| Author | Message | ||
     K12pilot |
Ok Gentlemen, Old School guy here needing some help on a sick XB12R, I will try to keep it short winded. I picked this bike up on Thursday night knowing it was a non runner when I was on the way to see it, PO said “it just shut off one night” No crunch no bang no backfire, just shut off. He said he was told it was the timing chain....lol I knew better. Ok, so just shut off could be a .25 fuse or a rod through the engine. I went to look at it with full intentions to take what I need for my winter build & part out the rest. Wheels, front end etc... The price was right for that. So me being me, I threw it on my table to see what I could find, maybe something simple I figured )) Here is what I did/found out: 22k on bike 03 XB12R bike did take a light spill before the PO got it “he says”. It looks to me like rear subframe is a little tweaked, he also said he rode it 1 1/2 yrs “he says” When I turn the key on there is a short screech near the top of the motor, 3-4 sec I can’t tell exactly where it is coming from. I pulled the plugs to crank the motor, I didn’t know how long the bike had been sitting was told about a month, so I figured I would prime the motor a bit just incase it fired up While cranking motor in short bursts with the starter there seemed to be very low pressure coming out of the plug holes, I can hold my finger over the holes. I sprayed some WD-40 down the plug holes & it got better but no where near my other bikes, my comp tester is too big to fit in the plug holes, so I am figuring rings at best case now I put my inspection camera down the plug holes & saw no evidence of either piston hitting valves & no apparent damage to top of pistons, cylinder walls have x hatching & are not gouged from broken rings etc. Check for spark.... none on either plug (grounded to case) also tried a clip on tester, I plugged in an X1 coil I had, still no spark Oil very low in swing arm, idk if it is like the tubers, that it will bleed down into the case or not, but to me this does not seem to be the case since the inlet/outlets are about level w the bottom of case, you tell me.... No obvious damage to cases, no major oil leaks, only minor one at starter gasket, no strange noises when I crank it over with the starter I scrolled threw the FSM on my computer last night that another member set me up with. I have a few checks I want to do, but found nothing major that jumps out at me. Questions: Is there a compression release on these motors? I didn’t see anything in the FSM Low oil shut down? I didn’t see anything in the FSM Tip over sensor should reset itself when uprighted ? Correct? I would like to do a pressure test on the motor, any DIY setups I can rig up? I really don’t have the desire/time to do a tear down & rebuild as of yet, but maybe.. I have 3 bike projects on the table right now, and 14 bikes in the stable, but if I can get it running well & sell it for a few bucks that wouldn’t be the worst thing ( I really don’t want/need another bike at this point as I am thinning the heard anyway right now) Although the bike does intrigue me, & I DO see myself owning one in the future. Thanks for all your help in advance, Ride Safe Chris | ||
| D_adams |
When I turn the key on there is a short screech near the top of the motor, 3-4 sec I can’t tell exactly where it is coming from. Fuel pump, will eventually need replaced when it fails. Check for spark.... none on either plug Weak ground or bad CPS (no signal to fire) Is there a compression release on these motors? I didn’t see anything in the FSM No. Low oil shut down? Not likely unless it seized. Motor turns over fine, probably not an issue. Tip over sensor should reset itself when uprighted ? Mmm, not sure on that one. Just a suggestion, charge the battery, tighten the battery and ground posts, then check all the grounds on it. Sometimes it's easier to just jumper direct from the battery ground to a clean spot on the frame, I used the isolator bolt/strap on the top of the frame at the rear head for a good ground to troubleshoot mine. | ||
| K12pilot |
CPS?? Battery is fully charged Fuel pump is down in the frame, noise is near air intake (Message edited by k12pilot on November 09, 2014) | ||
| Akbuell |
CPS- Cam position sensor. What used to be considered the points in an ignition system. CPS tells the ECU where the crank is in its rotation so it knows when to fire the fuel injectors and spark plugs. Correct re the fuel pump location, but it is the only thing on the bike that runs at ignition on. Second thought, I take that back. Check to see if the fan is coming on. It shouldn't at start up, but . . . Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| K12pilot |
Cps is behind the "points" cover?? Haven't even seen a fan yet... Sorry for being so ignorant on this bike Never touched an XB till thursday | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
CPS?? http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/686969.html?1401399631 Seeing the shift set-up in your other post ,probably the PO dumped the xb himself ,so there is a change that the tip-over sensor is still sticking in the off position. unbolt it and see if its rattle when shake it ,or try to see what it does when trying to start and tilt the sensor a bit. For a diy pressure test , use a old (small)sparkplug and pull the porcelain tip and use the lower threaded part to make a connecting piece for a pressure gauge. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The "no compression" seems really significant, though odd that it would be the same bad in both cylinders. If you have a good cam position sensor, you will be getting spark. If not, you won't. Not the only reason you might not get spark, but an easy test. A CPS can (and often will be) half failing for a while, but at some point it will go dead dead. Same with the Bank Angle Sensor. So seeing if you have spark is an easy way to decide which fork in the road you should start down. If you have spark, then get more serious about a proper compression check. If that fails, then its time to rotate the engine and pull the heads and see how the valves work. Pulling the heads on these motors is actually pretty easy, and you can get them rebuilt pretty affordably, so if it's just valves coated with all things ethanol, you are still only $200 to $300 from a bike that runs better than new (if Cycle Rama does the head refresh). | ||
| K12pilot |
Ok, first off Bill is A HELL of alot smarter than me when it comes to electronics, & prob MANY other things )) Second his bike was running )) So I will pop off the cover either later or in the am tomorrow & also chk the tip sensor(FIRST) headed to sears later to see if they have a comp gauge that will fit, I did bring home a spark plug to try to rig something up No doubt the PO is full of sheet but I don't think HE dumped it since all the bodywork is freshly painted, I doubt he would paint a non running bike, but who knows.... Thanks Guys | ||
| K12pilot |
Bill, is there an "easy" test for the CPS & or BAS on the bike w a meter?? I was typing while you were posting, I type like a chicken I might add lol | ||
| Akbuell |
The Bank Angle Sensor does reset when the bike is picked back up. You do have to turn the ign and stop/run switch off and back on again. To start from the top, when you turn the bike on, does the Check Engine Light come on and then turn off? Or does it come on/turn off/then stay on? If it stays on, there is a current fault. The service manual has a procedure to retrieve the code(s) without the dealer tool. The fan is behind the rear cyl, basically under the front of the seat, in front of the rear shock. | ||
| K12pilot |
I have not checked the engine light out sequence yet as I just read about it last night BAS..ign & stop/run switches have been switched on & off multiple times my check list is growing... I am off tomorrow so u know where I will be Thanks Guys | ||
| Reepicheep |
No easy test. If you put the crank to a position the sensor should be firing at, and leave it there, it should be possible to measure the static 5v value at the right wire at the ECM (easy to get there with a paperclip pushed past the rubber on the back of the Deutsche connector). But you have to have the crank in the right place, which is kind of a hassle without the CPS (you would have to pull the crank timing mark bolt and manually rotate till you see the line). And "half failed" is pretty common, so I wouldn't trust that test anyway. If you put a DVM on it, and slowly rotate the rear wheel through a few engine rotations, and the output doesn't hit both 5v and 0v a few times, it's toast. But the converse (you see it switching on a cold bike at low engine rotation speeds) doesn't mean it is a good one either. | ||
| Reepicheep |
And K12, like I said, don't bother to take off the timing plate cover to test the CPS, easier to tap into the signal up where it comes into the ECM. A paperclip pushed carefully inside the rubber connector and jammed down to touch the metal conductor works great and all you have to do is take off the seat and pick the right wire by colors from the service manual schematic. | ||
| Greg_e |
He said its an R so the ecu is behind the front fairing, only a little work to get there. Bolts around the edges an remove the turn signals and it should come off. | ||
| K12pilot |
Ok I snuck out )) At bike now.. Engine light comes back on & stays on after the 4 sec on off seq Anyone have a fsm handy to tell me what wires to probe at ecm. Only have my iPad w me. Pita to find quick | ||
| K12pilot |
So mar gar is not at my house. ( As of now... Added oil ABS rattles Tested continuity b4 I unplugged it. Noise is coming from L side of frame. (fuel pump) Can feel injectors click when key is turned | ||
| Akbuell |
Actually, I would wait before probing the ecm. Get the fsm and find the section about retrieving trouble codes. You will need to locate the data port connector. With the open end of the connector facing you, with the locking lug at the 12 oclock position, short pins 1 and 2 ( the 2 on the right side of the connector) together and count flashes. Let us know what the trouble code(s) are. The fsm has a good description of the process. Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| Greg_e |
Data connector is under the left headlight, gray color and should have a black rubber plug in the end to keep water out. | ||
| K12pilot |
Can you please give me a page & section number scrolling through the iPad is killer Thank you | ||
| Court |
C..... I'll be home Tuesday and will get you a manual and wiring diagram | ||
| K12pilot |
Thanks Court home now will look on computer but I like paper much better)) I figured out where the data port was)) I jumped 2 right side pins turned key on eng light went through seq than came back on no flashing (idk if it was supposed to) looking on pdf manual now But am I beating a dead horse here if I don't really plan to "rebuild" IDK... Elec is the easy part... 0 compression is the deal breaker here... NO?? Thanks again all for your help here. Chris | ||
| Greg_e |
You could always do a big bore kit if all it needs is cylinders and rings. With new valves and lifters I think my top end rebuild came to right around $2000 and everything was bolt on except I did send the heads to have seats cut and bead blasted to clean them up. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If the bottom end is OK, then I wouldn't be writing the bike off. | ||
| Court |
Rebuild it you will . . . .other options there are not. In motos of matter-cycles . . follow must one's heart, never trust logic and reason for deceive you they will young Buellwalker. | ||
| K12pilot |
Obi-Wan..... Obi-Wan.... Thats the DARK SIDE!!!!  | ||
| K12pilot |
I am not writing the bike off for what it can be... I know it can be saved with money, time and alot of help from you guys. I knew it was a non runner, it was purchased for a reason. I was well aware and prepared for a worst case senerio, I figured elec issue with a shut down situation. Motor cranked, no leaks, no holes, no funny noises. A quick fix would have been great & for the price, for sure!!! And I would probably be riding her for a while. Fuel, Spark & Compression 0 for 3 I will try again to pull the codes & see where that goes, Thanks again, Chris | ||
| K12pilot |
Code 15 air temp sensor | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Air temp sensor is in the airbox. Perhaps the PO opened up the box and messed up something? I wonder if the throttle body shaft broke? That squeak from the top end is puzzling. (Message edited by natexlh1000 on November 10, 2014) | ||
| K12pilot |
Throttle body shaft is fine, Squeak is the fuel pump sheeting the bed I suppose. None the less..... This bike was purchased for parts not another project This is a project I am not going to get myself further into, nor did I intend to. If it was a quick & easy thing I probably would have kept her alive, The no compression issue is the killer for me. This bike is being parted out, it is mostly disassembled already. What I am going to do rather than waste my time on ebay searching & prices, I am accepting best reasonable offers. 10% of all SALE prices (NOT INC SHIPPING) will be donated by me from US to Glitch directly after payment is made When I break even with the purchase minus the parts I am keeping than ALL sales proceeds will be sent to Glitch, by me from US. SOLD prices will be posted for all to see, so offer high & help out a bad webber in need. Here is the bike: I am keeping wheels, forks, trees, bars, brakes, rocker boxes, & some misc BS.. Body work has fresh black paint, fr fairing & mount are trash       BTW...I will be driving down to SC for Tday already have a parts drop at the Maryland house in MD 10pm 11/23 I can bring stuff w me)) (Message edited by k12pilot on November 10, 2014) | ||
| Meggadeath |
Sooo Sad! Another one bites the dust! Oh well, each one that goes to it's reward makes the remaining ones increasingly more valuable! At this rate, I'll have the only two XB's in "captivity" | ||
| K12pilot |
Yes, It is sad. But there are plenty of good parts that will keep other bikes on the road, so come on guys pony up for a good cause. Ride safe, Chris |
