| Author | Message | ||
     Surveyor  |
I've read the previous threads on this subject and to my mind people are getting too wrapped up in the science. Because you can adjust everything doesn't mean you should!!! The best advice you will ever get (and you'll get it from everyone who has ever prepped a race bike) ADJUST ONE THING AT A TIME!!! The Buell XB9R factory settings are pretty good even for the track. I'm 210 so I upped the rear preload 2 notches and it's fine. I carry brakes pretty far into the corner (ie, beyond the turn in point) and this can lead to chatter up to the turn in but increasing the rebound damping eliminates this NB. REBOUND not preload as suggested elsewhere. If you carry brakes deep into the corner this makes the XB9r pretty hard to turn but you will find that a pretty radical off the bike style will get it to turn OK but you need to 'get off' the bike early on the approach to the corner - you need knee sliders to corner this bike. The stock Dunlop207s are not good if you ride hard on the track and the front will overheat quickly and give up suddenly so beware, the back is not so bad. I run my tyre pressures about 2ft/lbs below standard but in hot weather (rare here in Ireland) you may need to run lower pressures. In my opinion the Buell doesn't need a steering damper even with a short wheel base it's pretty stable. I find that clutchless gear changes are a no-no with the Buell however the box and clutch work well on the down shift and there is no tendency for the back to lock up (no need for a slipper clutch) Just my thoughts lets hear what others think. | ||
| M1combat  |
You are correct... The XB w/ stock setup and tires will force you to ride properly to make the bike really work. This has been said before (not that it's a bad thing that it's said again). Personally I found that the bike dives under braking a little more than I like but that's almost completely negated by using the rear brakes "properly", just like the hanging off. I don't seem to have any trouble with clutchless gear changes at all, but I don't like them anyway just because it's my street bike and it has to last. I've downshifted twice w/o the clutch on accident (third to second both times) and the bike handled it flawlessly. | ||
| Hkwan |
Couple of points I agree: You got to get off the brake earlier in order to set up for a turn properly. The bike is extremely stable for its geometry. | ||
| Blake |
Never downshift without the clutch on purpose. Upshifts are okay if you time it right. Downshifts no. On the track, if you want to go quickly you'll brake all the way to the apex. Coasting is not allowed.  | ||
| Hkwan |
I wasn't really talking about coasting. I'm talking about doing all the slow down before the apex. Brake early enough so that you are done braking and just be approaching the apex slower than when you are going straight. Then afterward, just take that turn. Question, Blake, if you brake all the way to the apex, when you release the brake the second before taking the turn, won't your front end more or less comes up and unsettle your bike a little bit? | ||
| Blake |
Not if you release the brake smoothly. Braking to the apex means you've already taken half the turn. You definitely don't want to all of a sudden release the brake, no matter if you are leaned over or straight up. You wanna be smooth letting off the brake, just like you need to be smooth getting back on the throttle as you hit the apex. On the track you wanna be either on the brake or on the gas, one of the two, all the time. It takes a LOT of practice. I need lots more practice myself. Note... not all turns are the same, not all are brake to the apex type turns. But you were talking about braking as you come into a turn so braking to the apex likely applies for that scenario. | ||
| Ingemar  |
On the track you wanna be either on the brake or on the gas, one of the two, all the time. I've been meaning to ask this before. With rally, there's a technique called left foot braking. You brake while staying on the gas to keep the rpms up while braking causes the car to oversteer. Of course on a bike this won't apply the same, but doesn't braking change steering geometry? I was wondering if the pro's would use that to their advantage in some way ... Not that I am ever gonna try that out though ... | ||
| Brupska |
I am new to track riding so I will just relay my ideas. They may not be right. On the 207's I noticed that I lost some traction on hot days with 30 lbs front and rear. As for braking, I brake as much as I can before I lean into the corner. I do use a little rear brake also. It seems to help turn in. I have noticed some stand up with out rear brakes. My suspension settings are factory setups with my weight. My only problem is getting passed on the straight by those bikes that I passed in the corners lol. | ||
| Lovematt  |
yes...pros use brakes and gas at the same time and I have tried to do the same. In the practicing I have done on the track it works very well. I also regularly do this on the street with agressive riding...just do everything smoothly and slowly. Basically when braking into a turn the front of course gets used more but through the apex of the turn I leave some back brake while applying the throttle. I find this smooths out the power delivery and reduces much of the kicking. Once the power is consistent then I back off the rear brake. Once out of the turn there is no rear brake at all. The amount of brake I am talking about is just barely dragging....like enough to just start to notice the slow down if you let off the throttle. | ||
| Blake |
I've been thinking about getting rid of my rear brake for the track. I never use it. I know it is advantageous to do so as described above, but my poor brain is already at its limits trying to hit the braking point, blipping/clutching/downshifting, hitting the turn-in while easing off the brake then smoothly rolling on the throttle while hitting the apex... all while trying to ignore the flesh-ripping dagger embedded in my left thigh in the form of the charley-horse from hell. LOL. But man, I do love to race.  | ||
| Ingemar |
huh? flesh ripping dagger in your thigh? charley horse from hell? Sure sounds funny but what the hell are ya talkin' about?  | ||
| Surveyor |
Just to clarify my original post in the light of the good comments from all. By braking into the corner I mean getting your serious braking done by your turn in point and carrying reduced braking to the apex, I also find trailing a little rear brake keeps things under control (most of the time) Blipping on the downshift is vital if you want to avoid locking up the rear. Backing it in to corners on the back brake is way beyond my ability. Surprised nobody has mentioned front end chatter, it was a big problem for me on the factory settings but a little more rebound damping dialed it out. Brupska, watch those 207s they'll bite you if they get too hot.....I speak from bitter and sore experience!! | ||
| Hkwan |
Surveyor, I meant to ask about the frt end chatter earlier. When you say "little more rebound damping" you are talking about the front's rebound, correct? Also, when you say more, do you mean adjusting counter-clockwise or clockwise? | ||
| Ingemar |
More means stiffer and would be clockwise. Make small changes though. Does a steering damper help against front end chatter? | ||
| Hkwan |
Rebound damping: This affects the speed at which a shock rebounds, which allows the wheel to return to the ground after hitting a bump. Front Rebound: Increase the damping to help the bike hold a line, and help front stability. Too much will gradually jack the front down as each bump compresses the front further and further. Also it will cause loss of feel and a tendency for the front to wash-out. Decrease to help the front react to bumps, and to keep it in contact with the tarmac. Too little will decrease front stability. Rear Rebound: Increasing will help to stop the rear bouncing around, and the front "pushing" in corners. To much will cause front end shake and overwork the rear tyre. Decreasing will smoothen the ride on a bumpy road, and decrease the rears tendency to step out on a bumpy corner. Too little rebound will cause running wide on corners. I've cut n pasted the definition from my previous post: "Two Suspension questions". Looks like to reduce the front chatter (if there is any), the rear's rebound should be decreased as well. I guess we just have to play with increasing the front of reducing the rear. | ||
| Blake |
Ingemar, A "charley horse" is a cramp, a really painful one. Does sound comical too. | ||
| Ingemar |
hkwan, This may help too. | ||
| Surveyor |
Hkwan and Ingemar, I think you guys covered everything between you. a steering damper will not have any effect on chatter which is a vertical motion and a steering damper deals with unwanted lateral motion. Remember ADJUST ONE THING AT A TIME and keep adjustments small, you may later increase your rear preload and find that front end chatter returns.... it takes time to set the bike up bit by bit but the result is better. | ||
| Brupska |
Thanx Surveyor, The 207's are pretty much toast after three good track days. I just got back from my dealer in Bloomington, IN. They are doing my 2500 mile service since I have more money than time LOL. I can't wait till the next track day this spring. brupska |
