| Author |
Message |
    
Henrik
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 08:47 am: | 
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analysis paralysis
I absolutely love that phrase - Thanks Bomber.
Knox were one of the first manufacturers to be tested and approved. They used to be sold through Action Station, who then made a rip-off copy and sold it as CE approved wo/ testing. slime indeed. But Knox is still true to the cause.
There are many more CE approved back protectors out there. At this point, with so many new superior materials available, I think the manufacturers ought to shoot for the Level 2 certification rather than the more commonly available Level 1. So far I have only come across 2 Level 2 certified protectors.
Btw. tail bone protection is a good thing, but you should test out the protector on the bike to make sure "the tail" is not pressing on something that will become uncomfortable. I wore my race protector under an Aerostitch for a 2000 mile long weekend, and my butt was numb for weeks after. Your seat, bike ergos and seating position will determine if this could become an issue for you.
Henrik
(Message edited by Henrik on November 02, 2004) |
Bomber
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 09:32 am: |
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Henrick -- you're welcome, of course -- unfortunately, I learned the phrase at work ;-{
thanks for all the data -- though I'm loathe to have yet another loose piece of gear (rather have em built in), I'm thinkin the joy of being able to dance at my daughter's wedding (someday, no rush, mind you) will far outweigh the hassle |
Jeremyh
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 10:31 am: |
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don't let my post confuse you guys, i too choose to wear leather and armour. I will still consider myself messed up if i go down.
#1 because its going to feel like crap doing so
#2 because my bike is all dikkked up
#3 my wife would kill me if i wrecked anyway |
Henrik
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 10:45 am: |
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Bomber - one of those Level 2 certified back protectors come as either a self contained unit or in a form that will fit into a jacket.
http://www.johnsonleather.com/armor/
May require a bit of tweaking of the mounting options inside the jacket, but should be doable.
Henrik |
Daves
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 02:54 pm: |
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OK,
The Icon stuff is,
Armor vest 100.00
Badweb price 90.00
Timax Jacket 215.00
Badweb price is 193.50
Mil spec vest 50.00
Badweb 45.00 |
Lord_deathscyte
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 07:45 pm: |
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Hey Daves can you get the knox armor.
Mark |
Coolice
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 09:04 pm: |
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Henrik can you keep this thread updated? I am very interested in the back protecter and the CE standards are a good idea, just like Snell. I have a Buell jacket(leather) and "tested" it last year at Road America. It had pads in the shoulder which saved my shoulder from injury, but not my collarbone, shoulder blade, or a couple of ribs. I feel that if I had a better protector on my injuries would have been less. So keep me informed on your choices ok? Thanx |
Shred
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 10:55 pm: |
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Great investment!!! I have a mini-spine protector. It is about 3/4 of full length. I will soon buy a new full size or armor vest that I would have to try on I think it might be to much. Some restrictions on movement? Full leather suits and good boots are a great safety investment. My boots saved my lower leg and foot in sept. at the running of the ridge. Ride safe!!! |
Wyckedflesh
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 11:20 pm: |
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After my test of the Joe Rocket Razor gear on gravel I have new respect for Ballistic type jackets. As I was laying there for a second, I realised I had instinctively rolled myself onto my stomache while I was sliding. So yes I too am in the market as they say. |
Henrik
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 10:10 am: |
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Coolice; You may have read the links I posted in another thread, but here they are again. I think they're a good read (a bit dry, granted  ), and a very good basis for buying decisions:
Here's a lot of good basic back protector information, including most of the brands out there.
Copy and paste this link into your browser address line:
www.wpi.edu/Pubs/ETD/Available/etd-0430104-131552/unrestricted/mcarboni.pdf
Read the first sections, describing the anatomy of structures liable to get injured from impact to the back. Also read and understand what type of injuries a back protector will help protect against, and which it will not.
Right now I'm deciding between the full armor shirt with back protector from www.highvelocitygear.com or the shirt/back protector/padded shorts from www.johnsonleather.com/armor/
I ended up buying the High Velocity Gear first; The back protector is nice, simple and seems very well made. The shell is plastic with articulating joints, that allows rounding of the back as well as some side-to-side leaning at the waist level. Any backwards bending of the back is resisted by the shell, so a more leaned forward riding position would seem to be optimal. Their back protector uses a combination of Astrosorb and EVA foam to achieve the EN 1621-2 Level 2 certification.
The shoulder/elbow armor in their shirt is EN 1621-1 certified. The shirt is made from a spandex like material that stretches and provides a good fit. I like the addition of the chest protector, although it is not tested (no CE standards for chest protectors), and the all-in-one approach, which would make the full jacket useful for dirt and fire road riding as well.
I also just received the T-Pro back protector and padded shorts (long story ...) and from a quick look and try-on, these look like great quality items. The back protector is EN 1621-2 Level 2 certified and was recommended by "Ride" magazine. They use a material called "Armour Flex" for padding. It has no real "hard shell", but the Armour Flex material itself is quite hard/firm, while still being very shape-able, and seems to mold to your body.
The T-Pro Armor Flex extremity armor (elbow/shoulder) is also EN 1621-1 certified and the 4-layer protectors are rated as Level 3 Extreme Performance, transferring less than 35 kN of a 100 Joule impact.
The T-Pro armour can be fitted/modified to fit into your current leathers, but you will need to send your leathers to them to have the protectors made to fit.
I also looked at the Spidi back protector, until I realized it was only EN 1621-2 Level 1 certified.
Aside from EN 1621-2 Level 2 certification, I was looking for a protector that did not use a crushable core for impact protection (such as helmets do). Reasons being; 1) in case of a crash, I might hit the same spot twice, in which case the impact protection would be lessened by the first hit. 2) I don't baby my gear, and in packing to/from track the protector might get bent/warped/crushed under other gear. And while I don't know if that would compromise protection, I don't want to take the chance.
Keep in mind though, that all protector manufacturers claim only "1 hit" protection. However, the foam based protectors have been tested (not officially) to not significantly loose impact protection after the first hit.
So that's where I'm at right now. I'll keep you posted if I surface any further info.
Henrik |
Barkandbite
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 12:13 pm: |
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Henrik:
It appears that the protector I purchased (AlpineStars Tech) which is shown above is
EN 1621-2 certified, but they don't say whether it's level 2 or not.
Here's the specs from their site:
Cross Torsion Linkage (patented) shock absorber system / flexible central linkage adapts and moves with the body / expanded polymer foam for impact speed reduction / dual density foam for low impact loads / comfortable and soft fabric liner / CE prEN 1621-2 certified blade and waist extensions / perforations to keep you cool and comfortable |
Henrik
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 01:09 pm: |
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Bark; It's sometimes a bit hazy even when manufacturers mention their certification. Here's a quote from the link I posted above about the back protector certification:
>>>>>>>>>
The CE BACK PROTECTOR standard is labeled EN1621-2. The test is performed with a 5kg “kerbstone” dropped from one meter to create the test impact energy of 50 Joules. The standard contains two levels of force transmission performance. 18kN passes LEVEL 1 "basic" compliance and 9kN passes LEVEL 2 "high performance" compliance. So LEVEL 2 protectors allow 50% less force to reach the spine/ribs.
>>>>>>>>>
According to license2ill in that link, your Alpinestar Tech protector is Level 1 certified. I haven't checked myself. What you can do, is try to get the certification number from Alpinestar.
This is the address Alpinestar lists for information regarding their protective gear information:
customer.us1@alpinestars.com
I contacted Pete Doughty at SATRA: PETED@satra.co.uk for information about the High Velocity Gear certifications. Please get the certification number first. I have a feeling they can't/wont go looking for tests just based on manufacturer and product name.
Besides, Alpinestar should have that information available IMHO
Henrik |
Fran_dog
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 06:30 pm: |
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Henrik: Does the High Velocity gear fit well under your jacket or the top of your suit? Do they have any sizing info?
Daves: Could you work a BadWeb deal for the High Velocity gear, if a few people were interested?
I also like the all in one approach of the High Velocity. |
Henrik
| | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 08:49 am: |
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Fran; I just received the Velocity Gear the other day, and there were some issues with the location of the elbow armor, that I'm trying to work out with the company. They're is being very responsive and helpful.
That said - I haven't tried it on under a jacket, and my suit is in Jersey. Without a jacket, the suit fits well and doesn't seem intrusive. For street riding I would absolutely wear it under a jacket.
As mentioned before, the back protector is a bit pre-curved, so when I'm standing up it arches out from my back. However, if I sit and "round" my back a bit, like I likely would on a bike, it tucks in nicely.
I'll try to get some pictures taken this weekend.
Henrik |
Daves
| | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 08:58 am: |
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Pictures and a link to their website?
Maybe I can cut a deal with them for you guys.
Dave |
Mikej
| | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 09:05 am: |
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Just curious how my Dainese vest/meshtop armor rates. It's the same model that Reg used to wear a few years ago. I don't wear it much under the jacket because it makes me feel like I'm wearing football pads. But that's probably better than wearing a body cast I suppose.
I think I've got some springtime purchases to plan for. |
Henrik
| | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 12:35 pm: |
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Links to my 2 current contenders:
http://www.highvelocitygear.com
http://www.johnsonleather.com
Mike; you will likely notice that the Velocity Gear jacket looks almost identical to the Dainese jacket. It's a standard mold for the plastic, that Velocity Gear used for cost savings. The padding however is different, in that Dainese use crushable aluminum honey comb construction for shock absorption, whereas Velocity use Astrosorb. Velocity gear has Level 2 certification for their back protector whereas the Dainese back protector is Level 1 certified.
Henrik |
Mikej
| | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 02:39 pm: |
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Thanks. |
Henrik
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 09:49 am: |
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I posted an "initial impression" review of the High Velocity Gear jacket w/ back protector here
Henrik |
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