| Author | Message | ||
     Canxb |
Hello everyone, Well, I have the dreaded base gasket leak and am just starting the process of putting together the required materials to do the job myself. This will be the biggest job to date I have ever done on a motorcycle so I am looking to have all the information I need prior to starting to minimize the amount of hiccups. Getting parts and such here in Canada can be quite the challenge so I need to make sure everything is right before I start. The first item on the list was the Cometic Top End Gasket kit. The popular consensus is that this is the way to go for this repair. I have also ordered a set of stands for the bike to support it while doing the job. My plan is to just leave the pistons in the cylinders and only remove one circlip and the wrist pin the jet the cylinder/piston combo off. So the questions... Can the base gaskets be replaced on both the front and rear cylinders by using the engine rotation method? Does this allow access to get everything out, replaced, and back in? Second, the Cometic gasket kit includes 4 Viton O-Rings and 8 Stud Washers. Are the 4 Viton O-rings for the pushrods? If so, should there not be 8 O-rings, and what exactly are the 8 Stud Washers for? Third, is this all that is recommended for the job, other than the required tools, or are there additional things that should be done or added to the task while I am in there. This is where I am at right now. Any additional advice or information is greatly appreciated. Right now I am a bit nervous and looking overwhelmed. If there are any step by step videos or sites (other than the manual which I do have) I would appreciate that as well. Regards, Joe | ||
| Griffmeister |
I just had to do the rear jug on my Uly. It can be done with the engine rotated, most of the work is done through the frame opening where the airbox sits when doing the rear. Be careful to just expose the wrist pin to remove it, the rings are not that far away. Use a new circlip going back together, these are one time use only. There are only four orings on the pushrod covers, they go at the top, the bottom has a gasket. The manual says to put the orings on the covers for assembly. This doesn't work so well. Put the orings in the head and lube them, they will slide nicely over the covers. The seal washers go under the four bolts that hold the rocker box cover on. You might want a long reach ball end Allen socket to properly torque the pushrod cover screws. A crows foot or similar extension is needed to torque the intake bolts. The exhaust gaskets are fun to install, make sure to clean the pocket they sit in real well. Take pictures as you take things off to rotate down. Hoses, wires and cables need to go back as they were. Real easy to get them out of place where they can get pinched, rub on something or get too close to the exhaust and burn. Oh yeah, mark the pushrods, the intake is a different length than the exhaust. Most of all, have fun! | ||
| Greg_e |
There is a cheap tool for exhaust gaskets from Jims, I picked one up for around $35 and it is worth every dime. Two sided depending on the gasket style, works on twin cams, EVO's, and should be fine on the Buells as well since they all take the same gaskets. http://www.automotivepartsfactory.com/p/Jims-Exhau st-Gasket-Installer-Tool-788-86888681.html?gclid=C NXV_LbznNQCFVhMDQodBv8JTQ Supposed to be used with a special rod to drive the gasket in, or with the exhaust flange nuts... I tried the nuts and it is not effective. Take a big socket extension, put it on the middle of the tool, and whack it with a wood or plastic mallet. Gasket goes right in with no deformations. I can check the size if someone wants to measure the exhaust port for me. | ||
| Canxb |
Thank you both for the replies. This may be a silly question but for things like the throttle body and intake manifold, do they need to be seperated or can they be kept as a unit for simplicity. Thank you also for the advice on the crows foot adapter and the ball end allen extension. From reading over the manual and the rotation write up on buellxb.com it doesn't seem impossible, but i don't think its going to be a cake walk. | ||
| Ducbsa |
This site has a lot of useful tips, I haven't tried searching it though: https://www.facebook.com/TwinMotorcyclesNL/photos/ a.929378957128935.1073742359.152776181455887/92938 0320462132/?type=3&theater https://www.facebook.com/pg/TwinMotorcyclesNL/photos/?tab=album&album_id=792261440840688 (Message edited by ducbsa on June 02, 2017) | ||
| Greg_e |
You really need to separate the throttle body from the manifold, but I think you can do this after rotating the motor. I remember some interference with something on the intake and frame, but I think it was just the rubber velocity stack. | ||
| Phelan |
Greg, only the 03 has a separate manifold and throttlebody. 04-up they are integrated into one unit. The 4 viton O-rings are for the tops of the pushrod tubes. Seat them squarely into the round countersink in the heads before installing. The base of the tubes use the rubber gaskets and Cometic doesn't make replacements for those. If they aren't ripped or cut, wash and reuse them, or order new ones from HD. Or better yet, if the pushrod bases aren't leaking, don't remove the pushrod bases. The 8 stud washers are to put under the bolts that hold the rockerbox covers in place. Make sure to disconnect both ends of the throttle cables and the lever end of the clutch cable before rotating the motor, or you will be re0lacing cables as well. Once you have the heads off and you are abiut to oull the wrist pin circlips from the primary side, make sure to stuff the crankcase openings with rags to make sure the circlip doesn't fall or fly in there, as they love to fly when removing them. As mentioned above, don't reuse any you remove. They are cheap and accessible from a dealer, same circlips used on Sportsters and Evos. If the wrist pins are stuck in the bores, I used the samllest collet of my blind hole bearing puller to tighten inside the wrist pin bore until it binds, and then it gives me leverage to pull them out, as sometimes (most of the time) burrs develop alongside the circlip and holds back the wrist pin from cleanly sliding out of the bore. You can borrow a blind hole bearing puller from many auto parts stores for free (credit card deposit), namely Autozone, which has always had one when I needed it. Also ideal for changing wheel bearings. I have since bought my own for convenience. | ||
| Canxb |
Thanks again folks. I'm printing all this off as it comes in. So, do i need to disassemble the manifold from the throttle body or can it be left together? The pushrod bases are not leaking. So for this i literally just don't remove them, and just pull out the pushrods when the rocker boxes are off and remove the long black covers as well? Thanks again all! | ||
| Canxb |
Ok, just got my Cometic gasket kit in for the top end. Two gasket related questions. First, do i use the cometic torque spec for torquing down the heads or do i use the procedure outlined in the servive manual? The cometic is done with torque in stages up to 42ft/lbs where as the manual is torqued in stages and a final rotation of 90 degrees. Second, are the cometic gaskets designed to be installed with the ribs up, down, or it doesn't matter? Thanks again for the patience people. | ||
| Phelan |
You can leave the pushrods and pushrod covers in place. Use Cometic's headbolt torquing sequence for thr headbolts, and thr manual specifications for the rest of the bolts. I'm on vacation so I don't have any gaskets in front of me, but IIRC the ribs face up. | ||
| Greg_e |
Make sure the gasket mating surfaces are clean. No leaks on mine using the Cometic specs. | ||
| Canxb |
Hey everyone, So i am back at it. Had to wait for my rear stand to come in and my cometic gasket set. Also ordered a second set of head gaskets (0.030") for the rebuild. All i can say so far is wow! Lots of parts have been removed and i am still a ways away. The rotation is almost there. The jack i have is not low enough so i only have partial rotation. Enough to get the exhaust nuts off and remove the exhaust. So here come the questions... 1. The couple head bolts i tried to remove were impossible to crack. Any special tips or tricks? It doesn't appear that there is a special sequence to remove them so I am at a bit of a loss and even more concerned. I also have this fear of backing out a stud trying to remove the bolt. I am also assuming an impact driver is a definite no for the same reason for fear of backing out a stud? 2. When I was working under the air box I disconnected the throttle position sensor. Then later on the instructions that I were following from buellxb.com said to remove the tps sensor, so i did. When it all goes back together the tps does not need resetting or anything does it? For some reason I am specifically focused on this item. So...at this point that is as far as i have gotten. I will continue on tomorrow and hope progress continues to be made. I also will continue to update all if anyone is interested. I will admit, this is quite the endeavor. Thanks again all for your help and support. Joe | ||
| Canxb |
SO, its all buttoned back up and was a very fun but challenging job. Definitely learned a few things along the way and would do a couple things differently. All in all was fun, slow and steady and all went back together. Started the bike up and it idled a bit rough. Let it run for a bit and it smoothed out but was low. Adjusted the idle a bit higher and that worked. Here is where things went a bit south... Took the bike around the block for a shakedown run and its stumbling a bit. Not a lot but definitely enough to notice. So any ideas why? Plug wires are on good, otherwise the stumbling would be a lot worse. Is it possible that there is still a bit of air in the fuel line from being disconnected? I know it emptied out for sure. Between the idling and the ride around the block I may not have removed all the air? Is this possible? I also had to remove the TPS. Is this a symptom of TPS removal? Is it required to reset the tps? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am at a total loss. Joe | ||
| Greg_e |
Yes, the TPS removal will require a TPS reset because it has moved (but must be close). Hopefully that will cure the problem. I doubt there is any air in the fuel lines after the pump came up to pressure. | ||
| Canxb |
Would anyone be able to point me in the direction of where I could find the directions on how to do a tps reset? Would the position change of the tps have these symptoms? | ||
| Audiowize |
What year is your bike? That influences how the TPS is reset. | ||
| Canxb |
Bike is a 2003 XB9R. It looks like I need to source a cable and try and find ECMspy. Although they do have Bluetooth versions now as well. I am also trying to find if these are typical symptoms of a TPS that needs resetting. | ||
| Canxb |
Hi all To add a bit more information this is what i did after work: Took the bike out. Still stumbles occasionally. Even once warm it does not want to settle in and idle steady. At one point i even pulled over to adjust the idle. Put the bike in neutral to make the adjustment. When i put it into first to leave the engine light came on and it wanted to die. Let off the gas and back into neutral and it would keep idling and the check engine light would go off. turned te bike off. Let it sit for five to ten minutes and I was able to make it home. Engine temps definitely seem warmer than normal and ambient temperatures are by no means hot. With the bike warmed up i held it at about 1800 rpm and sprayed the intake seals with wd-40. No change at all. I think i have ruled out intake seal leak. I took extra care installing them and it seems to be tight. I have done a lot of searching and can not find a lot of info on the symptoms of requiring a tps reset (i did remove the tps sensor during the rebuild). So i am hoping this is my problem. I have ordered the buelltooth dongle and now i wait. Unless someone has a suggestion on something else i could check. Thanks again. Joe | ||
| Audiowize |
Yeah, the Bluetooth dongle and the Android app work well together, much better than the USB cable. If you need help getting through the reset, just let us know where you're getting stuck. | ||
| Canxb |
Thanks for the offer. Should be a week or so before it arrives. Hopefully this cures my idle issue and the poor driveability. | ||
| Canxb |
Would anyone have a list of the issues(symptoms) of a TPS that needs to be adjusted? | ||
| Greg_e |
Idle problems stumbling poor running These are the big three. The fuel system meters fuel be way of a few very basic sensors, one of which is the throttle position. If it doesn't know where the throttle really is, the fuel supply is wrong. I think this is called an Alpha N system. | ||
| Audiowize |
Yeah, there isn't a mass airflow sensor, but if the ECU knows how many degrees the throttle is open, the temperature of the air, the altitude, and the RPM of the engine, then airflow can be calculated. If any of those numbers isn't reading properly, then the bike won't run as intended. | ||
| Canxb |
Good morning all, I just wanted to thank everyone so far for their time and help. It is greatly appreciated as there are no actual resources locally that I can rely on for help. As of right now I am in a holding pattern. Waiting for my Buelltooth dongle to arrive and do a TPS reset. Hopefully this will remedy my problem and by the sounds of the symptoms it sounds like it should. As soon as it arrive I will be back and either be looking for more assistance or reporting back on what the status of my XB9R is. I have never done anything like this before and am thankful for the resources available on this site. The feeling I have from even getting this far is pretty awesome so we will see how this ends up...LOL. Joe | ||
| Greg_e |
Since you have an 03 9R, you may want to check for a leak where the manifold goes together. Could be a vacuum leak as well. | ||
| Canxb |
Greg e Thanks for the tip. For clarification at what point are you referring? The rubber velocity stack to manifold joint or the joints where the manifold mates to the heads? With the bike at approximately 1800rpm I did spray the manifold to head interface and got no rpm change or stumble so that seems to be a good tight seal. So are you referring to the joint where the rubber velocity stack connects to the throttle body? | ||
| Canxb |
To add to that...I did not separate the throttle body from the manifold at any point in the rebuild. I did remove the TPS sensor though. Also during the build I did not notice any vacuum lines so I do not think you are referring to that when you mention a vacuum leak...correct? | ||
| Greg_e |
It's been a few years since I did my upgrade to a 12 throttle body, but I do remember that the intake can be split in half (plus the rubber velocity stack) and that there was a gasket of some kind in there that's now old and may have been disturbed by the work. I'd go after it with a propane torch (no flame) and see if the idle changes when you introduce the gas to certain areas. Also there is a little fitting on the side of the throttle body, this was made for a MAP sensor, which we don't have. Normally this has a vacuum cap over it, but the cap degrades and gets blown off. I threaded mine and sealed a screw in there to permanently block this off since it is not used. It did make my bike smooth out when properly blocked. So check that fitting as well. (Message edited by Greg_E on June 15, 2017) | ||
| Phelan |
Only the 03 XB9 has a separate manifold and throttlebody. All XB12 manifolds are 04-up which is when they integrated the throttlebody and the manifold into one piece. I have like 10 of them. (Message edited by phelan on June 15, 2017) | ||
| Phelan |
There are lots of separate pieces to either, but the 03 is the only one with a gasket/seal between the manifold and throttle body, as most of thr 03 pieces were reused from the X1/S3 (throttle body, TPS, injectors). |
