| Author | Message | ||
     Surveyor  |
Anyone know if the stock ECM can be reprogrammed and if so where do I get the software? If not is there a programmable replacement available? | ||
| Ted  |
yes. | ||
| Ted |
Oh ...alright then http://www.techlusion.com/ | ||
| Surveyor |
Ted, thanks for that......eventually! As far as I know the Techlusion unit is not fully programmeable, it can only richen the mixture? Don't people use it in sequence with stock or race ECMs? | ||
| Buellman39 |
yes | ||
| Surveyor |
Here we go again........OK I'm waiting. | ||
| Ted |
lol, ya you're right its used to adjust the efi. They say its setup to use with the stock ecu. I know a few people on this board are using it. Try a search on this X board to see what they think. | ||
| Ingemar  |
The TFI works with the stock ecm and indeed only adds fuel. It is not programmable, it adjusts FI with 3 knobs. I understand that in extreme cases it can't even add enough. In that particular case Dobeck was so kind to reprogram the unit so its range for adding fuel doubled or something like that. It is my understanding that the TFI unit is meant for a bike with fairly standard bolt on performance parts. On the other hand it is an extremely user friendly unit. Trojan mentioned a possible new unit being developed in the UK that is a little more savvy than the TFI. | ||
| Trenchtractor  |
In the installation instructions, Dobeck say they can replace/reprogram the TFi ROM to double the adjustment, but that is a customer order type deal, where if you find the adjustment of the stock TFi is not enough for your application. They also claim that the TFi is good for all types of modifications, including headwork and increased capacity. The standard ECM's are very lean. The fact that the TFi can only ADD fuel is really a mute point, since the A/F curve needs fattening up anyway, it's not like yo are going to want to remove fuel. | ||
| Surveyor |
My XB9R is running lean below 5000rpm (not good if you ride in the city) and rich above 5500rpm. I'm running the stock ECM with K+N, Sebring Muffler, 12 Lid, and snorkle removed. I appreciate that the Techlusion unit will deal with the lean mix but can't see how it will help with the rich mix. A programmeable ECM on the other hand would allow me to remap it to get the best from the bike....wouldn't it? | ||
| Ingemar |
It is the first time I hear of an XB running rich. How rich is it? How reliable is the A/F ratio measurement that was done? Another option is the Power Commander III. I understand a programmable ECM is what you want. That's what we all want, but I don't think it's going to be available to us mere mortals. Talk to Matt at Trojan, he may have what you want. | ||
| Surveyor |
Thanks for that Ingemar, I'm a bit wary of the gas analysis that was done on my local dealers Dyno.....he couldn't get a reading when the stock muffler was fitted and the readings I eventually got were after I fitted the Sebring muffler so I have nothing to compare the rich reading with. I hear what you are saying about the ECM and I think I'll try the Techlusion unit.I didn't know that there was a power commander available for the XB9R ? | ||
| Whitetrashxb |
hey guys, when y'all are referring to running rich/lean, is that in reference to an optimal ratio of 14:1 throughout the entire RPM range? I just want to make sure i'm following correctly. thanks, james | ||
| Ingemar |
Then maybe it wasn't done correctly? What was the A/F ratio? Do you have the chart to post? If not, do you remember the A/F ratio? The PC3 for the older buells is used on the xb. I'm not sure what it takes to make it fit though. I asume you have the race ecm installed? I wouldn't think it will run too rich with the stock ecm and I would install the stock ecm with the techlusion. | ||
| Ingemar |
James, My idea of rich is somewhere between 12 - 13:1. Lean is between 15 - 16:1. Between 13 and 15:1 is about right I guess. Below 12 I'd say is TOO rich, and above 16 TOO lean. The terms "rich" or "lean" I think will always be vage, since it needs a reference point. If you're trying to achieve a stoichiometric ratio, 14:1 would be too rich. If you want optimum power, 14:1 would be too lean. | ||
| Glitch  |
Mine is running at 18:1 from idle to closed loop, then it goes to 13:1. Looks like open loop isn't so good. I've got the Race ECM, cut up 12 air box, and a pipe. After I found out how lean I was running I put the original 9 air box back on, until I get the TFI unit. | ||
| Whitetrashxb |
thanks for the clarification  | ||
| Ingemar |
I don't know at which point 'lean' becomes a problem. Maybe someone else knows. At some point you'll burn holes in your valves or pistons...or so I've heard. | ||
| Bud  |
btw, surveyor theres a reprogramable ecu for sale, you only need a racing licence and a bunch off greenbacks to order it from BMC gr,b (Message edited by bud on December 29, 2004) | ||
| Craigster |
Part throttle light loads will do little damage to an engine even if it's lean enough to misfire. Lean under load will create the holes in your piston that you worry about. 13-14 to one will make best power...some engines 12.5 :1 depends on many factors. I usually set cruise for 14:1 and fatten up high RPM High load to 13:1 | ||
| Trenchtractor |
Surveyor, I'd like to see the dyno chart with the A/F curv posted here... You wil quickly learn from the board regulars weather you should be concerned about the richness up top. There have been concerns posted about the PC and the DDFI learning the PC adjustment out... Some say it does this, others say it doesn't. I say it's something to research before you buy one. The TFi negates this using it's 'Stealth technology'... | ||
| Bud |
Ok, here we go, Ill ask it again, now that all the Fi tech’s are looking , Bike ; xb9 punched out to 1160cc, 12 header/ airbox , expansion exhaust , pc 3 with Hiperf. O2 sensor as a piggyback to a stock ecu. I had the bike adjusted ( pc3 ) on a braked dyno, I’m a daily driver for 15 miles to work and 15 miles back , bike only just gets @ running temp. when I reach my destination so no wild throttle or wheelys , just easy coasting with the traffic. Now the question, I have a feeling that the oem ecu is leaning out the mixture , calculating it back to the optimum for mpg/ emission , thereby overruling/overcoming the pc3 setting for optimum performance. I have no way off making this hard , as I’m not able to read the af % from the ecu yet , But when I fiddled a bit with the pc3 , giving it a notch or two richer , I found some power back , as I never noticed it missing because the process is very gently. Is a tfi box better in this ( holding the a/f to 13,8:1 ) Just pondering, it’s no big deal to reset every thing every month or so , but the question is spooking my mind for a while it's just like trench sayes. Gr, B | ||
| Ingemar |
Bud, If you like, we can throw my TFI on yours some time and see how it works for you. Be prepared though as I suspect you're gonna spend another 180 bucks or so  | ||
| Craigster |
If the Tech adjusted the bins in the closed loop area of the PCIII grid then, yes the ECM is going to attempt to correct fueling. Even with the DJ O2, the stoch ECMs appear to notice the richness down low. This is where the techlusion shines as it puts out a false stoich signal to the ECM....hence the ECM is none the wiser. I agree with Ingemar, you'll probably be sold on the TFI unit after trying it. | ||
| Surveyor |
Ingemar, I found my Dyno print out (Advanced Dyno Station) and here are the details; (for some reason the X axis is in mph instead of RPM) A/F Ratios @ tickover; 18:1 @ 42mph; 14.25:1 @ 50mph; 18:1 @ 75mph; 10.25:1 @ 90mph; 13:1 after that it stays in the 13/14:1 range. As you can see the bike is running both lean and rich with the baffles in place. I also did a run with the baffles removed and mixture range is much better (between 13.5:1 and 16:1) but is too loud even for the track. From 45mph to 62.5 mph the mixture is in the 16 to 18:1 range. The power curve dip corresponds to the period when the mixture is too rich (between 65 and 90mph) So I need to richen the mixture at low revs and lean it further up the rev range so as to smooth the power curve. I don't think a Techlusion unit on it's own will solve my problem? Maybe a race ECM is the way to go? BTW the max bhp was 78@7060rpm with baffles and 81.5@125mph(?) without. Torque readings were 63ft./lbs.@6062rpm with baffles and 66 @ 5890 without. | ||
| Glitch |
Surveyor, My race ECM runs at 18 from idle to about 3500rpm then goes to 13 the rest of the way up to red line. Sounds like that's what you're looking for. Then after the TFI all's left to tune is the lower rpms, the open loop part. But, since you're racing, I doubt you're too worried about 3500 and under? | ||
| Craigster |
Advanced Dyno Station....ahh! Someone has a Dynostar dyno near you? Who or what shop is this? Very nice. Did the tech not hook up the tack pick up? The reason I ask, is the Dynostar dynos can do a rpm vs mph cal for noisy ignitions and bikes with inaccessable plugs. If you back for TFI mapping have him do the cal. and plot the RPM. If he has any questions about this procedure he can contact me and I can walk him through it. Good luck, | ||
| Bud |
craigster, i'll post my pc3 map, when i get home i'm was already ready to buy a fi-piggy back box from rapid ( italian and digital ) if they market one, becuose i had some one explain to me that a pc3 is not the way to go, being analog and 3 fields but on my mate's bike it did run great, further more i kinda really like the self adjusting for weather changes or going to the mountens. i think i better build my engine back to getter, don't ask  | ||
| Bud |
http://home.zonnet.nl/firebolt/mapxb12rss.map right click/ and save it's my pc3 map seems there's noting wrong with it ? me thinks,i'll be traying the tfi never the less thanks for the input, and for the offer ingemar (Message edited by bud on December 30, 2004) | ||
| Ingemar |
Darn it Bud, that engine is still apart? What have you been doing all that time? Better hurry man, riding season is starting before you know it | ||
| Bud |
What have you been doing all that time sitting on my hands..traying not to go crazy and living on water en ravioli, saving up for the rebuild but the waiting is almost over  | ||
| Ingemar |
If you need a hand, let me know. | ||
| Surveyor |
Craigster, yes it's a Dynostar rig and it's in Dublin Ireland....let me know if your bringing your bike over we can get a decent Guiness nearby. I'm going to get the bike re-dynoed as I'm not confident about the last test, I'll bring your post with me. I'm not confident about the Techlusion unit yet either so we'll see what the outcome of the test is before I part with more $$$$. Glitch, you are dead right, what I want is a progressive and smooth power curve, I know constant A/F ratio isn't the full answer but it's got to be better than what I've got - my Dyno Graph looks more like a sysmology graph. Thanks for all the comments guys. | ||
| Craigster |
Surveyor, Sounds great! Guiness rules the planet. The Dynostars are nive units...very little wheel slip, and infinitely adjustable load. They'll get your map as good as it will ever be. I know the plugs are hard to get to on XBs so if they do a mph vs RPM cal they can measure your bike quickly. The very low wheel slip on the Dynostar drum keeps this accurate. Bud, I see they changed your map in the closed loop area. I know you have the DJ O2 sensor, but I also see the offset is set at Maximum for 'O2 Closed Loop Offset' value. Too bery very honest, I'm not sure how well the stock ECM is handling the PCIII's information. For shites and grins, you could lower the offset and take a few commuter days (perhaps the closed loop will retune?) and then immediately raise the value and see if there is any difference in performance. Just guessing here, so please don't take it as scripture. Good luck and let us know how you make out. |
