| Author | Message | ||
     Raymaines |
Blake asked (Saturday, July 14, 2001 - 12:16 am ): "Do you really believe that HD/Buell would overprice their targeted market/competition by 25%?!!" Well, actually, yes I do. They've been doing just that for years. Thats how we got $16,000 Fat Boys and $12,000 X1's. | ||
| Drandall |
XB9R: I love it! Why? Because it's unique; the CBR/FZR/GSXR/Ninja are all the samn damn bike, and I'm totally sick of them (having owned three of that exact thing in my past). I am absolutely pleased Buell has gone-out-on-a-limb like this, and am waiting for a new S4 along the same lines. I thought I was going back to Ducati, but this new concept may just well keep me buying American. Tootles, Dave '00 X1-RS | ||
| Buellman |
Rocketman: Umm...haven't heard of a Firestorm, who's building that? Thanks everyone for the emails and comments I have received, makes my sleepless nights here in LA all worthwhile. Brad Sport Twin http://www.sporttwin.com | ||
| Mark W |
Well, the announcement of the XB9R has brought me back to the BBS to see what's up. About a year ago I sold my beloved S3t and replaced it with a Honda Sabre (gasp). I loved the S3 but the reliability and comfort (it just didn't fit right) moved me to sell it and wait to see if Eric was going to get to engineer the Buell for the new century. It looks like he is so I'm certainly staying tuned. The model lineup is starting to take shape. The Blast is there to bring the new into the fold, the XB9R will be the middle weight torch bearer tempting 600 riders and the closer will be the new X1 in a year or so with the W/C H-D/Porsche motor. In Harley trim it pumps out over 105hp and redlines @ 9000 rpm! Warm it over a bit and get it into the 130hp range and then you've got serious competion for the "big dog" v-twin sport bikes out there. By 2004 I see the Buell lineup being: Blast XB9R M2 (or some variation of the "naked" bike) X2 (Water Cooled super v-twin) I think they'll leave the sport touring line to the new Harley V-Rod so the S3 won't be carried through. Of course this is purely speculation and I'm most definately an outsider looking in but marketing and product placement is what keeps companies viable. Buell needs to bring in new riders as well as insent existing or previous owners the come back. Refining the existing line isn't the way to this end and they know it. You all know it too, even if you don't want to admit it. Now, if they can get through a years production run on the XB9R without a major recall then maybe they have a chance to take the next step into the Water Cooler era (I know, Eric said he wouldn't build a water cooled bike but then so did Harley!) | ||
| Mark_In_Ireland |
Whats going to stop the engine falling straight onto the deck when the front cylinder support bolts snap!!!! There isn't any frame to drop onto now to warn you of imminent danger............me?....I'm ever the cynic. Hope those superlight wheels can cope with potholes, roads in real life aren't track smooth. I was at the TT races when Robert Dunlops rear wheel collapsed due to the extra forces generated by the bumpy course. They where Dymag magnesiums, and checks on all the other riders similar wheels showed up similar potential failures. All these wheels had been fully tested and ran perfect on the track.....but in real life........only time will tell. I'll reserve any more judgement until Performance Bike test ride one!!!  | ||
| Hans |
That Firebolt (BOLT Rocket BOLT, the thing you need to use an hammer on  ) seems me superb. How longer I look how more I am impressed with all those details in this fine concept. The looks of a bike have only commercial importance. It doesn`t matter. I suspect that the upside down fork is an compromis towards the general idea how a modern fork has to be. The brake calliper could be fixed directly onto the tube if an upside up fork was used. I am really excited about the Firebolt. Hans. | ||
| Blake |
Ralph: We should be comparing list prices no? Not the same as the price your local Suzi dealer may be willing take for a year old 2001 model. The 2002 TL1000S lists for... ? I suspect the XB9R will eat SV650's, Duc 750SS's, and Duc 750/900 Monsters for lunch. Ray: HD OWNES and defines the cruiser market. They are selling motorcycles faster than they can build them. And... we sould recall that an XL883 lists for less than $6K, the XL1200 for less than $8K, and the Dyna Superglide for less than Don't we still need to consider a Buell as a semi-exotic? With production per year less than 5000 per model, I'd think so. Regrdless of what naysayers might think, exclusivity is worth a LOT in today's marketplace. Buell has not overpriced it's market by 25%; Buell has defined it's own market and set the baseline for others to meet/beat. Let's see the price of Honda's wet dream fantasy bike, if it ever sees production. | ||
| Tripper |
The 2002 TL1000S lists for... ? Zip, nadda, out of production. | ||
| Raymaines |
Actually, the FXD Dyna Superglide carries a MSRP of $11,900, plus $290 for the California Carb, $320 for laced wheels and any color but black adds another $240. HD expects to sell about 100,000 big cruisers this year and capture about 62% of that market (as per an AP story by Leslie Gornstein that was in theis mornings local paper). I'd agree that HD "ownes and defines" the cruiser market, but they have competion. For example, the new Honda VTX 1800 that retails for $12,800 and the Yamaha Road Warrior with a list price expected to be $12,000. I understand the workings of supply and demand and I don't mean to labor the point but HD products are not sold at give away prices. | ||
| Chuck |
Some of you seem "overly" concerned with horse power; and "under - ly" impressed by handling . . . Ever hear of a racer named Nicky Hayden? Well back before he was really famous, he used to enter his "250" in the WERA "open" superbike classes. His bike would never "keep - up" off the line . . . but after a couple of laps, he would usually be leading the race  | ||
| Ralph |
No Blake. Lets compare what the bike sells for, not what it's supposed to sell for. MSRP don't mean diddly, ask any dealer. I don't think the (more letters and numbers) will "eat for lunch" the Duc or SV. I don't think they'll have parity either. It will be very strong compared to a 650 rice burner or 750 speghitti mill. What I was getting at in my earlier statement about comparing the Firebolt to the SV was that the SV sells for three grand less than the expected price of the new Buell. That's a big chunk. A damn big chunk my friend. Comparing Ducs and Buells to me is an apples to apples kinda deal (exotic, stylish, blah blah), as soon as you bring in the Jap bikes there's a big butt orange sitting there. Buell may be seen as exotic now but I don't think the man named Buell is satisfied with that (only Rocket). From what I've seen he wants his motorcycles to be popular and used widely. The Blast and Firebolt are examples of this philosophy. Streamlined production, simple maintainence and a truely fantastic real world usability. The only thing missing is price, that can't change until the numbers manufactured and sold increase. Chuck, come ride in Nebraska for a month or so. A "twisty" here is a type of cap on your beer. I am certainly impressed with the handling of Buells and I'm even more certain that the (insert numbers and letters here) will handle better than ever. But it don't mean beans to me. Well, okay, more than beans but in all honesty and seriousness power does mean something more to me. In fact is has a very high value. I don't go a day without nailing a hundred and rarely a week goes by I don't have the bike up to its maximum speed. By the way, the S1 is good for one thirty five (indicated) if I hold my shoulders just right. There is a drag strip a half hour away from me. The closest circuit track is better than three hours and is basically unavailable for two wheeled vehicles. The closest circuit track that has a steady diet of motorcycle racing is Hallet, in Oklahoma. That'd be around an eight hour drive for me. If I lived in the Ozarks of Missouri, southern Kali, or around Caps in North Carolina my system of values would change. But I don't, so it isn't. By the way, your earlier comment about the TL, it being uncomfortable and hot....that is the same thing I was told about Buells three years ago before I bought my S3. I am not in any way shape or form casting aspersions (drat, wish I could spell) on the newest addition to the Buell family. Just picking on details. I think it's an excellent bike in all respects. It's very pleasing to my eye. I have no doubts the handling will be superb. The power it puts out will perfect for the real world, especially considering its astounding light weight. I can see a much simplified production methodology (not important for us, but it is for Buell). At the same time I still have nits to pick. The motor honestly leaves me flat. It is nothing more than yet another redesign of the Sportster (or if you want to get really nasty, the flat head K) motor. I don't care how well done, it still has all the weaknesses. Better than the earlier designs? Sure, you bet! But not good enough, it can't be. I can only think of one strength the 45 degree Sporty type motor has, compactness. That's it. I could list its weaknesses for an hour, so I won't bore you. Hey, I'll leave the air cooling out of the arguement. Mr. Buell likes it and it's certainly one of the reasons for the extraordinary light weight of his newest off spring. But damn it all, I need more to be excited about. Erik Buell got me all excited about sport bikes and when I'd like to step it up a notch I don't feel that he is supplying me with that next step. bighairyralph | ||
| Blake |
But Ralph. How can we compare actual sale prices? The thing hasn't even hit the market yet.  And I still contend that using a year old model that is now out of production for comparison, just ain't fair. I don't buy the uncomfortable TL argument either. I've got rearsets and clipons on my '97 M2. Unbelievably, it's more comfortable than my stock '00 M2! Suzi has a kickin' deal on the SV, but that as you imply is clearly another market. The Firebolt is in a league above the SV; like you said, the Ducs are more in the same category of semi-exotic. I agree, Buell wants to get way more market share. When they do, the prices might drop some. And I'll be grinning and riding my semi-exotic '97 M2 Cyclone.  BTW, If you want some relative price comparison points, I bought my brand new '97 M2 for $6,500 (MSRP was ~$9,400?) '00 M2 for $7,500 (MSRP was ~$8,500) and a slightly used pristine '97 M2 with 6,923 miles and $2,500 worth of goodies for $6,001. I'm sure the Firebolt will drop below MSRP too. At least in some areas. The market will demand it. Anyone here pay full list for their bike? And I'd sure like to hear all the weaknesses of the XB9R's new engine (an hour's worth, I think you said?). As to your Buell superbike... maybe next year eh?  | ||
| Jareth |
From 'Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban' by J.K. Rowling THE FIREBOLT This state-of-the-art racing broom sports a stream- lined, superfine handle of ash, treated with a diamond-hard polish and hand-numbered with its own registration number. Each individually selected birch- twig in the broomtail has been honed to aerodynamic perfection, giving the Firebolt unsurpassable balance and pinpoint precision. The Firebolt has an acceleration of 150 miles an hour in ten seconds and incorporates an unbreakable Braking Charm. Price on request. Heh. Maybe Mr. Buell is a Harry Potter fan? - Jareth (still annoyed at the 30.5" seat height.) | ||
| Jmartz |
Ralph: I'm glad to find someone who thinks this repackaged Sportster powerplant is a thing of the past, is never going to produce enogh power and should be retired into motor heaven along with the knuckles, pans, shovels and blocks. | ||
| Jmartz |
Kevyn: Some of us need the bike to do the work. |
