| Author | Message | ||
     Kbbeckius |
Why isn't there a way to remap the ECM!?!?!? This is one major reason why I wont be buying a XB12S!!! Sure you could use the Powercommander or Techilusion box, but both are just a hack. They only modify ECM data to change the end result. The only real way to fix the problem is remap the ECM. Check this out http://www.tuneboy.com.au/ For the Triumph and other bikes using the Sagem MC2000 ECM. Why isn't there a tool like this available for the XB series bikes!!! What I really don't get is that about the only thing you can buy for speed parts on the Triumph is a high flow air filter and an exhaust can. However, you can get almost everything for the Buell, except a real way to calibrate the ECM. GRRRR!!!! How about using the Sagem ECM on a Buell!!! I think I'll be buying an '05 Triumph speed triple, they finally updated the bike, more power, looks better too... Thx Brad | ||
| Glitch |
Why isn't there a tool like this available for the XB series bikes!!! Dunno. What problem would you have using the PCIII or Techilusion? What exactly do you want to change that these wouldn't do? Oh well, you'll be happy with the Speed Triple I'm sure. Everyone I know that rides one is very happy with it. I like the looks of the new one as well. | ||
| Kbbeckius |
Look and see what you can do with Tuneboy, you can't do that stuff with the powercommander (which discontinued their Buell product!) or techilusion. How about changing the spark tables..... how many Buells have a problem with knock??? Etc. Etc.... There is a big difference in the manner in which they work, recalibrating the ECM's program is the correct way to do it, the others are just a hack, a workaround to sort of get it right. Believe me I've be a Buell fan for more than 10 years now, I still consider getting a S1WL, I love that bike, but it's dated, and tuning carbs, is so 20th century. Let us plug in a laptop and tweak the map, dammit!!! Thx Brad | ||
| Glitch |
For me simpler is better. Techilusion is the way I'll probably go. I don't need all the adjustments that gives, or the money for dyno time (PCIII also)that requires for you to know for sure all is good. You can download all the maps you want, but if they're from someone else's bike, your bike has just been tuned to someone else's specs. I know you want all the tunability you can get, I just don't need or want it. After the timing was set correctly I've not had any ping/knock, so that's not an issue for me. | ||
| Blake |
"how many Buells have a problem with knock?" None of the XB models. You sound like someone looking for any excuse to not buy a Buell. So be it. There are plenty. | ||
| Hogs |
I have a 2004 xb12r, the wife has a 2005 xb12CG , Son has a 2003 xb9s Thanks to TEDK from this Forum now be nice to get other son to trade his Sporty in on a buell as well :-) my point is all three of the above NO PING or Knock.. | ||
| M1combat |
How about a Crane HI4-E and an aftermarket FI controller. You can do anything you want. Next? | ||
| Gonen60 |
I really don't get is that about the only thing you can buy for speed parts on the Triumph is a high flow air filter and an exhaust can. However, you can get almost everything for the Buell, except a real way to calibrate the ECM. GRRRR!!!! Sounds like you are complaining about lack of good Hi-performance upgrades for the Triumph, But Your going to get one anyway. Odd | ||
| Bomber |
generally stated, the more controls, knobs, buttons and adjustments on a device, the worse the user can make it perform sounds like someone is now buying not just a motorcyle via the spec sheets, but the accessories and hop-up parts via THEIR spec sheets, as well -- which, I'm sure, is greatly satisfying to some | ||
| Hootowl |
I am always looking for excuses not to buy a Buell. One of these days my self control will fail, and I will be riding another one home. | ||
| Crip2nite |
I now want a 9 to keep my 12 company and also to ride when the 12 is in the shop and vica-verca!! I need the funds though...anyone feel generous?? | ||
| M1combat |
Same here, I'll be buying a 9 for track use, and I think that maybe all my engine money might go into that one  . Then of course I'll build an XB powered chopper as well and throw a bunch of money into that too... | ||
| Outrider |
Why isn't there a way to remap the ECM!?!?!? This is one major reason why I wont be buying a XB12S!!! I think the proper question would be... What bikes sold in America or any other pollution concerned country that can be licensed for street use come with ECM's that can be modified without help from the aftermarket's little black boxes? I have the feeling the answer to that question is none. Therefore, if you adhere to your rant, I have the feeling you will be purchasing an older bike that was not subject to any air or noise pollution regulations.  | ||
| Kbbeckius |
You sound like someone looking for any excuse to not buy a Buell Yeah, that's why if the dealer I went to Saturday had one I would I would own it today. That's why one of my dogs is named Buell, and why I've owned my Buell race jacket since before Buell was a subsidiary of the "motor company". I still have a '95 Buell model pamphlet somewhere... You guys don't seem to get it... Its called getting all the performance out of what you got. You don't think the factory ECM calibration is a compromise to appease the Government?? (EPA, Noise regs, Etc..) If nobody wanted to change the fuel or spark curve, then what's the advantage of the "race" ecm?? Why do many people add performance parts to their bike, only to have it run worse.... Improper ECM calibration??? and possibly improper parts combo. I guess you some of you it's fast enough (and not top speed fast, I mean acceleration fast). For me that's half the fun of owning a performance vehicle, figuring out how to make it go faster. Jeez, I really don't understand why companies like Nallin are in business.. I guess these bikes are quick enough. Thx Brad PS : You want to know what I really want in a bike?? >150hp & >100ft/lbs Tq <400 lbs dry Radical looks (Streetfighter not repli-racer). Upright seating position. Aggressive suspension. Big Brakes. Easily and cheaply upgraded. And a sound that turns heads. Costs <$12,000 Build it I'll buy it Or whichever bike most closely meets these goals | ||
| M1combat |
That would be the XB12... You won't get 150HP, but you can come fairly close with more torque than you want. We do get it. "You don't think the factory ECM calibration is a compromise to appease the Government?? (EPA, Noise regs, Etc..) If nobody wanted to change the fuel or spark curve, then what's the advantage of the "race" ecm?? " Hengh??? Of course the stock ECM was designed to "appease" the government. More correctly - to keep Buell out of court and in the motorcycle business. The "race ECM" is for track use only... "For me that's half the fun of owning a performance vehicle, figuring out how to make it go faster. " Me too. I think the Buell will be the easiest to get power out of. I'll bet I've got about 3HP for free so far. I haven't even started. It'll never be a gixxer killer in a straight line, but I could care less. It's already a lot more fun. | ||
| Xbolt12 |
If you just had to have a tuneable ECM you could probably figure out a way to get one from a racer. However, if you read Slaughter thread on this part, you will learn that it is way to easy to damage an engine without the proper dyno time and even then you risk damaging a cylinder before you even realize it's too lean. That said and with EPA and CARB getting on HD for Screaming Eagle parts on street bikes, I doubt you will ever see a fully tuneable ECM on a CA legal street bike. Also it seems like all the Japanese bike riders are using PCIII's, so it must be that those ECM's are factory set as well. xbolt12 | ||
| Outrider |
so it must be that those ECM's are factory set as well. Safe assumption there. Sort of like the OEM manufacturers plugging the holes for the adjustment screws on the old carbureters on cars in the early days of the EPA. | ||
| Glitch |
Sort of like the OEM manufacturers plugging the holes for the adjustment screws on the old carbureters on cars in the early days of the EPA. I still had to drill those little buggers out on my Bandit. | ||
| Bigbird |
Brad, Perhaps the following little anecdote will help you. I currently own 6 bikes. Well, not quite. I go to pick up the 6th one this coming weekend. Here is the list: 1) 2004 BMW R1150 GS 2) 2001 BMW F650 GS 3) 1972 BMW R60/5 4) 2002 Moto-Guzzi Le Mans 5) 2004 Buell XB12R 6) 2004 Suzuki DL 650 V-Strom Why so many bikes? The answer is simple. There is no one perfect bike. Every single one of them is a compromise in several aspects. So, which one do I like and why? I like them all because they all have 2 wheels and put me in the wind! If I had to pick one bike to keep out of the bunch it would be the BMW R1150 GS, even though it is currently for sale. It's the most comfortable, reasonably quick, can go on or off road, and carries a boatload of luggage. However, since I don't have to pick one bike to do it all (thank the good lord) I'll tell you why I have a Buell in that eclectic mix of motorcycles. I don't know how old you are or if you have any memory of good ol' American muscle cars. I'm talking about big blocks. 427/435 hp Corvettes, the Hemi 'cuda, 455 ci Olds 442, etc. That's what the XB12 engine feels like to me, except it also happens to reside in the best handling, best cornering chassis I've ever had the pleasure to ride. There is no comparison. But then again, I suppose it depends on where you want to ride it. If you live in Nebraska the Buell isn't going to be as much fun as living in the Smokys. Your new Speed Triple isn't going to beat a ZX-10 or Gixxer in the twisties, but I've already proven to myself and 10 other riders the "lesser" XB12 with the non-programmable ecm walks all over those bikes on a nice, tight, twisty road. Sure, they can pass me on a straight, but who cares. The real embarrassment factor comes in when they get passed mid-corner by a supposedly slower bike, despite the fact that their knee pucks are grinding a track in the pavement and sparks are coming off of their peg feelers. The Buell makes an ok rider like me much better than I really am. It doesn't need all of the tinkering to make it run fast, run right, or run great. It already runs that way the moment you take it home. I don't know about you, but I buy bikes to ride them. I like the fact that I don't have to tinker with the Buell. The '03 XB9 I had proved to be ultra-reliable and cheap to maintain (compare service costs to BMW-it's a real eye-opener), and I don't see any reason for my XB12 to cost any more than the XB9 did. So I'm glad I own it, and sadly I don't have it for the next 2 months. It's being used by a company I cannot yet name as a prototype for the development of lots of CNC anodized billet bling-bling (rear sets, triple tree, bars, etc.). BTW for the rest of you I'll post the details when I can. Anyway, the point is I have 5 other bikes and I really miss the Buell. If you really want something you can tinker with, try Moto-Guzzi. Although it doesn't handle as good as the Buell it is a blast to ride, and almost always broken. It would be perfect for you, because you'd always have something to tinker with. Whether you liked it or not. When the sun was shining. And all your friends were out riding. Yep, a great bike indeed. So, to summarize, you probably really do need to buy the speed triple. Then get your aftermarket air filter, tune the ECM just right, and I'll see you at Deal's Gap. You'll recognize me. I'll be the one passing you on the inside. Then you can go home, tune some more, and try again. In the mean time I'll knock off a couple thousand more trouble-free miles on the Buell.  Last, but not least, Triumphs do blow up occasionally: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52458 | ||
| Tucsonxb9s |
Yeah, that's why if the dealer I went to Saturday had one I would I would own it today. You say you wouldn't buy one because of the stock ECM yet you say that...what gives? You guys don't seem to get it... Its called getting all the performance out of what you got. No actually...we do get it. Tons of guys here tweak their bikes here. Maybe a programmable ECM would make it easier, but they still tinker away squeezing that out last 2 hp. PS : You want to know what I really want in a bike?? >150hp & >100ft/lbs Tq <400 lbs dry Radical looks (Streetfighter not repli-racer). Upright seating position. Aggressive suspension. Big Brakes. Easily and cheaply upgraded. And a sound that turns heads. Costs <$12,000 Obviously it's not a Buell so you will have to look elsewhere. In the meantime, while your still ranting about an unprogrammable ECM, I'll be out riding my Buell! | ||
| Court |
>>>You guys don't seem to get it... I get it, have no need to "engage" you, but will provide the honest answer. 1) LEGAL: Discussed above. Agree or not, it's the law. Penalties are substantial enough to keep firms like General Motors and Harley-Davidson's feet to the fire. Same reason, by the way, why the 1996 carbs had "plugs" (albeit easily defeated) in the carbs. 2) SELF-DEFENSE: A Buells worst enemy can be its owner, yours truly included. As the DDFI system was developed I watched some very "racy" engineers work for months developing the BEST map for a bike that CAN BE SOLD legally. Buell is in the business of selling motorcycles. Now, there are different folks who's personal wants and needs dictate a need/desire for aftermarket stuff based on the individual. The manufacturer can't be in the business of guessing those needs. Buell does E-X-T-E-N-S-I-V-E testing on the DDFI to find the optimum combination of performance, hopefully juuuuuuuuuuuuuust within the limits of the law. They genuinely try to do their best. What they CAN'T is the urban legend "cut this white wire" to allow an unwitting owner (not everyone has Aaron and Pammy's comprehension of internal combustion engines) to destroy their expensive purchase. My gut feeling is that if you, to prompt your purchase, needs a bike that has a fuel injection system that allows an owner to modify the system so that it destroys the bike, you are going to meet disappointment. I don't mean to sound like a smarty-pants, but that is a civil honest answer to your question. Court | ||
| Johncr250 |
The Big Four Japanese Companies all offer real Race kits for there Sport Bikes. With totally progamable FI setups to support engine and exhaust mods. And Suzuki Factory Supported Teams of Yoshimura sell Full race exhaust systems, Fully programable EMS FI Boxes, Quickshifters, Cams, and many other items that the race teams are using right now! http://www.yoshimura-rd.com/ems.asp We can only hope Buell starts to offer some of their Race team Goodies someday please! | ||
| Glitch |
The Buell race guys do have a fully adjustable ECM. Timing curve, fan direction as well as what temp to come on at, ect. | ||
| Johncr250 |
I wish they`d offer the Fully adjustable ECM to the general public. I`m sure it works awesome. | ||
| Outrider |
If you have to have one that bad, try getting one through Hal's Performance Shop or some other Race Team. Heck, perhaps Hoban Brothers has a connection. You won't know until you try, eh? | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
I guess there is a desire to blow the $#!t out of your XB engine. If you got the need, go for it. I have found the stock bike (12R) to perform well, and am VERY happy with my current configuration, Race ECM, Drummer, drilled A/B cover, K&N filter. Once I got the TPS adjustment, the bike has been AWESOME!! | ||
| Glitch |
The race ECM doesn't learn anything. It only does what it's told by you. So if you run it around town, you'd have to re-tune it for a day in the mountains, then again once you got home. If all your running around is only in the same area under the same conditions, you may be able to hold off on re-sets as the weather changes. Not to mention you might just need that all elusive scan tool to set the little bugger up. No one I know or heard tell of has one that doesn't have direct ties with Buell. Looks like we're back to hackin' I'm pretty good at hackin' I'm a geek...it's my job. | ||
| Outrider |
The race ECM doesn't learn anything. It only does what it's told by you. Glitch...Am I correct in assuming you are referring to an adjustable Race ECM? | ||
| Blake |
Or a fully programable Buell Racing Racebike ECM available only to licensed Buell racers. Of course the OEM Buell Race ECM that we can all purchase for off-road use has all the same characteristics of the stock ECM, but provides an EPA non-compliant fuel and ignition curves. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Glitch... one stock 2005 XB9Sx ECM, with a grand total of 4 miles on it, sits in a box in my garage. I don't have time to lead an effort to reverse it, but could probably help. I've done a lot of software on a lot of different platforms, am no stranger to acquisition and control systems, and have done some black box reverse engineering stuff in the past. What do we know about the hardware? Anyone put one of these things under the knife? |
