| Author | Message | ||
     Buellman |
Ok boys and girls, I am at the Dealer Show in Los Angeles and are ya'll gonna be suprised! This new Buell has some cutting edge stuff, things never seen on a production motorcycle until now! If you want to see photos of the new Buell tomorrow, then you better sign up on the Sport Twin email list today or you wont receive the hyperlink to the new photos when I publish them Thursday. Also, watch the forum, Dealer Show thread, for more information. Brad | ||
| Peter |
Buellman Brad, Waiting, waiting, waiting, patiently waiting...... PPiA | ||
| Lapsley |
Buellman: why not go ahead and give us some details P-L-E-A-S-E!!!! | ||
| Anonymous |
BUELLMAN YOU SUCK you are making me foam at the mouth. AghHhghHhghHGhhGhHGhhG how bout telling us a weeeeeeeeeeee bit? | ||
| Travis |
New Buell Details | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
RE: Travis's referrence to details: Oil in the swingarm? Right. Did EB get hit in the head so hard it was shoved up his ass? That'd be the worst thing to do...adding to sprung weight and in the worst way as liquids slosh around and pick up momentum, which would hurt handling even more!!! Fuel in the frame? Sure, why not. Just extra complexity for what gain? Perimeter brakes. Gotta bridge to sell you. Again, why? Buell's current 13" rotor and 6 pot calipers are world class (only need a dual setup for fade resistance on the track - little more feel would be nice too but that's nitpicking)! In theory the perimeter system is an advantage, but not enough of one...ever wonder why NO race bike uses 'em? In a sport where $ is little to no object, if there was an advantage you'd see all WSB race bikes with perimeter systems. Hope that's just a troll for sporttwin. At least H-D is stepping forward into the modern era...I predict Buell will be "...ever twirling, twirling, twirling for freedom!" Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Neil, step out of the box......... | ||
| Aikigecko |
IMHO Race bikes differ by small amounts, motors and how the fit into a frame. I.E. look at the 600's. almost clones of eachother. superbike is a bit differant but that is because the rules were made to cause that difference. the rest of the bikes seem to be remarkably similar mostly because the teams don't want to stray from what they know works engine and frame are enough to work with. In the case of Suzuki and their GP bikes...too much | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Step out of the box??? fact is fact: - oil in the swingarm (no matter what and how you baffle it) will negativly affect the suspension in a VERY significant manner. So is "out of the box" also beyond the realm of physics? Where am I wrong? - fuel in the frame...other than the ubiquitous "cool" factor, why? No signifcant benefit, and useless extra complexity. Not really in the design spirit of of EB who seems to really like the KISS prinicpal. - perimiter brake...see above and add in the extra cost to BMC for this. Again I don't really see it. Hell, there was even a compliment on BMC in my comment. So, Jose, I'm a close-minded individual cause I see reality, not the pipe dreams (and bad ideas) of whoever started that info? I'm no expert, I just play one on the internet...geez. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| José_Quiñones |
We'll know soon enough  | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Aikigecko, ever really been in the pits for any length of time? Yep, all those bikes are really clones. There are rules to establish a relatively level playing field for all participants. It's up to the race teams to stretch, twist, bend those rules to gain an advantage. There's a LOT of little, and unique things done to those bikes (some good, some bad). They only alter the frame and engine, what? They alter EVERYTHING. Suspension setup, tires, chain/sprockets, engine, intake, etc... Fact, frame is about the only thing they don't as rules don't allow it - baring modelwide changes from the manufacturer. Yep, they're all clones. Neil Garretson...and y'all are calling me narrow-minded. X0.5 | ||
| Anonymous |
we'll see tomorrow and in performance testing later on... | ||
| Fpostow97s3 |
Lsr Bbs: "Fuell within the Frame" NOT in the frame. You'll see. | ||
| Court |
>>and y'all are calling me narrow-minded. Frankly, I'm not sure anyone called you that...I think you charged right out and GRABBED the title. Fortunately....you did it today when we are not burdened with facts. Narrow minded? Perhaps. Slow to offer an opinion? I'd say not. I'm eager to KNOW more. Call me the Imperical Emperical. Court P.S. - Get Ketchup. If I know Erik F. Buell you're gonna have a full course of recently flung words to eat tomorrow. Just my opinion. | ||
| Jasonl |
Ok..lets have a pointless internet discussion where nothing is proven and we both look REALLY smart to our respective audiences! That was a joke btw. I'm just trying to soften a hard target with some pre-emptive humor here. Mind if I address some points? LSR_Bbs said: >fact is fact: >- oil in the swingarm (no matter what and how >you baffle it) will negativly affect the >suspension in a VERY significant manner. So >is "out of the box" also beyond the realm of >physics? Where am I wrong? ~~ Maybe...maybe not. First off we really don't know if this is true or not. But if it is would it have anymore effect than a swing-arm that was single sided and massive to resist torque? What if the swingarm was forked and carried the oil tank REALLY close to it's mounting point? That wouldn't have much effect on the action because it would lessen the lever effect of that weight on the arm itself. Nxt point is how much does 2 qts of oil weight? Couple of pounds? Would that make a real difference? I'm sure it would make some but enough to matter on the street? > >- fuel in the frame...other than the >ubiquitous "cool" factor, why? No signifcant >benefit, and useless extra complexity. Not >really in the design spirit of of EB who seems >to really like the KISS prinicpal. ~~This has the potential of getting rid of the airbox and also removing the huge tank on top of the motor thereby reducing overall motorcycle height. What's wrong with that? We'd get a nice low cycle with no Hemholtz box mucking up the looks and no dorky looking covers like the X1. Maybe an elegant solution to noise regs and styling cues. We'll see. > >- perimiter brake...see above and add in the >extra cost to BMC for this. Again I don't really >see it. Hell, there was even a compliment on BMC >in my comment. ~~ Ok. You got me here. I have no idea other than maybe it dissipates heat better and gets rid of the carrier that wore so poorly on some bikes. Why not get rid of wear parts when you can? > >So, Jose, I'm a close-minded individual cause I >see reality, not the pipe dreams (and bad ideas) >of whoever started that info? ~~ No, you're not close minded. (Sheesh) Maybe you're just looking for another perspective and in your own gruff way asking for us to point out something good about this. Well I'm here to HELP! (grin) > >I'm no expert, I just play one on the >internet...geez. ~~ Yeah...me too. Now. Do you think our audience was suitably impressed with our display of mental machismo? I bet they think we're real fart smellers now! | ||
| Eeeeek |
I'm feeling pretty darn smart right about now! http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/7466.html?994055773#POST67704 Vik | ||
| Alanx1 |
I got the latest news on the new Harley and Buells a couple hours ago. This is the real deal straight from my dealer friend who called from L.A. Please go here to read about it so I don't have to type it again. http://www.buelligans.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi | ||
| 3uell |
Alanx1 I went, I read, I saw... nutin. The real straight deal is... waiting on pins and needles. Although the Oil is carried in the sissy bar, the fuell in the rotor carier, the swingarm is where the key goes and it has jake brakes. Other than that the details are still fuzzy | ||
| Firemanjim |
OK,we were told by Mark Ransavage-the Harley zone rep at ASBN last meeting that we should check the Buell website at close of business on the 11th for release of new model info.So where is it?I have been looking all day as he did not say cob in what time zone.Inquiring minds want to know!!!! | ||
| Jima4media |
Firemanjim, I can verify that story with pictures. They are over on sacborg.com under the ASBN pictures thread. Jim | ||
| Rocketman |
Roc slip : Well I ain't sure which kit you got from ASB, I assume Barnett, which was by far the best kevlar one I used, but the SE one is only part kevlar and I'll tell you now, I installed it at Just Harleys, trailered the bike home then rode it 200 miles to Buellfest at Silverstone last year, did two 8th mile runs and on the second run, hey presto , no clutcho ! Guess what, it was toast ! Yep, 200 road miles and not quite two 8th mile runs and that baby was gripping nuthin. Best bit was, when we removed the primary, some of the part kevlar segments were just sat there not attached to the plates. Absolute jenk ! Anyways, hope it works for ya and keep me posted on their progress ! A doubleyouitis : But of course you do. Silly me, how could I forget Irish Dream : Just to p i s s you off, maybe you've had a serious amount of downtime with yer S1 but you've covered more miles (32K ?) than most Buellers do before they buy a BMW  Rocket in England | ||
| Raymaines |
A man with a dream starts a motorcycle company and in due time the company introduces a prototype model by saying: "Performance always takes a high profile in motorcycling, but we were looking to reinforce the emotional attachment that owners have with their bikes." The new bike is a 90º, water cooled, overhead cam V-Twin, stark naked hot rod that will make your blood run hot. Check it out. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
That was funny, made me look! It's the freaking Honda. | ||
| Rocketman |
Main Ray of Light : You're a few days behind with that joke Rocket in England | ||
| Alanx1 |
hey 3uell, You know what? I went through a lot of trouble to get the info on the new harley. It happens to be true. You have been on 3 different boards calling me a troll and saying there was no info. I told you the name of the bike, The displacement, the horespower rating, the rear tire size,the fuell cell location,the fact that it was watercooled and fuel injected. What more did you want. maybe I should buy you one and have it shipped to your house? None of the sites where I posted a link had any info on the new bike. I figured it might be appreciated. It's not like I make money on this stuff. I put a lot of time and effort into trying to make my site the best that it can be and I try to furnish as much info and content as I can. If you don't like it don't visit it. No problem. But don't go around trying to •••• on me and saying the info I posted is "nothing there" or b.s. because it isn't. If I didn't know to an absolute certainty that what I printed was true I would not have printed it. It came directly from a harley dealer who is a friend of mine and is at the dealer show this week. I will probably have pics and specs on the new Buell tommorrow as well. I'm wondering now if it is worth the effort to even post them. Sorry for the rant. Sorry as well if anybody thought I was making an inappropriate use of the board. It was not my intention to do so. | ||
| Roc |
I had a break in in my night class and just had to check on the status of the new Buell's disclosure. I hope its narrow, narrow bikes are sexy bikes. Rocket- I hope my clutch holds out better than that. | ||
| Anonymous |
Cheers, New flick of the Buell!  S'later, -SD:>) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Um... nothing personal AlanX1, but I went to the site and saw exactly nutin as well... at least as far as new information about the new buell goes. If there was any beef about the post, it was not linking to another site (we do it all the time), it was that your post seemed to indicate that the link would take you right to new information about the new bike. I spent a good 10 minutes there and found nothing about it. Are we missing something? Bill | ||
| Anonymous |
AlanX1 Would you care to wager $1000.00 that your info on the new Buell you posted is 100% wrong? Quote: This is directly from my buddy who is attending the dealer show this week. We also know that the new Buell is watercooled but not much else yet. R | ||
| Rocketman |
And I tried to register on the email link and I couldn't expand the page large enough to do anything . Result, register for what ? Now if you got them pics , say tomorrow, why do we have to register to see 'em or wait until the weekend ? Just post the damn pics right here on BADWEB. The best, most read Buell board on the freekin planet. GET THEM PICS OR ELSE....... Rocket in England | ||
| Bradgross |
check this out. pretty convienent timing considering. Now what do you suppose they are going to do with that new building in York??? http://news.motorcycle.com/article.motml?sid=992 BradG | ||
| Dark_Ninja |
I hope the last one out of HD when it folds up shuts off the lights...:-( The only reason their sales are holding or 'growing' is because of the scarcity of new rides. The aftermarket for used ones is almost saturated. Even BARELY used ones, 2000 Wides/Electra's...the paper here in Casper is FULL of them. Even some 2001s for sale already in the 'used' market. If they are going to use this new plant to up production of HD's then they have been mislead by their forecasters. Just my .02 and I hope I am wrong. Will someone PLEASE POST PICTURES OF THE NEW BUELL NOW!!! I am *never* going to get to sleep tonight! :D | ||
| Buellman |
Well I gotta tell ya, this is what I was told here at the Dealer Show: The new Buell IS Air Cooled 3 Valve motor, which is what I have been saying for months. I would love to have mud on my face and see a radiator tomorrow. Half fairing with RamAir, no more bread box. ULTRA lightweight. Gas IS in the frame, oil in the swingarm. Perimeter brakes are here. If you think that HD/Buell isn't getting serious then go here to see the new liquid cooled V-Rod: V-Rod photos at Sport Twin Aluminum bodywork, fuel tank under the seat, 615lbs, 43mm forks, tons of super trick engineering on this thing, HD has REALLY restored my faith in their capabilities. I've had my hands on it today, it is a real piece of work! Don't forget to watch the mpeg video I took as well of the V-Rod smokin the Dunlop! I will have Buell pics posted tomorrow. Brad Sport Twin | ||
| Jima4media |
Brad, Great pictures! We have faith in you gettin the goods tomorrow. Jim | ||
| Ralph |
Neil, when I first heard about the oil in the swing arm thingy I blew it off as pure crazyness. But today at work it struck me. If you have an air/oil cooled bike you need to cool the oil. Whats a good way? Run it through a large area made of a conductive material. Like aluminum. Best if that chunk of aluminum is doing something besides just sitting there being hot. So, my hypothosis (for at least the next twelve hours) is that the swing arm may actually have oil running THROUGH it, NOT sitting in it. The mass of the oil would not need to be large to be effective. After all, it's a cooling device, not a storage tank. That would actually be very cool in my book. bighairyralph | ||
| Eeeeek |
Perimeter brakes or brake? I'm still betting that it's a single sided perimeter brake. Vik | ||
| Tripper |
That mpeg is cool. This bikes got a pretty healthy sound. Trust SportTwin to bring us the straight poop. Thanx Brad! Tryin to go to sleep now. | ||
| 3uell |
AlanX1 Cry to someone else. You post that info is out, that you got it, see it at buelligans. I looked, and saw nuthin. New HD info that is everywhere, sure. But the Buell is still (at 10:20pm Pacific) a mystery to non dealer show invitees. If you have the goods, post them now. If we gotta wait for your buddy, then it's just like everyone else, wait till tomorrow. You had no scoop and you posted links as if you did. I say get a thicker skin pal, if you think I shat on you, well here is a kleenex. coedswithheavybreasts.com is THE site for new Buell information until the real info hits the street. | ||
| Anonymous |
alright children lets play nice now~ ^^ | ||
| Buellx1nc |
Vik: This site "coedswithheavybreasts.com" is THE site for new Buell information until the real info hits the street. Man it really rocks !!!!! RIDE SAFE PROTECT THAT 6 | ||
| Raymaines |
Rocket: Yeah, my mom says I'm a little slow too. | ||
| S2carl |
Vik, I agree w/ the brake vs brakes. If a single 340 mm unit works well today, there should be no need for 2 perimiter brakes, other than to look way cool. Also, as Reg noticed in his test of the perimiter units in a past issue of B2W, there was an increse in the gyro effect w/ the perimiter untis, hopefully by running only one it will lessen the increase to an aceptable level. just my .02 Carl | ||
| Court |
Hey. Look at those trees. | ||
| Ara |
Ralph, you may be onto something. If there's no air in the swingarm along with the oil, then the constant up and down motion of the swingarm wouldn't cause the oil to foam. Russ | ||
| Davet |
Court...trees?? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Court is either enjoying the wonderfull view from Colorado, or he is pointing out that we are missing the forest for the trees. Probably both. My thought... does "fuel" in the frame refer to gasoline, or the type of heads? Could be some clever cryptic hints. Could be "two fuel in the frame". Now everybody stop going on ...pause to refresh sport twin 2002 buell page... and on about ...refresh again... these new buells ...refresh... and diagnose my ...refresh again... tranmission problem . Bill | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Ralph, If your correct then I stand corrected. That would be a good thing if done in that fashion. Though that's contrary to oil tank in the swingarm as everyone else seems to be saying. =================== Mental machismo??? Don't believe I was trying to diss anyone, or inflate my ego...hell I don't know any of y'all in real life, so to what end? I was pointing out a contrary, based in reality, point of view of all the speculative hype. Personally, I hope I DO eat my words and Buell does something truely inspiring...but some of the hype going around won't do it. There's room in the sandbox for all kiddies...I'll share my ball if you will. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| José_Quiñones |
The Firebolt! | ||
| Court |
Jose: You are on the right track...but have only seen the surface. There are things in store that will rock the sportbike world.... Step back. Sit on the milk crate. When was the last time Erik Buell did ANYTHING just to do it or for looks? When you are a hammer, you see everything as a nail. Obe Jaun to Luke Skywalker: Let go your conscious self....left the force flow through you. Neil...I bear glad tidings friend. You will get to eat your words, but you, I suspect, will LOVE the taste. I'm off to ride. Court | ||
| José_Quiñones |
2002 Buell Firebolt by dean adams It is expected that Buell Motorcycle Company will debut a new 2002 model today at the Buell/Harley-Davidson dealershow. The model is the 2002 Buell Firebolt XB9R, I'm told. It features: * 52 inch wheelbase * 45 degree 984cc engine * Fuel Injection * Ram air * the oil tank is in the swing-arm * fuel tank that is partially contained in the frame * ZTL (zero torsion load) braking system which features a wheel mounted rotor and single six piston caliper in front * a tension roller system instead of a chain adjuster * air filtering system that breaths through the top of the place where the (conventional) fuel tank is * and all sorts of things you'd expect on a Buell Most of this info came from the Buell supply/design chain and may have changed on the way to the dealer show. | ||
| Jasonl |
Lsr_Bbs - Whoa WHOA! I was trying to be FUNNY! Sorry...lame attempt. I was really just kidding around. I know you've got nothing to prove here. I was just trying to address some points and see where it went. Hell man...we're just talking and bullshitting. No big deal there right? But come on! You know we're all cult members who drool at the mere thought of seeing one of EB's engineering scribblings! Of course we're going to go ga-ga over a brand new cycle! Can you bear the enthusiasm!? | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
- Now, that ZTL braking sounds much more realistic than perimeter brakes...we'll see. - Ram air and "air filtering system that breaths through the top of the place where the (conventional) fuel tank is"...hmmmm. Jasonl, it's hard to convey humor/sarcasm - which has been one of the reasons I piss off so many people...plus I'm just an a@@. So, it's the 12th....where's the poop from BMC??? Neil Garretson - looking forward to see what crow tastes like. X0.5 | ||
| Tripper |
ohman this is getting exciting. 52 INCH WHEELBASE??? Can you imagine the front tire life on this thing? | ||
| Bradgross |
Okay thats about all I need to hear. Somebody who works for a dealer call me.... Bring on the firebolt!!! BradG ps. please call in 3 months time as I have no money | ||
| Ara |
I'm wondering how the new Buell Firebolt can have ram air and also breathe through the top of the "tank." Is this design going to preclude the use of a conventional tank bag??? And I'm with others who have questioned the wisdom of a "wet" swingarm. My inclination is to wait and see how these design features change in subsequent model years. Russ | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Just to piss in someone's cornflakes I sure hope BMC offers some good pricing and incentives for those of us who've suffered through some of BMC's trials and tribulations the past couple of years. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| José_Quiñones |
With all the air Buell owners generate, that's easy! The only problem is that it's  air | ||
| Jasonl |
Neil - Yeah..you're right. You are an a$$. (BIG GRIN) It's ok. You and I are not alone in that respect. BTW - You're also right about the pricing. I doubt it would happen but WOW! What an idea. Maybe they could offer an HD Authorized used bike plan like Acura and Lexus. Then they could take all the hot sporty motors out of our bikes that we traded in and re-sell them as snortsters to get back even mo' money. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Is there a chance this thing could have a supercharger? That would just about require the fuel be relocated... That would be cool if they could make it reliable (and it seems like the kinda thing they could)... Court... can I get off my milk crate now? My butt is getting sore from all this thinkin... | ||
| José_Quiñones |
* a tension roller system instead of a chain adjuster Is this for the primary chain or the CAM CHAIN? The Blast has a spring loaded primary chain adjuster, I wonder if this is the same thing. | ||
| Robertf |
Jose, you should add to that sentence: "... or the drive chain" (my guess, primary chain) I wish somebody would just post the info... I hope it's not as disappointing as the eagerly-awaited Blast was. /RF | ||
| Reepicheep |
http://www.sporttwin.com/02buells/2002buells.htm Its there! | ||
| Buellman |
Ok boys and girls the new Firebolt XB9R is here! 2002 Buell Firebolt XB9R At Sport Twin Enjoy! Brad Sport Twin | ||
| Anonymous |
OH MY GOD............ Ladies and Gentlemen, I think I just had a religious moment. | ||
| Ralph |
Wow. That's some frame. I totally dig the wheels. Four quarts in the swingarm. I gotta know more about that. Looks like normal heads. Non adjustable rear just like the Blast. Interesting. bighairyralph | ||
| Fontx1rs |
Actually, I'm disappointed. Only 92 CRANK hp and 80 ft-lb torque. I'm still waiting for the world beater. This bike is nice, and has some trick components and interesting design aspects, but I won't be selling my X1 for it. The only thing I hope is that they've really made it bullet-proof. With the extra body work, it would really suck to have exhaust headers breaking on this bike. Just my $.02 JoeBuell 99 RaceStripe | ||
| Robertf |
Well, the pictures are out, and it looks good to me. I'm real curious about the cost, and the actual weight. The tensioner mentioned above is on the drive belt. I want to ride one RIGHT NOW! RF | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Well, I'll give him credit it looks GREAT!!! - still question the oil in swingarm...a) specs say it's there, later photo says it's solid, which is it? b) doesn't really look like it could hold 4 qts. - perimeter brakes...enjoying that crow. Let's hope the lighter wheels offset the extra gyroscopic forces of the rotor. - no ram air. - would love to see a shot of the frame w/o bodywork...don't see how that frame is holding 4-5 gallons of gas. Maybe gas under seat???? Nope, looks like monoshock under the seat, hopefully w/ a linkage. - LOVE that half-fairing and the bodwork as a whole....well integrated, looks spectacular! Those wheels are tres' cool! - I hope and pray that FI has been thoroughly tested! Less than a lightening...could/should be a winner if it performs as well as the specs seem to indicate it will. So BMC, do us long-term sufferers right and give us a good deal on trade in and a "loyalty" rebate...I might just buy one. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Fontx1rs, Remember an X1 is 440lbs dry w/ [maybe] 101 hp at the crank. This is supposed to be 385lbs dry w/ 90 hp at the crank. hp/lb are almost identical for the 2. Plus, it should hop-up a little better if it's over-square as everyone suspects and will rev higher. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Arbalest |
If the rumors about the current line up continuing only til the end of this year are true, that would indicate a range of bikes based on the new motor. If this bike is less than an X1, could we extrapolate that the M2 replacement would be less than the current M2? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Look at those specs! I expected a TL1000 / Aprilla beater... and what we got looks like a Honda F4i. It is about the same top horsepower as an F4i, and about the same weight, but with a shorter wheelbase, TWICE the torque, and probably less unsprung weight. Wow. That makes a SERIOUSLY attractive bike... All the performance of an F4i with even more streetability. Wow. Wonder how cost is gonna compare, and how much progress was made in reliability. A decent trade in program would certianly get my attention in a hurry... | ||
| Fontx1rs |
Neil, Don't get me wrong, I like the bike. If I were buying a new bike right now and the Firebolt and Lightning were side by side, I'd get the Firebolt. What this bike does not do, is make me want to sell me Lightning and go out and buy this one. Better than the lightning? Yes. But, for me, not enough to justify the cost. Especially if there is a H20 cooled superbike in the near future! ;) | ||
| Travis |
questions, observations and thoughts - I dig it, all of it. - Conventional shock? - Doubled the blast motor, tripled the Hp? Kickass. - oil in swing arm? Fuel in Frame? Jury still out. - tail section, niiice. - 5 Differrent Seat option, cool. - looks like it would look pretty trick with the frame, etc Polished. Good stuff. Trav | ||
| Robertf |
Reep: The magazines report closer to 100 hp at the wheel on the F4i... I really hope the FI works better than the current X1 system. Or, more precisely, I hope it works well on ALL bikes, instead of just some. This might be my next bike. I need more details: cost, true weight, expected delivery date. RF | ||
| Bradgross |
kinda looks like the new Yamaha FZ-1. As for the specs, frankly I really don't care. This machine is going to have plenty of go for me. The torque number is the one I like. 80 ft./lbs is definetely my speed as well as 5 different seats. Hopefully one for touring and one for more "sporting" activities. Brad G | ||
| Choptop |
Trade-in program? how about one for anyone with a 99 FI bike thats given them trouble? | ||
| Ralph |
Neil, I believe it's solid on the opposite side of the bike. Solid appearing anyway, if the oil is in it. As far as the "lack" of power, it's about the same power as a stock S1. Not to shabby for the smaller displacement. Also, with the shorter stroke of the Blast it'll be revvier. Not to forget, Blasts use the standard 1200 cylinders (with a smaller bore) and heads. This being Blast based it should be right easy to pop it up a touch more, all of it bore, not stroke. I don't have any idea of the ability to run the case out further than the stock 1200 bore. All of the tons of aftermarket stuff will drop right on as well. By the way, there's your breather fix. Just slap on a set of the valve covers. About my only criticism....when the hell are they going to get a muffler design that didn't fall off a Mack truck. I mean, I know it works but damn! Oh, well, if it weren't for EPA mufflers and their replacements Battle 2 Win would have nothing to write about. It looks good. Really good. It's going to have to be affordable with all the damage that's been done to the Buell name. I'm with you Neil, I hope the injection mapping is flawless. It could sure be popular, low maintainence and sweet looking! bighairyralph | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Engine specs....pushrod or cam driven OHC? Trans...5 or 6 speed? Please do incentives for those of us who have suffered through early FI bullsh!t. Yep, F4, R6, 6R are all right at 100 rwhp. I personally don't care about exact #'s, as long as it's close it'll have plenty of go to be fun. This ain't no track weapon...thankfully. Hey, I'm excited. EB stuck to his roots, and contrary to a strong desire from some of us for fully faired race bikes he did a streetfighter...looks Voxan-ish. Personally, there's lots of little details that I'm impressed with...that rear pully is trick; the wheels; surprised by the frame choice since he's always done tubular frames; the tailsection is nice and clean; the entire package is MUCH more cohesive and looks like it belongs together more than previous buell offerings - IMNSHO. Come on BMC...could at least have a blurb on your website...not like you don't the entire buell community has been waiting w/ baited breath for this info. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Ralph |
Reep, that's going to end up being about fifteen horsies less than the Honda. But lets face it, the torque difference makes up the difference in the real world. bighairyralph | ||
| Jeffh |
 | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks for the correction on the F4i... Wonder what the area under the curve is goin to look like when you compare the bikes, like you said, the torque will cover a significant power difference, especially in the real world. And I wonder if there is significant low hanging fruit to easily snag and extra 10 horses or so (with minor tweaks and an absence of EPA officials).... Not that I want it (my cyclone is more power then I need as it is), but it would be nice to keep from hearing the magazines constantly whining... I like it! | ||
| Davegess |
Fire bolt, most cool, as different as i would expect form Erik. The weight thing is a personal passion of his and the number for this bike is amazing. Someone posted on the new bike spec page that the curent xl motor with the Buell swingarm mount weighs 210 pounds. I assume that everything possible was done to reduce that number but to see a total reduction of something like 50 pounds (over 11%) is really spectacular. I also think that many of you will be very pleasantly surprised by what that weight loss means for performance. Not only is it roughly the same as gaining 5 HP it will make every other aspect of the performance envelope work much, much better. Some body once said "you can't repeal the laws of physics", refering to the effect of weight on performance, and it is oh so true. This bike will be substantially easier to ride fast than any Buell before and will eat 600's for lunch in every area except top speed. It will be pretty competive with the 750s cause of the torgue and weight. Kudo's to everyone at Buell and particularlly Erik for a great job. Can't wait to ride one. Dave Gess | ||
| Mdx1 |
ga ga ga goo goo... can't wait to see one at the dealer (and take it for a test spin) time to hurry up and pay off my x-1. (and no i aint sellin it...) -yooj p.s. if anyone is interested, i posted on the exhaust section regarding WileyCo exhaust. their customer service rocks...not to mention i still love my pipe. | ||
| Captpete |
Fair warning to all you critters out there who swim, crawl, or lurk beneath the sea surface: The rules of engagement have just changed: Nobody gets out alive! The Rim Reaper needs a new scooter. | ||
| Loqtus |
Hey what's the frame made of? Aluminum (hope) or steel (ala most 600's)? And... Where's the friggin counterbalancer? Other than that, groovy! | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Loqtus, huh? 600's frames haven't been made from steel since the early 90's. Every current 600 supersport has a cast alum. frame! Care to check my 6R w/ a magnet? Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Jonathan |
That thing can't vibrate that much. Notice how tight everything is put together. Looks Cool! | ||
| Jeffh |
 Care for a yellow one? (Nice P-Shop work, Chop! ) | ||
| Jeffh |
Now if only buelldotcom had the "new" info available as it became public knowledge... | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Wow this is a home run, amazing, a total surprize! Jaromir Jagr has been traded to the CAPS! oops, wrong board! Nice job Buell, Twin Blast, indeed! As I predicted well over a year ago! | ||
| Tripper |
Alright Jose, you are the winner. A TwinBlast motor might just cut it for a midsize competitor. This thing is all Erik Buell, inovative chassis within resonable motor and cost constraints. Is it really 52 inch WB? I'm floored. Somebody do me a favor: photoshop out the removeable passenger pegs, remove the reflectors, put in a race pipe/muffler, flush mount turn signals. I want to see my perfect bike. Oh yes, yellow will indeed be the color of choice. God please let them prep the test bikes so they don't burn up. The press is going to go gaga if they run right. | ||
| 3uell |
I'll take mine in Onyx Alloy please (simply the best color Buell ever offered) Mean and understated, like a $5500 suit | ||
| Captpete |
A $5500 suit? Vanson is top of the line, & they're a lot cheaper than that. I think you're wasting your money. | ||
| Leeaw |
Yellow makes a hugh difference!!! | ||
| Eeeeek |
Jose: Being a cap's fan, I'M FREAKING HAPPY!!! Lost three guys, but it's damn nice ot get some star power! That had to be rough for Mario to let Jagr... I personally though that Jagr was going to take a salary reduction to stay. Vik | ||
| Travis |
I'm pretty sure he was talking about a Dress suit, gangsta style.  | ||
| Bradgross |
vik, Mario did not want Jagr to go but they both decided that the time was right. Apparently he needed a change of pace. The rumor is that he is broke from too much gambling and the losses of the stock market. Then again my definition of broke and his is probably vastly different. Required buell content: what does everyone think will be the firebolt's main competition? Here's my short list: 1. monster 900 2. sv650 3. Guzzi v11 Here are twin cylinder machines that don't exactly make the same power as the buell but are twins and not hypersport twins ala mille's or 996. BradG | ||
| Buellman |
Ok...I am back from the afternoon session with many great closeups and much more detail. I will have it posted within the hour. Firebolt pics and info at Sport Twin I have read through everyone's comments and I have to tell you that this thing is killer! Very possibly the finest handling motorcycle ever built. I will try to address everyone's comments on the page. Enjoy! Brad Sport Twin | ||
| Robertf |
let's not forget that the big lump in the middle of the bike is still a Sportster engine (albeit with mods), and it's got a FI system which might not be so different from the one which has caused so much trouble. Unless something has been done to greatly improve reliability, these things will still have trouble improving Buell's reputation, no matter how nice they look, or how well they ride. Which doesn't mean I don't want one... As for comparisons, price (still unknown) will be a big factor. Maybe competition would be the TL1000, SuperHawk. RF | ||
| Blake |
Ralph: Aren't the Blast cylinders the same bore as the 1200, just shorter stroke? Neil: Are the 600SS aluminum frames really all castings? Are portions extruded? More observations on the XB9R page. | ||
| Blake |
Robert: As far as I know, the DDFI is now VERY well sorted. I'd say the XB9R will compare very favorably with a Duc 750SS. I can't get past the 52" wheelbase. Not sure I will even fit on the thing. LOL. | ||
| Buellman |
Actually Blake it is really roomy, I would say a 6'4" or 5" person can fit fine, I am 6'1" and had plenty of room. The seating position is very comfortable, but make no mistake, the Firebolt is made to haul ass in the curves! Pegs are high, forget rear sets, if your touching these pegs (even on the track) you need a contract! Folks I have to tell you, this thing is a total departure from ANYTHING ever produced by Buell. Quality is superb, engineering is off the chart, the induction system as a whole is brilliant. Everything is well thought out. Hypereutectic pistons, lightweight valve train, .550" lift cams, super linear torque....done right for sure. As far as power, remember, it is 60lbs lighter than an X1, it has the highest torque to weight ratio of any machine out there! It redlines to a comfy 7500rpm, with plenty left, more HP can be had for sure. I am as tough of a critic as there is on Buell, but I told Erik after he came off the stage that he had restored my faith in Buell. I will own the first one through the door! You won't see them in the dealership for a few months but I promise you will not be disappointed! Pricing should be in the 9500-10k range. Brad Sport Twin http://www.sporttwin.com | ||
| Mdx1 |
Brad, you ARE the man. The more i look at it, the more I'm thinking.... HOLY SH*T!!!!!!!! If its RELIABLE, I'm sold. No doubt about it. 'Nuff crap about horses... lets talk about horses per unit weight carried and handling. (please please let it be reliable) Funny thing is... I was dreaming of a Cagiva V-RAPTOR before this bike. Comparing the two...this looks a lot like it but better. (oh yeah, I think the speedometer font looks gay, i hope they get rid of it) -yooj | ||
| Edmanning |
Cool, My Buells for sale. | ||
| Henrik |
Looks like it's got hollow axles = less unsprung weight - now if the spacers are aluminum, they've really done it right. Also looks like they finally got rid of the 25 year old HD footpeg design :-)) Can't see if the bars are "old style" or clip-ons - fairly agressive location though. Different, but still cool. Henrik | ||
| Rocketman |
WHAT THE F U C K IS THAT ? Quite frankly, I thought Buell built unique motorcycles and not conventional motorcycles with unique features. What was, and still is so great about the S Lightning's, and the X1's to a lesser degree, is that they look like no other bike on earth. Why the hell would Buell build a bike that looks like just another sportsbike ? I thought Buell would have given us something different once again. Sure it has some clever touches, but the styling is nothing more than another manufacturers take on an already very well established category. I'll not want one, that's for sure. I base a large %age of my choices on style and at those kind of rumoured prices I'd buy an MV F4 or the Ducati 748/916/996. That's if I wanted a racer, which I don't, so I don't want the Buell racer either. BAG O SHITE I SAY  Rocket in England | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Blake, Yeah I was simplfying a tad. Depending on manufacturer, I've seen extruded, cast, and forged (small structural bits mostly) frame pieces. I was really just contradicting the steel frame comment as that's just down right silly. ================= Ok, where does this the blast is an updated sportster motor stuff come from? Granted I haven't really paid all that much attention to the early blast stuff, but from what I've seen of the blast development, it isn't based on a sportster design at all...other than the unit construction and that's a stretch at that. ================= - So, is it pushrod or OHC? I'm guessing pushrod. - Is it 5 or 6 speed? I'll guess 5, otherwise they'd mention it. - the more I see the details and good pics, I'm glad to admit I'm eating a bit of crow...and it's tasty. There's some unique engineering in there...can't wait to see all the details, MSRP, etc... - 9.5-10k, that's cheaper than a X1? Barely. $9,000 is a good MSRP, slightly more than a 600cc, but 10K, please. Yes, 1K is being petty. Still insist that buell should offer some attractive deals for present buell owners...hint, hint, hint. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Anonymous |
Buell will be offering 100% MSRP trade ins to all current customers who have kept their bikes 100% stock and not screwed up a perfectly good fuel system. | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Cool, I have all the original DDFI parts...won't take more than 1 hr. to go back. Nothing permanently altered! Groovy...oh, wait, I bet you don't have this offer in writing do you? ============ -Interesting that there's a oil cooler stock. -Ralph, bars are clipon type, but cast into the top triple tree by the looks...the bars themselves look like typical 7/8" alum. bars. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Knutz1 |
Hey Anon I have a 00 X1 with over over 10k miles and it is completly stock. So I guess I qualify for the 100% MSRP trade. Blake please excuse my one post over here. I just couldn't resist Anon's offer. Back to sacborg and more moaning and complaining. jeff | ||
| Smoke |
the best thing i can say is the new harley is alot uglier than the new buell. i'm with rocket on this one. my s1 isn't going away tim 97s1 | ||
| Raymaines |
Please, somebody tell me about the rear shock. Up & down? With linkage? What? I've never ridden a Blast! but I know it gets high ratings on the smile-per-mile-ometer and the new bike sounds like it could be even more fun. In fact, with that REAL short 52" wheel base, light weight, light wheels and a bunch of torque, this bike could be the funnest bike in the world to ride. The only thing that upsets me is that I don't know how I would incorporate "2002 Firebolt" into my name. RaY2K M2aines | ||
| Jb2 |
WOW! Ed: I won't sell my S2's to get a new Firebolt but I'll be getting one... somehow, someway. I'm on fire... it's got it's own motor... no more bicycle handlebars... gotta make more room in the garage... gotta go look at them pictures again. Rocket; I don't agree with you but I've always admired your honesty. Looking for Buellers at Vintage Days Saturday... I'll have the new Team Elves shirt on. JB2 | ||
| Rex |
Okay, so if this is the Buell with the Under 1000cc bike, will the new Watercooled Harley Motor reside in the new S-3? Now that would be cool. A big high power watercooled motor for Sport touring, or even cross country touring with the ability to still take to the curves.........REX | ||
| Dhutty |
I don't own a Buell. Wanted to for a long time, haven't been able to figure out where to keep it and time to ride it. Anyway, I've been reading BADWEB for a year now, really dig these bikes, but somewhat scared of the ol' reliablity probs (so I'm a wussy). SO - I've just got to give it to Buell and all ya'll (as the test pilots!)s the Firebolt is absolutely spectacular!! Rather have stuck with the old tradition of WWII aircraft for a name, but what the hell. Perimiter brake. Frame IS the fuel tank. Swingarm IS the oil tank. BRAND new engine. This is awesome stuff. I hope: A) it's comfortable, not a back-breaking hyper-bike. B) can really carry a pillion rider. detachable hard luggage too much to ask? Real compettitor of the BMW R1100S I think. Special fittings for the S3 bags? Then I think you've got a hit. Damn fine. David | ||
| Buellman |
Ray- Go put the martooni down and go look at the pics. LSR- For God's sake...it's a pushrod puffer man. The tranny? It's a 5 speed. Rocketman- Holy &$#$ bloke...the Firebolt is as unconventional as it comes... Henrik- Yessir, your right, hollow (and VERY light) axles. Good eye, sorry I forgot to mention it. This one isn't for the masses... it's a Buell. Brad Sport Twin | ||
| Buckinfubba |
Oh yeah....this is bad ass to the bone....I want one ....like rocket I think the S1 is still the most stylish bike ever made and I won't be getting rid of mine .....but god those pics are better than porn....well at least today they are....takin these pics to school tomorrow at gonna let all my fellow tech students drool alittle....especially all the jap boys | ||
| Blake |
Brad: First off. THANKS from all of BadWeatherBikers.com. Not only for sponsoring this pain in the ass discussion board, but especially for giving us all a first look at the cool new Buell. Do they have a Black one? If so, sign me up! I'll be bringing the 100% stock '00 M2 in for a trade. I'm dead serious! Rocket! Dude?! Fuel in the frame, perimeter brake with the lightest front wheel ever on any stock bike, oil in swingarm, 385 LBs... not like "ANY" other bike I've seen. I know, I miss being able to see the entire engine too. But c'mon bloke. Think of the artwork you can put on that whopping big frame. | ||
| Rex |
Reliability.....for the Buell product....My Cyclone has almost 30,000 miles and runs fantastic! It is a 97 model, which was the first year.....I Can't complain. The Buell has been the best bike I have ever owned, and I have owned over 25 different bikes, from two strokes to four strokes, from one cyclinder to six....from dirt bike to tourer......It's fun to come back from a ride, and not be able to wipe the smile off of my face......REX | ||
| S2no1 |
All, Some quick comments and then back to work. 1. That 7 lbs in the wheel will make a huge difference in acceleration and unsprung weight. It's a squared function for accelerating a rotating mass, not linear. That make the power to weight ratio even better than it seems. 2. The bike oozes the mass centralatztion concept. If Higbee is the only one at HD who can get a peg to ground, us mere mortals don't stand a chance. I'd suggest some long classes with Fast Freddie or some serious track days. 3. I bet there will be some serious hotrod parts avilable for that baby real soon. Say a new muffler, some different cams and a race ECM. LOOK CLOSELY AT THE VALVE TRAIN and PORTING. Now if Nallin would pop in his thoughts on how to improve the flow.... hmmm. 4. I don't agree with the hubbub about oil in the swingarm. The larger the diameter of the components the stiffer the radius of gyration the lighter the weight. Besides, the oil is probably more towards the front or the swingarm and doesn't have to move nearly as much as the axle. The influence of the fluid weight should be almost nil at that location. 5. Anyone know where I can find VIN No1. to go with my S2? Court, Having fun? Bye for now, back to work. Arvel | ||
| Paulinoz |
Has anybody riden it yet and written about it. The first reports on the H2O HD was a jurno test ride. Is it all just display bikes or has sombody thrown a leg over it and let us know what it feels like. 2002 Buell test rides at Homecoming can I pre-book that now. 6 weeks and counting. This factory Tour de force just got a whole lot better. It's got my vote looks very nice a bit Raptor ish but not just a design project some very intresting engineering. Paul Rogers | ||
| Anonymous |
Anyone know if there will be demo rides at Homecoming? | ||
| Paulinoz |
Friday and Saturday BattleTrax, Demo Rides & Stunt Shows at Harley-Davidson Powertrain Operations, Pilgrim Rd I cant see the demo rides being last years bikes. | ||
| Chuck |
no doubt...it's different in every sense...but I'm really disappointed that the ugly frame hides so much of the engine...oh well...maybe it will look better when it's in my garage  | ||
| Tripper |
Man some o' u guys are fickle (but not nearly as fickle as over at ATC, sheesh). If you can find fault with that bike by looking at it, then you sure as hell don't deserve to ride it. So good, more for me as there won't be many coming out the factory door I'll guess! Has there ever been a bike with this radical of steering geometry put on the street? What are the typical meaasurements used in 500cc grand prix? I gotta try this, it must be wild. Anyone in CO asked Aaron if he likes the pictures? Maybe he will finance me on his slot... | ||
| Buellman |
Another good question, the XB comes in any color you want, as long as it is white or blue. As for this MSRP trade in drivel.... it's just that, drivel. This may be one of the first Buells that may just require a deposit to buy. Expecting some sort of Company sponsored trade in on your current Buell? Uh....as our Northern bretheren would say.... fuggitaouboutit. I am trying to get a ride on the XB for 'journalistic' reasons, but so far I have received a response along the lines of 'Boy, what have you been smokin, cat puke?'. For the benefit of all who bless the presence of this board I shall endeavour to fetch a ride upon this new Sportfighter (yes, that's an official term), and will not rest until I can place my arse upon this fine machine. Otherwise, I have been guaranteed a ride on September 25 at Texas World Speedway. Whenever I can get a ride you can count on a full and realistic evaluation. I should have a pre-productin XB shortly thereafter to give to the great Dave Rash at D&D Exhaust to provide us with a suitable exit for the spent gasses and a proper mapping for a PowerCommander. I promise you this, as soon as I can get my grimy little hands on some cylinder heads I will give them to the Ragin' Cajun, Brian Nallin, to work his magic. 100 RWHP is my objective, and I think it is possible, just remember, it may cause a loss of torque..... 8000rpm is the magic number and Brian will make it happen. Any LA Buellers got a spare I can explore the local tarmac on (don't forget a XXL brain bucket)? I am feelin the need. Lovin' life in LA. Brad Sport Twin | ||
| Fogcity |
Neil - You think BMC should offer some kind of trade-in? | ||
| Firemanjim |
Well I won't sell the S-2,but the KTM 620 is going bye bye to make room in the garage.I'll stop looking at ads for R-1100s's for now.I may actually wait for a test ride this time,but I did call my dealer today and will be talkin' to him tuesday.Maybe ride something different to Bonneville this year.RKA wanna make some bags?I wonder if it comes in fire engine red? | ||
| Ralph |
Man, that must be one big ass scoop on the left hand side that we can't see (mostly) in the pictures. I still like it. Looks good. I especially like the 7500 rpm redline. The more I look at those photos the more I see. Lots of changes. Much of it looks like money/time saving production stuff. F'rinstance, heim joints gone bye-bye. Just dogbones now. Less money, no adjustment. Speaking of which, on the photo from the top with the "tank" cover off, check out the BF cable on the dogbone. Looks like a ground? But at the same time that frame and swing arm are awesome! Nothing sitting around doing nothing. Each peice is pulling its own weight and more. That is some fantastic design work. Erik Buell was way outside of the box (sorry Neil, had to say it ). The heads are somewhat of a puzzle too. The angle of the intake face looks much the same as a "standard" head. Don't see a reason why they couldn't be adapted to the older engines. A different piston would have to be used but that's what J&E is for. I really, really wanted to hear four valves per head. Oh well. The ports are very different though and I'm sure an even greater improvement over the Thunderstorms. A set my find their way onto the S1 Blake, Blast piston is 3.125. Standard 1200 pistons are 3.5. I know that Blasts use 1200 cylinders (underbored) so there must be enough case to run pistons out that large, no sweat. The only issue becomes balancing. As far as the color goes, don't sweat it. You know those panels are just like the X1 and Blasts. Cast in color. That'll be the "big" upgrade for the bike next year..."New!! Yellow crap for your blue bike". Saves so much effort over having to actually work for a real improvement. If you like 'em but not the color, just buy it. The entire plastic set'll probably be around a hundred bucks. Arvel baby, you are dead right about those wheels. Beautiful work. Nothing wasted, nothing extra. Evidently it has a .550 lift cam in it though so it's pretty tall already. It's going to be tough for people to understand this bike, I think (kind like all Buells). The power is going to look all wrong compared to the Japanese 600's. But I think it's going to be a fantastic bike in the real world. That light weight and torque, wow. I still would have like to have seen a different motor. Not necessarily water cooled but at least an off set crank pin so those rotten rods would go away. Oh well. I'll definatly be waiting for a test ride. I doubt I'll be getting one though, I like my "old" Buells. bighairyralph | ||
| Topcat |
bighairyralph, sorry but you're incorrect about the Blast! bore. the Blast bore is 3.4978" the 1200cc Sportster is 3.498". the Blast has the same bore (give or take a couple of tenthousands of an inch) but a shorter stroke so it will rev a little higher. that is if we ever get an ECM with a higher rev limit. TC | ||
| Bradgross |
Folks, I present to you the LEFT side of the firebolt. Enjoy, bradG http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/detail?sectionID=212131&documentID=74239 | ||
| Aikigecko |
Body Panels for a Blast are $180...I know because I just decided not to order all four. Whoever said that the photo's were better than porn is right I've got the blue one as wallpaper on both my computers I keep clearing the screen to stare. | ||
| Buellgatti |
Gad !, lets give Eric and Harley Davidson a pat on the back for what looks like a job well done. But like Bigharryrocket in England, my S2 is more Buellish than this new one and I plan to keep it... jp | ||
| Bradgross |
here's a thought about this new machine, It appears that the headlights were an afterthought. Why go to all the trouble build cutouts for the headlights that look like that only to put circular ones in? I'm guessing that they were going to put some reflector ones that would fill that void but ran out of time. anybody want to tell me that I'm wrong? If I bought that bike, that would be the first thing I would change | ||
| Buellman |
Bradgross: To each his own, not everyone likes the same style, hence Henry Ford deciding that black is not the only color. The Firebolt is NOT for the masses. Your opinion is valued none the less. I had a nice discussion with Erik tonight and will elaborate more on it tomorrow. Lots of potential in the current powerplant. I appreciate everyone's comments and emails that I have received, I work for Buell of Dallas, eat, sleep and dream Buells because I love what they represent and the thrill that they give me every time I put a leg over one. I, like most folks, are never satisfied with the level of performance that is produced by 99% of the stock vehicles built, having said that, the Firebolt represents something revolutionary. I truly believe that this maybe the finest handling motorcycle ever produced, I admit that I have not ridden one but have talked with many that have, their comments were all the same, "standard setting". I have many comments in the Sport Twin forums and on the pages where I have published photos, but until I ride the XB I don't think I can realistically comment on the performance potential of this motorcycle. I have been blessed with the opportunity to speak with the finest minds in the motorcycle industry and am thoroughly convinced that the Firebolt represents a watershed in motorcycle engineering. Vibration? Tuned to a minumum, these guys spent a huge amount of time tuning isolators and chassis harmonics to give us the smoothest possible experience sans a counterbalancer. Looks? World class, nothing else comes close. Engineering? Again, many firsts, fuel in frame, oil in swingarm, perimeter brakes...the list is lengthy. Real World Performance? How many of us REALLY get to ride 160 plus? I grew up in the vast regions of West Texas tearing up some of the longest roads around on GSXR's, FZR1000's and the like, seeing speeds of 170 plus, I can count on one hand how many times I did that. Those of us who have had the opportunity to own/ride various types of motorcycles have, I think, have an appreciation for machines that give us a thrill every time we hit the STREET. The Firebolt represents a motorcycle that can be enjoyed to the max on the street AND on the track. Price? Under 10k for sure, maybe even under 9500.00. What a value for cutting edge engineering. HP? Hey guys, you know we are going to squeeze more out. Buell has given us the base product that will out handle, out brake and out style anything else in existance, HP is just a turn of the wrench away. I for one will not sell my 98 S1, it represents a point in history that will be remembered for all time, a design that is the basis for what we see today... instantly collectible for sure. I will also embrace the XB for what it is, undertanding what it isn't and appreciating it for the very same reason. I wish you could all be here to see this incredible machine because photos and specs just don't do it justice, you will understand when you see one in person. I bring you the photos and descriptions in my own words in hopes that you might understand what the Firebolt really means to motorcycling in general and Buellers specifically. I can't wait for all of you to see and ride this wonderful creation, for many it will literally make you rethink what a motorcycle is meant to be. Thank your for visiting Sport Twin when, if you do, I donate my time and enthusiasm only because I love and appreciate what Erik Buell has given all of us. By the way....obviously I am in LA and being around all of this great machinery has given me the need for speed, any pointers as to where I can rent anything fast to explore this great part of the country with? Sincerely, Brad Galbraith Sport Twin http://www.sporttwin.com | ||
| Captpete |
Aside from all the raving about engineering and styling, I have to listen to the voice of practicality: My S1W-tortured ass. As soon as the top view popped up on the monitor, it screamed, "BUY IT." | ||
| Raymaines |
Brad: The headlights are shaped like a Pegasus. | ||
| Bradgross |
OOOHHHhhhhh... Man I'm stupid. You're right it is shaped to look like a Pegasus. I still think a multireflector would look better than the projectors but as Brad said, "to each his own." I want the bike. Where does the queue start? bradG | ||
| Jmartz |
While not surprised I was dissapointed HD chose to power the new Fireblast with a repackaged mid 1950's motor. I had hopes that the new Buell would be competitive with the present field but no way is this low revving pushrod motor with a parasitic chain driven primary drive sporting a 5 speed trans is going to do it. Powerplant aside, the styling, fluid storage and double oil coolers are very innovative. We have finally lost the generator gear cover, the skirted cam cover and excess metal oval primary case. I finally feel free to consider other brands as I search for a replacement for my tired 1996 S1. My next bike has to be a bit faster than this new Buell is going to be. Someone said on this page "we didin't buy our bikes because they were the fastest, had the best service or were the most problem free" and neither did I, but after 6 years of tooling around with 75 RWHP and then 95 after a lot of effort and $, I'm ready to get on something a little faster. | ||
| Court |
Brad: Queue starts right behind me....my deposit for a white one gets wire transferred to Topeka. The "trees" comment, yesterday, was in view of the fact that all of the "perimeter brake gyro" and "unsprung weight" comments were based on the highly inaccurate assumption of traditional wheel and tire weights. Who'd a thunk Erik would be out attacking wheel and tire weights. My thougths: Gifted collaboration of genius. Court - Mine's white | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Hey, they did listen...there's a damn clock in the gauges! About freaking time! That third trip meter is kinda cool too. Magnesium subframe for the gauges and fairing...cool. The more I think about it...the more I like it. True to his roots this design is, lots of potential for more hop-ups, lots of thought given to lower regular maintenance, same weight as a R1 w/ shorter wheelbase and steeper geometry - torque is same or close to what a R1 is too! Guess if I lived near the autobahn I'd bitch about the hp, but if it'll get to 100mph as quick as anything else, I'm happy. I just hope they spent as much time and effort on reliability and FI mapping as they did on other aspects. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Yep, right on Court...I really didn't think they would combat the cons of the perimeter system w/ a superlight wheel. Only wheels I could think of would magnesium wheels which are too expensive and not durable on the street. Didn't really think "out of the box"-enough on that one. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
As I assume the M/C industry is similar to the car industry and the mfg. look for customer feedback.... If that MCN article is right on the price...BMC has even more work ahead of them! ••••, even being favorable and assuming lots of taxes you might be in the 9,500-10,000K range. Hell, all it's direct competition is less than 8K! Sell it between 8-9K (or less) and they've got a winner. 10+ K is ridiculous...especially as this is the Cyclone replacement, no way it warrants premium pricing. Time will tell. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Hans |
José, Same voice who whispered a year ago about oil and gas within the frame and a kind of double blast air/oil cooled engine with pushrods and airfilter where you should expect the tank now murmured about next years Firebolts right out of the crate with another engine and much more HP. Let`s keep it on (much) more than 125 HP, to stay safe on the low side. Take notice and remember when you are considering another brand.. Hans | ||
| Ralph |
Rats! Topcat, I switched the bore and stroke. Darn it, darn it, darn it. bighairyralph still trying to figure a way to get those awesome new wheels on the S1 | ||
| Tripper |
Damn you Hans, I was ready to jump, now I'm torn. | ||
| Tripper |
MCN is quoting: 95bhp at 7200rpm and an impressive 68ftlb of torque at just 5500rpm Buellman, are you able to verify this if still at the show? | ||
| Jmartz |
Tripper: If this is crank HP your bike is still the world's fastest pumpkin. Hans: I hope you right about a future model with more power. 125 RWHP is just about right for me. Harley modernized its 2002 V-Rod, maybe Buell will also in the near future. | ||
| Lee |
Can anyone speculate as to whether or not Buell is going to stuff that Harley/Porsche motor into the firebolt chassis before I run out and buy the XB?!!!! Please anyone, Court, Jose.......... Lee (waiting, waiting........) | ||
| Eeeeek |
hehehehhehe...10:1 compression = BOLT ON TURBO, BABY! Vik | ||
| Davegess |
LSR_BBS, 8000 pounds works out just about right. If you back just the 17% VAT you get $10250 and ther has to be an easy $500 of transport and import duties to also take off. (As an American, we all think we pay too much in taxes, we cannot begin to appreciate just how much extra vehicles cost in Europe 'cause of taxes.) The 2001 X1 lists at 8195 British pounds so 8000 is about 300 bucks cheaper. Dave | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Dave, I fully appreciate how much the Europeans are taxed...I was comparing the price in pounds with what other bikes cost in pounds according the MCN website. Just a quick run through, speed tripple is less than 8,000 (over priced too); R1 less than 7,000, 600cc's less than 6,000...monster S4 is 7,500!!! That's water cooled and more power. Yep, and $10,250 is about $2,251 too much in my book. It's cool, maybe a great bike, but too much $$$ considering the competition and the parts on that bike...and the fact that it seems fairly obvious this will be the cyclone replacement. No ohlins, or equivalent suspension. No excessive use of carbon fibre, or any that I see. No Ti etc... $8-9k and they've got a winner. 10+k is just too much for that bike. For over 10k I can buy more exotic, faster, better bikes. Under 9K the competition is tough but a much more even playing field. So, if they do a hi-po version later as the ligtening replacement...12K+...ha! Right. Hell, I can buy a Mille R for that. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Davegess |
LSR it should come in at a bit under 10000 by my calculations maybe as low as 9500 based on that British number. I know it's not you cup of tea but the numbers look pretty good to me. Should out handle and in the 20 to 80 mph range out accelerate most of the bikes that you mention. Not mention the exclusive nature of the beast, you will see a lot more Yamaha 600s that for sure. As usual Buell has pretty much avoided the direct comparasion game. the bike is so different that it hard to come up with a good direct comparasion. Sure an R1 has simialar weight numbers but it is a racer rep and this certainly is not. Plus I suspect the Buell will show a LOT less unsprung weight and will run circles around it in the twisties. Handling will feel more like a 600 EXCEPT it will make great big gobs of torque so it will not feel anything like riding a 600. The closest is probably the 748 Ducati series and using UK prices it is in the ballpark. Of course in tru internet fashion we are spouting off about things we know nothing about ;)) As the US Pricing can be very different than the UK pricing and the UK price that MCN gave was speculative. Anyways it it comes in at $9500 it will be a smash. Right on the money as far as i am concerned. DAve | ||
| Davegess |
I have just heard form a very authoritative source that as cool as the bike looks... it is way, way cooler to ride. Since it looks very cool indeed and this fellow has very discriminating motorcycle tastes i would say this thing is F***ING GREAT. We will learn more when the magazines are allowed to ride it. Dave | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Of course in tru internet fashion we are spouting off about things we know nothing about ;)) How true...but it's fun. I'd pony up 9-9.5K, maybe, if the test ride is impressive enough. Time will tell. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
It was a while in coming but the new buell.com is fantastic. Good splash value, looks professional, but...eh hum, where/what's MSRP??? And that blue....jeez, the more I look at it, the more I want one. Please let the DDFI work right, please let the DDFI work right, please let the DDFI work right. Lower seat height, more suspension travel, greater load capacity...all in the right direction. See, all our bitching, er, constructive criticism did lead to improvements. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Hans, Back in July of last year I created and posted the following picture  It got some reaction. Later when the "2002 Buell Speculation" Thread began (at my suggestion, actually). I posted the following on March 26, 2001: <I>My magic 8 ball shows me at least four tracks: The Blast "platform" will branch out in three directions: The current Blast!: hopefully with real footpegs next year! A Dirt Track Blast!: Jay on ATC already posted the photos of this and wrote about it in the Weather Report. HD desperately needs a new dirt track bike to replace the XR750, and a Thumper trail/dirt bike is a natural, or even a 750 V-twin Blast! for the SuperTrackers class, which will eventually replace the Grand National (XR750) class. Hopefully it will be light. The current X1, M2 and S3 will be replaced with Blast! based 50 degree air/oil cooled V-twins. The Blast V-twin will be shared with the Sportster, and will be available in two versions: A revver - The new X1/S1 will use the Blast bore/stroke 3.5" x 3.125" with a top end able to rev to 8500 rpm. Figure 115-120 hp at the crank, so 100-105 hp a the rear wheel, and 400-410 lbs WET weight. A torquer - The Sportster, M2 and the S3 will get a 3.75" x 3.6" motor, good for 105 hp at 7200 rpm at the crank, so 90-95 hp at the rear wheel, but more torque than the current motor. The Sportster version will be chromed out and only make 75 hp due to the "Harley Correct" dual pipes w/crossover and single carb sticking out the right side. All the bikes will share the frame and basic packaging as the Blast! (oil in the frame, exhaust underneath, shock in the back, not UNDER the bike, battery in the tail). New features: rim brakes as shown in Battle Twin Volume 3, Issue 3, page 58, 50 degree V, air/oil cooling, three valve heads, titanium valvetrain, twin intake runners with with four injectors (two per intake), air box under the tank sharing space with fuel, and additional fuel stored under the seat. The S1 will get a half fairing similar to the Eurocomponents fairing or the current Tilley Race bike fairing, the S3 will get a restyled fairing, and the M2 will remain the "naked" model. Hopefully the prices will be more in line with the competition. And finally, the "Flagship/Win on Sunday/Sell on Monday" model: HD will slowly get out of the VR1000 superbike program as Buell takes it over. Whatever results from the "rebuilding" of this race program will be sold under the Buell label, and will eventually be raced in World Superbike, and GP if they got the balls. Buell needs this bike bad, if they have any hope of expanding their market share, particularly in Europe. Hopefully they will decide to sell more than 50 copies, in Poland, like they did last time. Of course this will probably all be wrong, but it's what I think will happen.</I> Now, I had absolutely NO inside information! I know nobody from HD/Buell, except name (withheld by request), and he asked me point blank "How do you know so much about the new Buell?" a month ago at the Harrisburg battletrax. "Educated Guesses" is what I told him. | ||
| Jasonl |
SEE! We is smert sometimes! (spell check courtesy of Anon) | ||
| Sparky |
Wow, I'm looking at the Firebolt's front wheel thinking how can it be so light and the spokes so impossibly delicate when it hits me -- the rim mounted rotor feeds all its braking force directly to the fork leg and not through the spokes/hub! That must be what ZTL (Zero Torsion Loading) means. Ingenious! I can't wait to ride one. Sparky 96S1, 98S3, ... | ||
| Jonathan |
Roadracingworld.com says that there is a Buell prothunder race version already being developed as we speak. Thats the version I want! | ||
| Hans |
José, You did indeed and I almost forgot. And now your last prediction about the Buell Flagship is within reach, based on the Firebolt. I reckon with an estimated chance of 85 % that it will come next year on the market. After looking at your creation again, without meaning to minimize your great vision: What a piece of art is that Firebolt. Hans. | ||
| Blake |
Brad (henceforth officially know as Scoop : White or Blue only  ?! I'm happy enough with my (new to me) '97 M2 to wait for the Black to become available as I expect it will in the near future. If HP can be increased (via headwork, PCIII, Race ECM, Race Exhaust, airbox mods) and I agree that it surely can be, the torque will follow suit. Why would you say that "...it may cause a loss of torque"?  . Can you confirm the HP and T numbers (95 BHP/64 FT-LBs) stated by MCN? They are significantly different from what we heard yesterday. LSR: Dude! Sounds like you ain't gettin any. Sheesh man! The XB9R is easily worth $9,500 in my book. It is a first of it's kind, ground breaking exotic machine and should not be compared to the likes of ANY Jap sportbike. That's like comparing the Hot Redhead to the milktoast dime-a-dozen girl next door. Consider how much would it cost to upgrade a Jap bike to the XB9R's fuel-in-frame and trick front brake/wheel configuration. And then there's that clock too!  And why are you thinking that the XB9R is a replacement for the M2? Will the XB9R beat an R1 from 20 to 80 MPH?: Let's not delude ourselves here; I have to speak up for ole Peter_T on this one. NO WAY! Guys, the R1 at the same weight has near 140HP! It would be an embarrasing roll on drag race for the XB9R. Now, in the real world twisties, in the hands of someone who can come close to taking advantage of the full potential of these motorcycles... well, we'll hafta wait for the moto-rags' ride reports. It sure looks promising though. Jmartz: You said "While not surprised I was dissapointed HD chose to power the new Fireblast with a repackaged mid 1950's motor. I had hopes that the new Buell would be competitive with the present field but no way is this low revving pushrod motor with a parasitic chain driven primary drive sporting a 5 speed trans going to do it." Firstly, if you consider the Blast and XB9R powerplants as simply a form of "... a repackaged mid 1950's motor..." you could easily say the same for ANY commercially produced engine on the market today. DOHC water cooled four valve/cyl engines, and even supercharged engines have been in existence for over 50 years! While I agree that the XB9R powerplant shares a common base configuration with the old HD Sportster engines, it is not simply a "repackaged" version of such. Rather, it makes use of totally new technology in the way of a state-of-the-art combustion chamber design with a 10:1 compression ratio, high tech valves/springs, advanced forced air cooling system, advanced performance tuned exhaust system, computer controlled ignition, computer controlled fuel injection, RAM air downdraft intake, advanced breather and lubrication systems. At 95HP/59CI the power to displacement ratio is a VERY impressive 1.6 HP/CI (95HP/L). It is extremely misinformed to say that just because an engine is air cooled and has hydaulic pushrod valve actuation with two valves/cyl that it is an antique/outdated design. As far as the 45 degree V-Twin with common crankpin configuration... Consider that the only significant disadvantage to such a configuration has been the inherent vibration that it produces. Since Buell has solved the vibration problem through astute mounting and isolation techniques, they are thus free to exploit the significant benefits of the 45 degree V-Twin configuration, an extremely simple, narrow, and compact engine. And what exactly is so parasitic about a primary chain versus a gear driven primary? The chain is quite efficient. Maybe you were thinking of the secondary drive belt? | ||
| Blake |
Jose (henceforth known as "Buellstradamus"): You pretty much nailed it. Maybe you should get a "900" number and make your own infomercial. heheheh | ||
| Tripper |
Blake, I'm with Jmartz. Call the new engine config the EvolvedEvo. HD snapped up Revolution for the water pumper. I am more impressed with that motor today, but it does look too big to ever fit in the Firebolt frame. We will see, or not. | ||
| Blake |
I've been referring to the latest version of the 1200cc as a "Thunderstorm" engine. Along that line of thinking the XB9R powerplant would be a "Firestorm"? I like it. | ||
| Buellman |
Blake, 68 ft/lbs is correct, I was given the initial 80lb number in error yesterday. Scoop | ||
| Edmanning |
Lets see, My 97M2 called for 80 ftlbs. And actually put out 75ftlbs with a K&N and a V&H, Im wondering now if the Firebolt will put out much over 60 with the same mods. Ah hell I still want one. Ed "Hillbilly" Manning | ||
| Buellman |
I have posted some new info in the XB Quick Board. New photos are on Sport Twin. Brad Sport Twin http://www.sporttwin.com | ||
| Drandall |
XB9R: I love it! Why? Because it's unique; the CBR/FZR/GSXR/Ninja are all the samn damn bike, and I'm totally sick of them (having owned three of that exact thing in my past). I am absolutely pleased Buell has gone-out-on-a-limb like this, and am waiting for a new S4 along the same lines. I thought I was going back to Ducati, but this new concept may just well keep me buying American. Tootles, Dave '00 X1-RS | ||
| Drandall |
Neil G., The injection on my '99 S3 and '00 X1 has worked fine; I truly think there were some duds, but I can't complain at all about how mine ran/runs. Dave '00 X1-RS | ||
| Jmartz |
Blake: I take back the mid 20th century comment but the fact remains that this new Buell (as well as the rest of the line) is just not going to outperform anything in its field. Handling isn't everything especially if you cant't keep up. Got word today from someone at the dealership I frequent that there will be another new introduction next year. Perhaps that will be the one. | ||
| Kevyn |
JMartz, Well, if we can't out run 'em, we'll just have to outride 'em... XB9R is freakin' awsome, sure hope that I can corral one for my stable. The S1W, S2T and XLCH will be mighty proud to make room for a pup like that! |
