| Author | Message | ||
     Hunger |
I'm having strange issues with my 2006 Ulysses after TPS reset. On normal settings (AFV ~100%, TPS ~5% on idle) the RPM fluctuates heavily, with average way below 1000. The engine stalls after few seconds when cold, when hot it holds on but still fluctuates. Here's the video. Settings are: AFV 120%, TPS 5% (I've increased AFV, otherwise engine would stall): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1WuX8MwMI1cTGZSN nZRX2l0NFU/view?usp=sharing All of this started last week when I was at the bike service. This was actually the first time I've had ECMSpy connected to my Uly. We discovered that it had AFV set to 143% (!) and TPS showed 0% on idle which was obviously wrong, although the bike was running quite OK on such settings (small fluctuations when cold). Nevertheless we reset the TPS, set AFV to 100% and got what I just described. Is it possible that someone tried to mask other issues by 'cheating' the ECM? I've noticed that someone had tinkered with ignition timing (worn screws on timing cover) - could that be the cause? What would you suggest? Where to start? Thanks for responses. | ||
| Greg_e |
I would check the static timing. With afv that high, I would start suspecting really bad gas, clog in the fuel system, bad filters on the fuel pump, or bad pump. My 9r used to have pretty high afv, changed the pump and the numbers went down a bit. | ||
| Teeps |
Clean the throttle body & throttle valve. Some carb spray on a clean cloth is all that is needed. Then redo TPS reset with engine at operating temp. Set the AFV to 100%. Start engine set idle speed = 1100 RPM. Go ride the bike for 30 minutes or more. If possible ride for at least 10 minutes with RPM at 3000. Then recheck AFV. If AFV is still high check for intake seal leakage. | ||
| Firemanjim |
With it that high I would look at failing fuel pump | ||
| Hunger |
The throttle itself looked clean... And TPS seems to show correct after reset. But I'll re-check. I see there's no other choice but investigate all the possibilities starting from the easiest, that is throttle and intake. We'll see... | ||
| Greg_e |
If you pull the pump, no matter what you find it should have new pre and post filters. If you are planning to keep this cycle, changing the pump with one from an auto store gets my vote, cost me around $110 for the pump and another $15 for filters. | ||
| Phelan |
Greg, can you post which pump and filters you went with? Thanks. | ||
| Hunger |
Is there any way to test the fuel pump without pulling it out? It seems to be a lot of work. Plus I can hear it running when I switch on the ignition so I'm having doubts about its malfunction. (Message edited by Hunger on July 28, 2015) | ||
| Greg_e |
When it gets loud, it's time to replace it! Finally found the thread, about half way down. I bought the input strainer from asb, but the rest was from autozone. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/684355.html?1340156441 | ||
| Hunger |
Thanks, Greg. There's actually one thing I did not mention. I had the exhaust replaced with Stealth exhaust. I disregarded this because when I set the ECM back to 'weird' settings (AFV 140%, etc.) the RPM is quite stable, on the new exhaust too. So I ruled it out, maybe to early. Do you think it's worth to change back to stock to check? (Message edited by Hunger on July 31, 2015) | ||
| Firemanjim |
Put a fuel pressure gauge on and turn key on, pressure should go up to 50+ and hold there. Running it should not drop as load increases. | ||
| Hunger |
Guys, is it likely that it's due to bad IAT sensor? | ||
| Firemanjim |
Doubt it, they don't cause as much fluctuation as a bad engine temp sensor | ||
| Hunger |
I do get a weird reading from engine temp sensor. Are sensors compatible across the all XB12 models? | ||
| Greg_e |
Engine temp, intake air temp, should be the same for all XB within certain year ranges. Basically the only real difference between 12 and 9 is pistons and crank. Bore is the same. For a few years throttle body and injectors were different, so that is another thing to look out for. Iat is pretty cheap, I think head temp is also pretty cheap, so you may consider replacing both. When I rebuilt my top end, I replaced both, after all the other money it just seemed like the extra didn't matter. | ||
| Nillaice |
It took a lot of head scratching and frustration but I found that I recently had 2 relays poop the bed (one on my xb9 and one uly) the 9 would sometimes not start and the dash would blink and gauges sweep. Uly made me think the fuel pump was hooped and it would not idle or run smoothly unless at WOT which sounds fun until you actually ride it for more than 10 minutes on public roads.  (Message edited by Nillaice on August 29, 2015) | ||
| Hunger |
Here is my epic Buell repair finally coming to an end. After unsuccessfully checking it piece by piece, replacing intake flanges & seals, cleaning injectors, replacing o-rings and days of pondering I decided to go all the way and replace the throttle body as it was the last element that could be leaking and I was pretty confident I had an intake leak. I found a brand new throttle module on ebay - that is with injectors, fuel rail, TPS and the idle cable for only $250 (well... not exactly - add shipping and customs tax and you get $400) so I thought: why not. If something's wrong and you can't figure out what, just replace *everything*. Simple? And if it doesn't help, well... go and hang yourself. This time I decided to rotate the engine to have more room to properly clean the installation surface. This has taken me 2 days and the second day I left the garage at 3 AM but finally solved the problem. Not only stable idle is kept on factory settings but also the jerky behavior and stuttering on low throttle application is gone for good (!). All to my surprise because I had really lost all the hope. Now I'm planning to disassemble the old throttle module and have a closer look, maybe I'll find out what was the exact source of the leak. | ||
| Hunger |
And I could just have bought a scooter...  | ||
| Sagehawk |
Have you found anything with old throttle body yet, Hunger? Still curious about what created the whole issue. And secondly, how are those new flanges working with your current setup? | ||
| Hunger |
I didn't have time to look at the old throttle yet. I'm using last days of the season to ride and test the Stealth exhaust before the snow falls. I'll have more time for tinkering in winter. As for the flanges, their only function is to be airtight I guess. By the way I think my stock seals/flanges were not leaking after all but since I had already got a replacement ones which are supposed to be better I used them. I've got exactly those flanges: http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/artikelen.asp?cid=7&aid=189 By the first look they are well manufactured and fit snug to the manifolds. And they look quite cool in my opinion  I'm not able to tell more now, will have to wait a few thousands km to see if they keep doing the job. Right now the bike seems to be just a little faster.  (Message edited by Hunger on December 06, 2015) | ||
| Hunger |
Since things went back to order my enthusiasm for looking at the bad guy back again has obviously faded, hence the delay. Apologies for that. I don't have much time in general so I was postponing that over and over. In any case, I've disassembled the old throttle. Well, almost.  Any idea how to get rid of that screw? What size of allen key is that? The other one went out easy with 2.5mm. This one's worn off and probably seized so I'm just turning around. Tried to grab it and turn with pliers to no avail. In any case, I don't see any cracks or visible damage on the throttle body itself. I cleaned it as much as I could with the valve in place. We have a suspect however.  The plastic ring/bushing around the shaft (TPS side) looks damaged and when you spray it with carb cleaner it does leak inside. But would that be enough air to supply engine? (idled with TPS 0% - fully closed plate). Also I'm not sure if the TPS doesn't just cover it (pics at the end of post).  Also you can see that the other side is leaking too, a little bit. But until I can get that screw out and remove the shaft I'm unable to inspect it. I've also noticed the throttle plate itself leaks quite badly. But I think I've just made it loose when wrestling with the screw... I did the same test back then when it was still on the bike and it wasn't that bad at all. More pics, the TPS:   I'm going for holidays tomorrow. I will get back to it next week. Until then an idea on the shaft screw problem would be appreciated | ||
| Sagehawk |
Hunger, that's truely a ugly looking tps. See if it is sound with an ohm meter electrically. The inside with slot is dirty like you were leaking into or thru it. I'd say rebuild all of that and keep as a spare. That probably would leak enough air to create all of the issues you had. You'll never know unless you put the rebuilt manifold back on and try it. On the screw, look on threaded side a see if it is staked. May have to take a Dremel and grind back till stake is cleared. If loctite is suspected, grab on of the little butane micro torches and pinpoint some heat onto screw / shaft . Don't go crazy with heat. A small amount should soften loctite enough to release screw. After get it loose and out, you'll have to check shaft to make sure it's still straight and you haven't warped it. Poor man's way is roll it on glass plate and see if bent. Good luck, let us know, and enjoy your holiday! | ||
| Sagehawk |
Hunger, that's truely a ugly looking tps. See if it is sound with an ohm meter electrically. The inside with slot is dirty like you were leaking into or thru it. I'd say rebuild all of that and keep as a spare. That probably would leak enough air to create all of the issues you had. You'll never know unless you put the rebuilt manifold back on and try it. On the screw, look on threaded side a see if it is staked. May have to take a Dremel and grind back till stake is cleared. If loctite is suspected, grab on of the little butane micro torches and pinpoint some heat onto screw / shaft . Don't go crazy with heat. A small amount should soften loctite enough to release screw. After get it loose and out, you'll have to check shaft to make sure it's still straight and you haven't warped it. Poor man's way is roll it on glass plate and see if bent. Good luck, let us know, and enjoy your holiday! | ||
| Tootal |
Hunger, what you are seeing in the photo of the tps side is the split bushing. The bushings are split from the factory and are supposed to be that way. When you pull the shaft out you will see what I mean. | ||
| Sagehawk |
Tootal: have you seen any of those bushings trashed out? I haven't had a need to pull mine apart and did not reaize they were split. How do the bushing and shaft seal to each other? There has to be a bit of play but there cant be too much. | ||
| Tootal |
I believe the tps sensor seals that side and the other side just has the felt washer which is more like a filter than a seal. I'm sure we all have a slight vacuum leak through there but it's obviously not bad enough to worry about. If you look at my shaft installation thread I have a blurry picture of the bushings. There have been a couple of guys that had trashed ones from a broken TB shaft. I haven't heard of anyone wearing them out though. | ||
| Tootal |
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| Hunger |
Sorry for no update but I still can't get the damn screw out. From Tootal's posts it's definitely not the bushing that's leaking, for sure. The plate more likely but my wrestling with it and the screw has probably made it a waste anyway  | ||
| Tootal |
Hunger, they are 4 mm screws. At this point I would drill it out. Take a 4.5 or 5mm drill and drill the head off the screw then back it out from the other side. | ||
| Hunger |
I drilled the bastard away! Sorry for no update but I've had absolutely NO TIME lately. Still unsure on the leak's cause but I'm posting anyway for the record.  The inside of throttle body looks neat. On the outside the non-tps side when the shaft comes in it's kind of flattened, also there is that worn-looking 'gasket' (or whatever) but there was play in between the shaft and the holes whatsoever.   You were right about bushings, they are split.  And that's it really. If I have to guess the only real suspects throttle plate or maybe the one of the 'split' bushings. Here's a test I did when it was still installed. On the other hand I did the same test on friend's bike (healthy) and it 'leaked' quite similarly. What do you think? https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1WuX8MwMI1cTlBqUll6T3NQTzA I will keep the parts as spare but I hope the brand new throttle I have now will last enough for the bike's lifetime. (Message edited by Hunger on June 25, 2016) | ||
| Tootal |
Hunger, from the looks of the TB somebody had put it together wrong and the spring had gotten caught between the throttle cable cam and the TB causing the wear marks on the aluminum. Sometimes it can be tricky getting that spring in the correct position. It looks like it was either installed incorrectly or the nut on the butterfly shaft loosened up and allowed the spring to get in between. |
