| Author | Message | ||
     2k4xb12  |
I just installed the TFI on my XB12. I searched the site but find that most installs are on XB9s. Who has installed one on their 12, and what settings did you settle on, and what mods have you done? I was running the race ECM but swapped back when I installed the TFI. I'm also running a Drummer. Steve. | ||
| Tatsu |
XB12R...used what was recommended. RACE ECM, DRILLED AIRBOX, DRUMMER and RACE FILTER. | ||
| Newxb9er |
What was the general consensus on the Race ECM? Use it with the Techlusion or not? Or really no need. | ||
| Tatsu |
I like it.. smoother throttle response. Feels a little stronger.. Tatsu | ||
| Ingemar  |
I don't think there are any advantages in using the race ecm with the techlusion over the stock ecm. If you have your stock ecm, I'd sell the race ecm since it will pay for half of the tfi. | ||
| Rigga  |
i plan on keeping my race ecm fitted when i purchase a techlusion pretty soon,as i think the added fueling and advanced spark timing the race item has over the standard one would be a better base setting to start from,the jardine pipe and air box mods that will also go on the bike might make this a required fitment rather than a choice anyway,more air flow through the motor obviously req more fuel,the race ecm gives this over the road version,plus the advanced sparks help the search for more power....just my thoughts id be interested if anyone thinks this is wrong though | ||
| Ingemar |
I'd ask that question to dobeck too if I were you. | ||
| Rigga |
ingemar....... ive read that they reccomend sticking with the standard ecm,but have they actually said not to use the race ecm with the tfi????? they also i believe offer a wider ranging adjustment eprom flash to cater for those bikes that req more fuel than the tfi can adjust for,but if the race ecm gives a higher fuelling base line to start with would that not negate that need?....plus i cant see that not having the more advanced spark timing of the race ecm is a better option?? more fuel would need a better spark for a more complete burn no?? | ||
| Ingemar |
Rigga, I don't know how the tfi works. Maybe it overrules anything the ecm decides to provide the engine with. You see, I don't know if the tfi adds fuel to what the ecm is providing or not. It is really a quesion I believe you should ask to Dobeck. I wouldn't worry about spark advance too much. It was a concern of mine too in the beginning. But after installing the tfi, I know for a fact that the combination of tfi and stock ecm provides me with more power than the race ecm alone. The difference in the dyno's I've seen between stock and race ecm on an otherwise unchanged bike are most likely from the difference in A/F ratio than anything else IMO. Ingemar. | ||
| Speedy |
He Ingemar if you want you can bay the race ecm back if you want. | ||
| Rigga |
ingemar....... you say you know for a fact the standard ecm and tfi together make more power than the race ecm.....have you done back to back dyno runs to compare ? or does it just feel stronger?,ive emailed dobeck and asked the question anyway,but hoped the owners on here who have tried the tfi with the race ecm could enlighten me on why its a bad idea | ||
| Ingemar |
you say you know for a fact the standard ecm and tfi together make more power than the race ecm.....have you done back to back dyno runs to compare ? or does it just feel stronger? "It just feels stronger". That is as accurate as I can be at the moment. Sorry. Speedy, Thanks but I don't want the race ecm back. I sold it in a few hours after posting an add. I suggest you do the same if you want to get rid of it. And as a sidenote, I'm keeping my stock pipe for track days. I'm not selling it anymore. | ||
| Tatsu |
Well I had the RACE ECM on the bike. I never took it off after I installed the tfi. Here's what I do know. The bike pulls in all gears right up to the red line. All the sputtering I had in the low RPMs with the race ECM are gone. I guess I could swap out the stock ECM for the race one, but to tell you the truth I don't think it's going to be better. What really needs to be done to test things out is a TFI run with a stock setup. Then add mods and do runs. For example.. Run 1: TFI, Stock ecm, aftermarket pipe, stock filter. Run 2: TFI, Race ecm, aftermarket pipe, stock filter. ETC... I have done the following mods... Drummer pipe, race ecm, TFI, drilled airbox, race filter and removed the snorkel. I have a 12R. I can say for certain that the bike is much better than it was stock, that's for sure. Maybe I will go out and put the stock ecm back on, just to see if there is a difference. Unless someone has done it already, but to be honest I like it the way it is now. | ||
| Rigga |
tatsu..... this was my plan,i currently have just the race kit fitted to my 03 xb9s..sitting in the garage is a jardine pipe and a modified 12 airbox cover and a home made heat blanket/barrier..currently the bike is at the dealers having most of the gearbox replaced but am due to pick it up the early part of this week.....i know a local dyno operator who set my supermoto up for me who knows his stuff and was planning to try to get a block of three dyno runs booked up for the following. 1, as the bike is now with the race kit fitted 2, with the jardine pipe fitted and the modified 12 airbox and heat barrier to see what differences this would give over my current set up......this would obviously be after enough time for the ecm to re learn itself to the new pipe and more air flow to the motor. 3, with tfi fitted and air ratio meter stuck up the silencer to check on the standard dobeck settings and to see if it can be tweaked to the optimum settings now obviously this will cost so really wanted to know if the race em and tfi was the prefered way to go or not....dont want to go through all this to then have to fork out more money for another run with the standard ecm fitted,even though its a straight forward swop over of bits as it shouldnt req a tps reset once done | ||
| Tatsu |
There you go! } From what I understand once you have the TPS reset done on the ECM (either race or stock) you don't need it again for you bike. I guess for me it run be a run: All mods with Race ECM vs All the mods, stock ECM and TFI vs All the mods, race ECM and TFI That's the dyno run I would like to see and would be the one to give the Race ECM owners the most information. | ||
| Opto |
From what I picked up from earlier TFI threads the TFI was developed with a stock ecm, and that the race ecm could be used but no guarantees on how it goes. Personally I would use the stock ecm as the designers intended, but that's just one opinion. Until someone does some dyno tuning runs its a pretty dry argument. Also I would expect the best settings on the TFI for the 2 ecms would be slightly different. The bottom line seems to be that once you deviate from OEM exhaust/intake systems the fuel map in the ecm becomes less than optimal. Other feedback I'm also eager to hear about is fuel mileage on long distance cruise runs, and if the AFV (adaptive fuel value) in the ecm changes radically after the TFI installation. Overall the TFI definitely appears to be a very promising and much-needed plug-in black box for the XB and I'm really grateful to Dobeck for releasing it. | ||
| Craigster |
I think the big issue is that you can't remove fuel from the pulse width with the TFI....so the guys at Techlusion do not want to recommend the Race ECM and the TFI to start as if it's too rich for your combo you can't lean out. | ||
| Newxb9er |
Thanks for the help. I'll stick with my stock ECM. I'm getting the TFI and D&D this week, so I can't wait for this rain to stop, so I can paint my bike, and put everything on it! 2006 is going to be a great year! | ||
| Tatsu |
Okay, I had a little time to burn today and the weather was good. I decided to check this out.... first I used the MK1-SOTA-Dyno(Seat of the •••••). First run Six miles: (Stock ECM) Bike runs like a scalded cat! (Pulls hard, throttle response is good, got the engine light cause the stepper motor is removed,low idle kinda all over the place, but I'll contribute that to not running the ECM over some distance- overall not bad) Second run Six Miles; (RACE ECM)Bike runs like a scalded cat... with a stick jam up it's •••••.(Pulls hard, throttle response is excellent, no check light,low idle rock solid.) Tatsu says.. he's running the Race ECM.. RACE ECM and TFI make for big smiles on the XB12R. Warning your Mileage may vary.. and if you have the bucks... do a real dyno run. (Message edited by tatsu on January 03, 2005) | ||
| Trenchtractor  |
 XB12S/R, K&N, no Air Box, 5h1te muffler that got tossed in the bin after this run... Dyno Jet dyno. This is two separate runs, both identical with the exception that the red run is the stock ECM, the blue run is the race ECM. So you can see there is a difference in the shape of the curve. The way I understand it, Dobeck programmed the TFi to fix up the stock curve, and you can see that while there is more fuel everywhere using the race ECM, there is more added in some places than others... So I think the risk may be that the TFi will add a little too much fuel in a couple of places... That's not to say don't do it, but that is the reasoning behind Dobeck not recommending the race ECM, if I understand them correctly. | ||
| Tatsu |
We need someone with access to a dyno to so a .. Stock ECM with TFI vs. Race ECM with TFI to settle this once and for all. WOOHOOOOO! | ||
| Trenchtractor |
You can hand out the ready neddies for the dyno, Tatsu... 3 posts in less than 3 days about the dyno... Ease up. Or you could wait until my bank balance recovers from Xmas... hen I'll do a comparison. | ||
| Craigster |
Let's see, we have the UK, Australia, The Netherlands, and Hawaii and California on this thread. I've got the Dyno but I'm in New Hampshire...... You'd think there would be someone local to me looking to figure this out. Or someone local to you folks with a dyno. | ||
| Tatsu |
Not to many Buell riders here. I think I've seen 3 total. The dealer just moved into a new building and they don't have their dyno set up. I'm still looking. | ||
| Rigga |
ok i got my bike back from the dealers yesterday...also got a reply to the mail i sent to george at dobeck.... they only really reccomend the road ecm due to the fact that was what the tfi was developed with,and the fuelling map was set against what the road ecm delivers..... the race ecm dumps extra fuel everywhere and not just where its needed ala the tfi.... having said that i intend to fit a better flowing silencer (jardine) than the race pipe and also fit a cut away 12 air box cover so the extra air flow into and out of the motor might req greater fueling anyway.... im gonna stick with the race ecm,get that dynoed and if it runs too rich in parts of the rev range ill try the road ecm..... ive got both and a simple swop over | ||
| Tatsu |
Keep us posted Rigga.. your run will determine if I put the stock ECM back into the bike. | ||
| Trenchtractor |
'they only really reccomend the road ecm due to the fact that was what the tfi was developed with,and the fuelling map was set against what the road ecm delivers..... the race ecm dumps extra fuel everywhere and not just where its needed ala the tfi....' Or what I said 4 posts ago... 'The way I understand it, Dobeck programmed the TFi to fix up the stock curve, and you can see that while there is more fuel everywhere using the race ECM, there is more added in some places than others... So I think the risk may be that the TFi will add a little too much fuel in a couple of places...' I even posted a chart to display the different shape of the stock vs race ECM curves... (Message edited by trenchtractor on January 05, 2005) | ||
| Rigga |
trench...... not that i didnt believe you,but i had already sent a mail to dobeck and just thought id post up his reply,my concern was that although they reccomend the stock ecm ,was that for an xb with no mods on it?,race kit fitted? or one with cut air box and freer breathing pipe? ..the extra air flow generated by the last option might have seen a situation where the standard dobeck settings could not give you the increased fuelling the motor req? my question was whether in that situation the extra fuel the race ecm provided over stock,was indeed a beter starting point | ||
| Trenchtractor |
Same questions I asked them months ago... But I'm not saying you're slow...  They are not very impressed with the race ECM over at Dobeck... In fact their response to me sounded as if they couldn't understand why anyone would EVER want to install the Pro Series ECM... Having said all that, they provide the one set of base settings for all Buells post 2000, so basically it's better, but you'd wanna get a dyno, or use the same settings as someone with the same mods on the same bike as you... I know the stock map of a 9 has to be different to the stock map of a 12, different to the map of the race ecm for either bike, different for a bike that's outside the buell OEM or Pro Series kit, so when they say they are base settings, they mean go and have it tuned if you want to see it's full potential... the thing is, the TFi is PROGRAMED to make adjustments (through the pots) based on what Dobeck knows about the stock ECM. Since the stock and Pro Series ECMs have different SHAPE curves, it doesn't take much to see what Dobeck is concerned about. But it all comes back to one thing, find as many people with the same bike and mods as you and split the dyno tune on one bike so you all can use the same settings, rather than just waiting for someone else to do it... | ||
| Bombardier |
I dont know about you guys but when I get the urge to mod my bike to go faster/develop more power I look at the money I would need to spend and then spend it on better tyres and better handling. I then attack the corners faster and this increases the fun factor to the max. I am still waiting for my Buell but I do know that when I test rode an 03 9r with a race kit it took 3 days for my face to stop aching from the grinning I was doing whilst riding it. | ||
| Ingemar |
You hit the nail on the head Bombardier. But what comes after the tires wrt handling? Suspension? I had that set up by an expert and I believe that's as good as it gets. Getting better suspension parts will get you well into 4-digit $$$. Bucks to performance, the techlusion is a good deal, as is the airbox mod. The techlusion doesn't add much (if any) on top, but it dramatically improves bottom end and midrange, and throttle response. | ||
| M1combat  |
Yeah... suspension is really where it's at. We have a setup that is quite capable now, but it's like comparing a Corvette to a Ferrari F50. It's not the power exclusively that makes the F50 so much faster around a track... | ||
| Cataract2 |
Bucks to performance, the techlusion is a good deal, as is the airbox mod. The techlusion doesn't add much (if any) on top, but it dramatically improves bottom end and midrange, and throttle response. This is where the race ECM can come in handy. With the race ECM the idle to mid range are where you don't get much benefit. The race ECM helps with the top end. The TFI clears up the idle to mid range. Least, that's my understanding. I have the race ECM on my bike and the top end pulls like crazy. I'm waiting on the TFI to see how that helps with the idle to mid. | ||
| Tatsu |
Idle to mid pulls hard too. From Idle to Redline.. pulls hards. Race ECM and TFI. |
