| Author | Message | ||
     Odie  |
Should be, as far as stock settings go. If you notice, there isn't a difference in settings for a 9 or a 12 in the instructions. It would all come down to modifications you have performed. You will also further notice that there is a wide range of settings being used and mod's aren't that different user to user. Could be state of tune, geographical location (temp, PA, humidity). I'm going to tweak mine a little after some new plug wires tomorrow and see what I get. I want to get rid of a slight, intermittent stumble that is evading me........Odie | ||
| Cataract2 |
I'm thinking with the race ECM that that we wouldn't need the red pot on the TFI. because with the race ECM wasn't it shown to help a lot at the top end? So having the TFI kick up the fuel there would only richen it to much. I think we need the green and Yellow for the idle and midrange where the Race ECM doesn't help. Right? Or do I have this all mixed up? | ||
| Opto |
now decided to try the race ecm with the tfi all set to minimum settings.....this run was the best yet,clearly better than the buell set up previously,the gas probe indicated that the cruise portion of the fuel curve was very very week,showing only 0.5% co,we adjusted the green cruise pot until the analyzer was showing 3.0%,also set the red pot and the rpm pot,but left the yellow pump accelerator at zero. settings G=7 Y=1 R=5 RPM=7 this was the cleanest pull so far without any stutter,gave an increase over anything we had seen previously, Sounds like you and your tuner got a result, the pots are there to be adjusted, doesn't matter if the accelerator pump yellow pot is turned right down. All the XB's are so different in that all up there are 5 different ecm's, 2 different capacities with different throttle bodies, and a multitude of exhausts and airboxes and climates that they run in. Doebeck give a suggested starting point, and 4 pots to fine tune it, looks like the pots work well too. I wouldn't be disappointed, and much of the advantage of the Techlusion may be in rideability as well as a bit more HP where the bike was previously running too lean. | ||
| Rigga  |
opto...you may be correct,as it seems there is a varied number of settings used by people on this board,simlar set ups may be used,but in different locations,temp,altitude variations,ecm's used and 9 or 12 xb's......some things are never as straight forward as it seems sometimes,and chasing the last little bit of power out of a bike on a dyno,does not always equate to a good drivable engine for the street......but this is half the fun of owning and modifying a bike,i may not have got as much hp improvement as i was expecting,torque gains though seem good,which for a street based motor im more interested in...but in the end i got there,so far all seems well,it may improve over time,it may not,its only done 2500 miles so far after all,so still slightly tight maybe,but having some fun finding out | ||
| Cataract2 |
Rigga, how is it on the street at those settings? Everything smooth? I'm tempted to try them tomorrow and see how it works. Also is your combo the race ECM and TFI or stock ECM and TFI? (Message edited by cataract2 on January 23, 2005) | ||
| Rigga |
spec is race ecm,tfi adjusted to the above settings,cut away 12 airbox,reflective heat mat fitted on the street it feels great,no hesitation pulls nice and clean,great top end and very good midrange pull,as i previously said when i was running both ecm's prior to dyno time on dobecks settings the low end and top end on the race ecm was so much better than the stock item,just the midrange was terible,but this now been cleared right up...it does pull a lot stronger now with the exhaust change,air filter change and tfi set up,dont get too hung up on peoples settings though,as ive mention elsewhere just now,not all two bikes,even running the exact same mods i think would need the exact same tfi settings,dobecks numbers are i believe just a base setting,they are there to be adjusted till the optimum setting is reached for your particular bike,trenchtractor has pointed out,what i believe to be a very valid point as to why i have had to reach such an extreme settings range.....i run a reflective heat blanket which has dramaticly cut down the heat build up,the outer cover no longer feels very warm to the touch after a ride,but it also must have reduced the air temp that the iat sensor reads as it is positioned above this mat....Brad has suggested i try running the bike with the iat positioned underneath the blanket like the f.a.s.t system,and see what that results in....a good point i think....odie you run a heat blanket also,where is your iat positioned?,and your thoughts on this (Message edited by rigga on January 24, 2005) | ||
| Odie |
Rigga, just posted on the other thread also. I have my IAT sensor in the stock position still. I have to change plugs and wires today so maybe I'll pull it out and see what happens. I have been thinking about putting it underneath the barrier "FAST" style which I'm sure would alter things but do you really think the difference in heat radiation with and without the barrier makes that big of a difference on the TFI? It does keep alot of hot air out..........hmmmmmmm | ||
| Xbolt12 |
Rigga, Dobeck states in several places that the RPM pot is not used for RPM on the Buell XB. It is used for the offset voltage to the stock oxygen sensor. I would certainly leave the fourth pot alone as such. You can easily verify by calling support at Dobeck. I have however noticed that every time I make a change on my xb12, it doesn't seem to run very well until I ride it for a while. That really makes me wonder how to get consistent real-world dyno runs without reseting the AFV each time and giving the bike time to adapt. Just pondering though .... xbolt12 | ||
| M1combat  |
"Dobeck states in several places that the RPM pot is not used for RPM on the Buell XB. It is used for the offset voltage to the stock oxygen sensor. I would certainly leave the fourth pot alone as such. " I must be blind. I just read EVERY peice of text on the entire dobeck website including the support forums for all the other manufacturers. The ONLY place I see anyone saying that is "Pro Fueller" in the Buell support forum. The Buell install instructions mention in the "Problems with fuel mileage" section as the second suggestion that poor fuel mileage may be due to having the "RPM" pot too low. The ONLY person that says ANYTHING about the fourth pot NOT being an RPM pot is Pro Fueller. Posts by the administrator (Pro Fueller is a "member"  seem to indicate that the "RPM" pot is an "RPM" pot. The instruction PDF that specifically states that it is for a Buell mentions the "RPM" pot as well. Please give me a link to ONE place where an "official" from Dobeck Perfomance says that the "RPM" pot is NOT and "RPM" pot. Thanks in advance. | ||
| Hanses25  |
Hey Cyko Sorry its kind late replying to your post. I cut the back off the stock can and removed the exit section of pipe so the exhaust flows down the initial tube then out. I love it I rode a bit today and hit second gear and couldn't keep the front end down, I'm not sure what doing this modification does or how much, but I love it. Osan huh great shopping outside Osan, the I ran the hot refuel point in camp humphreys while I was there. So where you ride in Korea? | ||
| Ingemar |
Hear hear M1, Quote from George Leving at Dobeck in reply to one of my mails to him:
Ingemar. | ||
| Rigga |
ok so if its not an rpm pot..what is the recomended setting for a buell,if its not adjustable why make it a pot in the first place? | ||
| Ingemar |
It's recommended setting is in the instructions that come with the unit. | ||
| Cyko_bob  |
Hanses25...Yes, I read in one of your posts how you modified the stock can. I think I am going to wind up with several mufflers...race can, Jardine, and the stock. I will have to modify the stock at some point just to see what happens  As for riding in Korea, I have been from top to bottom (DMZ to the tip - Mopko). I have been from West to East. The east coast reminds me a lot of Hawaii, except for the Korean soldiers patrolling the beaches. One of my favorite destinations is a love motel called the Denmark. The riding is great over here...lots of mountains and twisties. Most folks that are stationed here rarely get away from the cities...rarely are on a bike. They don't know what they are missing. Well, these guys are talking Techlusion...don't want to cut in too much, but wanted to respond. I will have the pleasure of riding over here at least another year and a half...maybe more...depends on when I retire. Then, although I will be riding the Texas Hill Country, I will also be getting a place in British Columbia...live for the mountains and twisties... Racin' the wind and chasin' the sun...Cyko Bob | ||
| Opto |
I am following this thread (and the other 2) with keen interest as this is the first commercially available plug-n-play black box to be offered to XB owners to allow them to adjust the fuel mixture (that I know of). It's possibly an answer to many's prayers. My thanks go out to the current lot of pioneers who are trying out this unit. I read Pro Fueller's comments on the Dobeck site and he is quite believable, and also backed up by Ingemar. It does look like the 4th pot (referred to as the "cruise" pot in an administrator's post) controls the O2 sensor voltage to the ecm, and I know from practical experience that there will be a check engine light and O2 trouble code if the engine runs richer than what the ecm could possibly expect. So Dobeck must have found the best/most consistent/most reliable results from using the 7 position for this pot, which I would imagine would have the least impact on the Adaptive Fuel Value i.e. the AFV will not change with this pot set at 7 (from the FM: the adaptive fuel value which is "learned" during closed loop operation is applied during open loop operation to adjust fuel and spark maps for optimum performance). I would think the AFV would eventually drift fully high or fully low and stay there if this pot was shifted from the 7 position, that's why I have been consistently asking lately if anyone has been able to measure what the AFV is doing after running the TFI, because if the AFV shifts so would the total fuel mixture. I'm betting that at the 7 position the AFV doesn't shift and that that is what Dobeck found from their research. That leaves the green pot for richening up the bottom end/midrange and the red pot for the top end (possibly from 5500rpm up according to Pro Fueller) and the yellow pot to add acceleration enrichment if required (when you yank the throttle open). I can't see the yellow pot being needed much for a fairly stock bike since I've never heard of an XB stumbling on rapid throttle application. So if the yellow pot is turned up too much it might be just adding unnecessary extra fuel and dropping the mpg for no real benefit. It may be that the major tuning on a fairly stock motor is through the green and red pots, which is a lot easier than tuning 4 pots. I'm just thinking out loud here, don't have a TFI but sure wish Santa brought me one. You've been quiet on this one Trenchtractor, what are you up to? | ||
| 2k3lightning  |
Has anyone run with a d&d, open k&n with 12 lid use the TFI. Do I run the same settings as all others here? Just curious because not in an area with a dyno to tune with? I understand the whole baseline settings just curious. | ||
| Ingemar |
They are not problems, just tuning issues  . Most are tuning the TFI without a dyno and A/F ratio map so it's tuned by trial and error. You may run into a similar issue, but most on the board get away with perfect results with just the default recommended settings. Don't let it keep you from getting one because this is just a matter of turning pots and finding the right setting. | ||
| Odie |
This is a must have item!!! You will not believe the difference when combined with intake and exhaust mods.....Odie | ||
| Glitch  |
I got mine installed last night. Only rode around the block, just because I had to. So far, so good, settings are set to what is given in the instructions. I'm trying desperately to leave work so I can ride, test, and grin! 2k3lighting Just do it! Simple to install, looks to be easy enough to tune. I've done a dyno (before TFI) so I know where it runs lean, I'll be doing another after I feel I've done all the tuning I can without a dyno. Besides, where are you going to get better support/sugestions than here? | ||
| Newxb9er  |
I've got the D&D, TFI, and gonna cut the airbox with the K&N. I'll let you know what I end up with. The only thing everyone recommends is start at the standard settings, and tweak from their. Once I get it tuned I'll let you know. | ||
| 2k3lightning |
As always you "GUYS" are the best with all this great information. I went on your lead and just opened my package left by the brown truck from DAVE. Great service again and again that was a quick 2 weeks  Thanks DAVE now if this snow would go away. Thanks also Misato for the info on the seat cowl (Message edited by 2k3lightning on January 25, 2005) (Message edited by 2k3lightning on January 26, 2005) | ||
| Cataract2 |
Grrrrr. Dang cruise is being a pain. Set the Green pot to 4 and the idle at 2200 RPM smoothed out. So, I'll test it later. | ||
| Rigga |
stick with it cataract2........im pretty sure it can be ironed out,im in contact with george at dobeck at the moment,he is as mystyfied as myself as to why my set up is so far off the recomended settings,keep you posted as to what he thinks though | ||
| Xbolt12 |
Sorry M1, I guess I was wrong about the 4th pot function being documented (funny, could have sworn I saw it somewhere). Anyway you guys are on the right track and you are correct it was mentioned in the support forum. I do find it interesting that the default looks like 7 in the manual, is listed as 7 in one forum answer, and then listed and 7:30 in the most recent forum answer. Not sure which is correct, but my xb is running great in the 7:00 position on pot 4. I don't recall what the other pots are set to, but as I recall I fattened up low speed and then reset to defaults later when I found a hole in the emissions can feed line to the throttle body. I'll post up settings when I get a chance to pull the seat. BTW, if you are talking to George, can you ask him what changes have been made to the programming of the early units? Mine seems fine, but I heard there might have been some bug fixes, or perhaps it is just a map to allow more maximum fuel? xbolt12 | ||
| Trenchtractor  |
'You've been quiet on this one Trenchtractor, what are you up to?' Yeah, I have sent Rigga a couple of emails with suggestions... I think the heat sheild he's using has reduced the air temp, but proly reduced the IAT reading by more than the air temp has actually been reduced... If you know what I mean... This would make the ECM think the air is dencer than it is, adding fuel... He said he's gonna try it under the matt later and see what happens... I've tested the TFi with the stock and pro series ECM now... There is more to be had from the pro series ECM, which only confirms our suspicions that it's advance curve is 'harder'... I've not experienced any pinging at all with the pro series ecm, and it's been a bit of a stinker up here... So I think that confirms what we thought about needing more fuel to fix our pinging problems... I've tested the prototype muffler I have been working on and it is fantastic down low... When I added the pro series ecm, it really picked up the top end a lot... I did find that muffler with the pro series ecm need the yellow pot set to half what dobeck recomended or it was sluggish as I got on the throttle... Too much fuel. I tested the Jardine, it needs a LOT more fuel than the prototype muffler, varifying the my thoughts that the Jardine should not be used without the TFi, even with the race ecm... It lost a lot below 3,000rpm, but I don't think that is a fair comparison since both mufflers are designed to do the exact opposite of each other. I'm back to the stock settings with the Jardine, just until I can book some dyno time at Kawasaki... Oh, and I had an exhaust leak from the front header there for a bit that until I picked it up wreaked havok with my testing... I guess the point I have is that Rigga shouldn't be dissapointed with ahving settings far from the Dobeck recommended ones, since he's proly running a set-up that is so far from what Dobeck tested with... | ||
| Newxb9er |
This is what's so fun about this. In my opinion it isn't as fun if you just plug it in and go. The good ole days, you had to adjust your jets on your carb. to get it just perfect. People are so spoiled these days. I like it. I like that I get to "tune" my bike! | ||
| Cataract2 |
Hmmmm... 5 seems to have smoothed it out much better. Least now when I'm cruising and I turn the throttle back to about 1-3mm from closed it doesn't stutter to much as it slows down. Getting there. | ||
| M1combat |
This was an e-mail thread, so read it backwards... Xbolt was indeed correct (and Pro Fueller is now listed as a "moderator" for the Buell board). Set the fourth pot to seven. BTW... I'll let you guys know pretty soon what settings I come up with for a 12R, cut airbox, K&N, deleted snorkel, stock ECM and a Force Exhaust  . ----- Original Message ----- From: Techlusion Tech Support To: Quaggoth Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 8:42 AM Subject: RE: Newly installed on a Buell XB12R and getting conflicting information... Please advise this is correct. pro fueler is an in the field associate who has a definate handle on the technology. Dobeck Performance currently sells two closed loop units, one for the Buell and one for the BMW. in order to control cloded loop voltage the rpm pot had to be used thus requiring a preset main jet interface at around 5000 rpm's. the general guidelines that are in place for the products are just that, GENERAL GUIDELINES. please understand that we have done the testing and we have seen the results and frankly, it's supposed to be simple. the Power Commander and other procucts like it have trained everyone to be to techincal. we make an electronic "JET KIT" that also helps with closed loop surging, no more no less. hope this helps out. have a great ride -----Original Message----- From: Quaggoth [mailto:quaggoth@cableone.com] Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 6:09 PM To: info@techlusion.com Subject: Newly installed on a Buell XB12R and getting conflicting information... Please advise The printed manual I received, the PDF document on this site and a post to the support forums by an Administrator seem to indicate that the "RPM" pot adjusts the RPM that the "main jet" kicks in on a Buell. There is a user on your support forum named "Pro Fueler" that seems to be telling me that "on a Buell" this is not the case. He seems to be telling me that the "RPM" pot is NOT an "RPM" pot but that it is an "O2 sensor voltage attenuation" pot (for lack of a better term). Here are the two places that seem to say that the "RPM" pot is just that - http://www.dobeckperformance.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=5&posts=1 The relevant section - " All Harley and Metric V-twins Sets the rpm that the green and yellow fuel turns off and the red (main jet) turns on. This adjustment is achieved by setting the pot to about 70% of redline (for example a Harley-Davidson Roadking redline is 5800 rpm and 4000 is 70% of redline) which would be 4:00 o’clock. Verify this setting by revving the bike in neutral and watching for the green and yellow light to go out at the chosen rpm. " http://www.dobeckperformance.com/instructions/1045/TFI1045st.pdf Notice in this PDF doc that under the section labeled "Problem Poor Mileage" that step two indicates that if you see a marked decrease in fuel economy that the RPM pot may be adjusted too low. This, and the fact that this specific document mentions that it contains the installation instruction for "Buell" motorcycles seems to indicate that the RPM pot does indeed work as an "RPM pot. Pro Fueller says this - " The fourth pot is for the closed loop circuit. it should be set at 7:00 and should never really change from there. The main jet has a pre determined rpm (5500)at which it comes on. " IF what Pro Fueller says is correct... Don't you think that having a main jet that kicks in at 5500RPM on my 1200cc Buell that revs out at 6800 (I RARELY ever go over 6000) is a bit too high? Shouldn't it come in at 4750 on a twelve or 5250 on a nine? Also... If what Pro Fueller says is correct... What will be the affect of running the "RPM" pot lower or higher than the 7:00 he recommends? I don't mean to offend anyone by asking this, but does Pro-Fueller have any idea what he's talking about? I would imagine that if he had inside knowledge and/or works for Dobeck Performance that he would be something other than a "Member" of the support forum. Especially when his posts seem to contradict what the Administrator has posted. Again... Please advise... | ||
| Rigga |
Brad........ nice bit of testing there,your results back up my own in that the jardine does req a lot more fuel than the stock ecm provides,no real suprise really as it is such a free flowing design compared to the baffled type buell silencers,after all a bit of perforated pipe with some sound absorbtion material around it is never going to restrict the exhaust gas flow,this would lead me to think other silencers of this type would also be in the same position D+D?.... like yourself the race ecm i think is more suited to the jardine,picks up power a lot better,on the stock ecm it just would not run,but again a combo of the opened up airbox and i believe the heat mat reducing air temp have contributed to this situation,again i believe dobecks testing was around a more standard type set up which is how they acheived the settings they came to,but once again those are just guide lines to start with,george has told me though that they have tfi units fitted to 105hp race bikes that use mid way settings on the tfi...so not sure about that when looking at how my settings came to be found,but this unit is capable of adjusting fuel on bikes with big bores,cams,flowed heads etc,so the range of adjustments are there...the race ecm must have a more aggressive advance curve,although its never been confirmed,as just to increase fuel supply without increasing ignition makes no sence to me....4th pot...mine is set on reccomended position 7,but when testing on the dyno and adjusting this pot we found no problems with trouble codes or managment light issues,so im still slightly confused as per m1combat on its intended use,bottom line is although your bike may work great with the reccomended settings,if you have changed anything even fitting the race kit only,i would have a little play to see if it can be improved even more,you might be suprised,cataract has tried my settings on his bike,and apart from a slight stumble which he is sorting out,things are looking good,i will try the iat under the heat mat next week when i have more time,plus try tweaking the yellow and red pots a little bit,but right now im not disapointed at all in the bikes performace....smiles all the way | ||
| Opto |
Finally found something on the Dobeck site under Forums/General Tech Support-> General Questions, re the 4th pot for closed loop EFI systems (Buell and BMW) Cruise Pot: This feature allows the tuner to target a percentage of fuel during normal closed loop operation. The closed loop systems on motorcycles targets a signal from the o2 sensor. The cruise pot adjustment coupled with our unique programming gives the tuner the ability to add fuel during cruise without the closed loop system pulling fuel back out. Countless hours of testing resulted in the suggested setting that comes in the instructions, in some cases where the volumetric efficiency has been increased by various engine modifications the need to target a slightly different percentage of fuel may be needed, this is where the range of cruise adjustment may be needed. |
