oct issue and the D&D did quite well. They highlight the quality of construction and the power increase was equal to the more expensive Akropovic, it beat the more expensive Arata in hp gain as well as the Jardine which is "cheaper". Oh, and as for Yosh, they to were down on the hp to the D&D as well.
This test was done using a Yamaha R6 as the test mule and all the pipes were run on the dyno.
Their one minor complaint was that at 7000 rpm the D&D got excruciating loud. Of course Jeremy Burgess while with the Honda Moto GP Team said the same thing when Ducati's suddenly became very loud, but he also noticed the power and soon after the Moto GP Bikes of Honda were much louder as well (ref: "Faster" the movie). As for not wanting to ride alongside of one, my suggestion is try to lead as most exhausts are always offensive when leading you.
As for not "being raced" you are wrong again its just that D&D does not race on as large a scale as some of these larger manufacturers, but they do sponsor some privateer racers. Sponsorship for teams is very expensive and only the larger companies can come up with sponsorships or offer contingency money such as Europes Akrapovic or Yoshimura. As for V&H, they ran the factory Yamaha team b4 they to found that road racing was getting to exp. and it is a well known fact that they since changed there focus back to drag racing which was their roots.
(Message edited by crnrstr8nr on February 11, 2005) |
Crnrstr8nr
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 03:20 pm: |
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Hogs
You would be correct in regards to the Force exhaust. It is just short of an open header. I did not go with it because i dont want the ticket the Cailifornia Highway Patrol would love to issue me. The D&D gets them staring at me enough as it is. I hear the Force is nearly 130db's the D&D sounds like 110 to 120. |
Hogs
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 03:25 pm: |
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Hey Crnrstr8nr
Are we talking about the old force or the new one ? Also who knows if the new force is design for the 9 and a different one for the 12 or is it like the old system one design for both , and if so I wonder how that can be??? |
BadS1
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 03:42 pm: |
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Erik what you haven't done is your homework about pipes or the people you get your crap from.NEW RIDERS???Well I've been riding 19 yrs now on the street.Wow that means you were 3 when I was riding.Squids????I'm not.People that do track day I know plenty.Poser???I see from your profile that you have a helmet on your smart for that but you don't wear any other protective gear. |
Crnrstr8nr
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 04:01 pm: |
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Hey Hogs
Im not sure as i was just researching prior to purchasing my current pipe. When i e-mailed "Force" some 3mos ago they said they were in the process of making one for the 12 although i cant be sure as i was talking to a lot of companies. Once i focus on what im gettin i forget the rest, lmao. i got a lot of info from this site though goto search and type in Force and see what you get. There is a current thread on someone who installed one as well. |
Enp83
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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Hey badS1, why don't you read the profile instead of just looking at the pictures ("It's called reading, top to bottom, left to right, group words together into sentences. Take tylenol for any headaches, midol for any cramps." ...and I quote
"Riding attire: The pic is certainly not my normal riding attire. I feel naked without gloves, boots and a jacket."
But thanx anyway....try not to get your panties in a bunch okay? BTW it's Eric with a C, unlike Mr. Buell.
As far as Sportrider's pipe test is concerned, Akrapovic, Arata, ect are not known for the slip ons...their full systems are what make their names. I can't believe you can't see the difference in quality between a D&D and Akrapovic CF muffler so I doubt you'll see the difference between their headers (and it's just oh so obvious  ). I think I remember seeing that none of the slipons tested gave more than a 2rwhp boost...like you can tell the difference between 1.3rwhp and 1.8rwhp. If you're going to do many mods you want to go with a full system anyway(minus a few specific bikes, ex. SP2 RC51), if you just want the sound and look go with a slipon. I don't know many racers that waste their time with slipons...
"Their one minor complaint was that at 7000 rpm the D&D got excruciating loud."
Hello, what I've been saying ALL ALONG! Not just loud, but ungodly loud. That does GREAT...GREAT PR work for motorcyclists when they're riding around on the streets covered with soccer moms who already hate us. If you go to sportriders website you can hear all 30 pipes they tested, it's pretty sad that even on a computer you can tell the D&D exhaust is louder than all the others. As far as riding infront of D&D riders, most of the ones I've come across tend to speed around town anyway...I let them go ahead and get the tickets, it's always amusing to hear them complain about the cops targeting bikers.
D&D and racing, please show me an even quasi-decent (and recent) road racing team that uses D&D exhaust.(race replica, not a Buell either...again, two totally different things)
Yet ANOTHER way to tell where D&D stands compared to all the other exhausts out there, take a look at bikes whos average rider is more informed and better educated. How many D&D or V&H exhausts do you see on Aprilias, BMWs, Ducatis, Moto Guzzis, MVs, Triumphs? I can't believe how hard it seems to be for some people to connect all these dots. I've never heard of anybody (minus any Buellers) "upgrading" from one aftermarket exhaust to a D&D or V&H exhaust either. |
Crnrstr8nr
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 03:21 am: |
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Wow enp83 you must be a regular bullwinkle, just so you know, since, lets repeat your quote " i dont follow racing very much". well, I have followed racing and my statement stands (and have been riding since before you were a nut stain in your daddy's pants (RD's; RZ's; FZ's; FZR's; BMW's; GSXR's; VFR's and of course Buell)). And have ran more different pipes than you can shake a stick at. D&D does not have the budget to offer full support but they do have some privateers running them. As to Akro not being known for their slip-ons would that give me credence to say they are crap? I dont think so. As for the sound of the D&D on the buell are you under the impression that its a "quiet" pipe? Sorry to burst your bubble but it is not, as a matter of fact it is second only to the Force pipe in decibals, as far as im aware. So for you the topic is moot since you want a quiet pipe (pffffffffffffffff as opposed to vrroooommmm).
But most importantly you should not talk as if you know it all as i can tell you dont by your last statement regarding the Euro makes you listed that would prove these pipes are in the mainstream. For starters, really the only manufacturer of after market exhaust for BMW is Staintune & Jardine(*) so using your logic all the other pipes must be crap!? Ducs, Guzzis, MV's (lol) and Triumphs also have very limited manufacturers as well (almost all being European, i.e. Akro; Jardine; Staintune; Micron etc.). So I suppose the ones that dont make pipes for those marks would be crap as well. And even though you wrote 4 paragraphs you still havent reconciled the "fact" that the D&D on the R6 out performed most of your beloved pipes, not an opinion just a simple "fact".
(*)Although Ron Wood makes a wicked header pipe for the F650, but again its very loud...shhhhh.
PS: By the way it's "etc." not "ect."
(Message edited by crnrstr8nr on February 12, 2005) |
Enp83
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 06:00 am: |
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http://www.sportbikes.com/wwwthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/852277/an/0/page/ 0#852277
Keep an eye out there, great sportbike message board with riders from Aprilia, BMW, Buell, Ducati, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Triumph, Yamaha and more...15K + registered users, not looking too good so far for D&D and V&H.
Again, please show me a road racing team that uses D&D that isn't a Buell (like I said many times before yet you obviously didn't get since you went back to it, D&Ds maybe a great choice for Buells but they're complete sh*t for jap race replicas.)...you know I'll be waiting.
As for the sound of the D&D on the buell are you under the impression that its a "quiet" pipe? Sorry to burst your bubble but it is not, as a matter of fact it is second only to the Force pipe in decibals, as far as im aware. So for you the topic is moot since you want a quiet pipe (pffffffffffffffff as opposed to vrroooommmm).\)
Please show me where I ever gave the impression that I thought D&D made a quiet pipe?  Sorry you don't get to burst any bubble, but you do get to reread posts again. I'd also like to know when I said I wanted a quiet pipe. Never said that at all, like a great, great majority of sportbikers I don't want a ridiculously loud pipe (D&D) on an I4...I still want a loud pipe, but D&D is beyong loud (again so you don't forget, were talking I4s not Buells).
I would absolutely love it if you went around telling people that D&D makes the best slip ons due to hp gains on a R6...after all it is a "fact" that D&D is superior to most of the other pipes in that test. 
Keep an eye out for the comments people leave in this thread too.... My guess, it's not going to be too }pretty for you.
http://yzf-r1forum.net/forums/msgreplies/1572/1438116 |
Rpmchris
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 04:10 pm: |
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Children, play nicely or you'll be sent to the naughty corner (or chair, or stool, or where ever Super Nanny sends bad children - "MOM! HE'S LOOKING AT ME!!" ) 
Let's get back on topic, K?
I ride a Buell, an '04 XB12S to be exact. I've only had it since the first of November, and I've read everything there is to read on pipes - both opinions ("Mine's the best..." and facts ("The dyno shows...". I just purchased a D&D and installed it myself - it was very easy. Hardest part was removing the interactive exhaust cable. I don't have a dyno run to prove whatever power it's making (along with the Buell Race ECM and K&N Race Filter), but my butt dyno says, "WOOHOO!" and my ears say, "Holy crap!"
Nuff said. |
BadS1
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 05:28 pm: |
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Derlic...oops that with a E sorry.Theres lots of pipes that are not being ran by racers or teams,that doesn't mean its a bad pipe moron.As far as reading I didn't care to.I got what I wanted out of it.First impressions are usually correct as far as your profile pic is concerned. |
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