| Author | Message | ||
     Tq_freak |
OK. I am looking for some guidance before I dig deeper. My 05 lightning has been running like crud, spits, pops, sounds like its running on one lung off idle and then takes off. I check plugs and wires and they look good, they are only like 3k miles old. Tried a tps reset and couldn't get it to take, still ran bad so I put a TPS in it. At this time I built a Bluetooth module and was able to watch my O2 and that was dead. So I replaced that and figured great I had it. Ran it back and forth to work for a week (100 miles) and it was running great. then is starting doing the same thing again. spitting, ruff idle, pops threw the throttle body. Not sure where to look next. Cam sensor? dirty injectors? dieing fuel pump? I really hate throwing parts at it and see what sticks. and I don't want to pull the motor in and out 3 times checking stuff, even thought its not that bad of a job it just blows to do it for nothing. you can watch the youtube video I took last night. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2S2NEABecs | ||
| Fotoguzzi |
that flash under the butterfly can't be right.. backfiring thru intake valve? how does the ECM look, crushed down by the seat? | ||
| Doubled |
Have you checked your intake seals? Static timing? | ||
| Gabby_duck |
Had similar problem,First reset AFV,make sure the plugs are not foul.Now start bike if problem is immediate then I would suspect cam postition sensor.If not let idle for 10 minutes.take for a ride if problem starts to come back gradualy {I would suspect ECM}}. Take battery to batteries plus for test.make sure all battery grounds are clean.My problem was the ECM. Intake seal check with propane method.Clean the IAT sensor. keep us informed. | ||
| Tq_freak |
thanks guys I haven't check the static timing yet and I will do that, hopefully this weekend Also said screw it and got another spark plug coming, I had one as a spare/ extra so I'll put 2 new ones in if they have to come out anyway for the static timing. the ones in it are Accel's I picked up local since that's all they had. FYI you can get NGK's on amazon for under $8 a plug | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
That pop under the throttle is scary. Is it possible the timing sensor is sending false signals to the computer? Squirting gas and igniting it when the valve is open? | ||
| Tq_freak |
Well I checked static timing and put new plugs in it. Timing is spot on and the old accel plugs are black Fired it up and still runs like crap So trying to eliminate things before I really dive in. I put a different ecm in Still runs like crap..... Swapped the old tps back in with original ecm back in... Still crap. But I did notice it idles WAY better with either tps in pluged... Hmmm I'm thinking its real fat and I don't know why. | ||
| Tq_freak |
Temped to put some injector cleaner in it or some seafoam and just to see what it does. And /or drain this tank and put fresh gas in it. | ||
| Dwilson357 |
Just to clarify everytime your doing an ECM swap or TPS swap your doing a TPS reset correct? It sounds to me like your TPS reset isn't panning out...you said you couldn't get it to take? What did you mean by that? | ||
| Gabby_duck |
TQ I would change out the cam postition sensor.Before you throw paets can you reset AFV start let Idle for 10 minutes then ride. Dwilson Yes reset tps when changing ecm or tps .TQ freak did you ever get your tps reset done on the 05 bike.TQ have you checked intake seals. | ||
| Tq_freak |
yea I am getting it the TPS to reset. what I meant by "not taking" was I was having a communication issue and it wouldn't zero after sending the command to reset. But Yes I rest the TPS while I was trying everything. I checked the seals once with some carb cleaner, I am going to do it again with the propane method from the manual. | ||
| Dwilson357 |
Do you have access to a timing light? | ||
| Tq_freak |
Well messed with it some more... Think I got a more definitive idea. Did the intake test with a propane torch, not that. Its a front cylinder miss. With it wormed up a little it will thump along and the rear header pipe is way hotter then the front. I can touch the front, can't on the rear. If I give it a little gas and the front comes alive. .... Not good. Really leaning away from can sensor since it is running and there is only one coil so it is getting the signal to fire. I did back probe the ecm with a Dmm and I am getting 5 volts from that sensor when I should be. Thinking now I may swap coil wires front to rear just to eliminate that variable. But thinking I will pull the motor this weekend and take the top apart.. May do a leak down test first to confirm but my suspicion is a burnt valve. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Compression test fast and easy to do. And with black plugs I would look at what engine temp sensor is doing. | ||
| Tq_freak |
thanks Jim. I was thinking about that little guy too. I broke out the actual laptop last night (and will again) was getting frustrated with the time delay over bluetooth. I'll try and watch that temp sensor and see what it does and make sure it isn't flat lined does that cross reference to anything else Ford or Chevy? | ||
| Tq_freak |
Dwilson - no I done have one but I may be able to borrow one of a buddy | ||
| Dwilson357 |
Tq the timing light would be used if you wanted to verify cps failure...just a quick and dirty way of checking dpark strength/rough timing of each cylinder...I geuss you can get super accurate with the timing light but the cps voids the neccesity of thatm Google buell xb cross reference thread There is a thread on buellxb.com Jim, why would the engine temp sensor be suspect? I think im missing something lol. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Yeah I don't see how a temp sensor could make it pop back through the intake. A bad temp sensor would make the bike run too rich or make it think it's overheating. | ||
| Andersonhdj |
What do the fresh plugs look like at this time, if they're black then chances are the CHT could be defective , if not i'd be leaning towards the CPS. Check Reeps post's on testing same. | ||
| Readyxb |
>> At this time I built a Bluetooth module and was able to watch my O2 and that was dead. >> How did you diagnose the bad O2 sensor? Just curious in what manner it failed (little/no cross counts, 0 volts, etc?). Are you able to record/datalog a session with it acting up? I'd be glad to take a look at the log (one that's viewable in MLV or Tunerpro). Timing doesn't have to be off for it to cough out the intake, for sure, but I wouldn't rule that out. A good data log would really help. | ||
| Dwilson357 |
Could it be a leaky/bad injector | ||
| Readyxb |
It could be a lot of things - even bad gas or leaking intake port seals! | ||
| Tq_freak |
Update. -- Still runs like poo been messing with it some more this weekend. and thought I had it. first I swapped plugs and wires front to rear, no change. was thinking maybe an injector was screwed up pulled the injectors out to see if there was dirt or something behind them. all was clean then I put them back in the injector manifold and pointed them into a bucket to see if the pattern was crap. pattern looked good but I found something. water. with about a table spoon of gas in the bucket there was a fair amount of water in it. figured great there is it. Drained the gas and spilled a bunch all over the garage floor. put fresh in it and ran like real crap at first. figured I need to run it a little but to get it all out of the filter and what not. so I put it back together enough to run around the block a few times. Ran the worst it ever has at first but after a few laps its getting way better. but it still idles On one lung. bring it up to 2k and its back on two. I am thinking now that its got to be ignition. was looking back at the cam position sensor and noticed that the potting material around the wires, the green stuff, its all sticky like its not cured. is that normal? Readyxb, thank you for the offer. as soon as I can I will send you a file. It maybe a few days till I can mess with it some more, the mrs frowns upon me running it in the garage when the kids are in bed. | ||
| Dwilson357 |
the tackiness on the cps is fairly common from what I gather. The fact your saying its green is odd on your bike it should be black. Is the sensor square or a large blocky shape. | ||
| Tq_freak |
more rectangular then square. its black on the front face. the Green junk is on the "end" were the wires go into it. | ||
| Dwilson357 |
Ok you got the right one...my buddies had an older one in his 06...no idea what they did to get it to work but we ended up replacing it. Did you get a test light on the front cylinder when the bike is idling? This would verify you are missing spark. From there I would check the coil packs | ||
| Readyxb |
>> water. with about a table spoon of gas in the bucket there was a fair amount of water in it. >> >> I am thinking now that its got to be ignition... >> See my second post! Bad gas was one of my main suspects. I wouldn't dismiss the water just yet. If the water is in your frame/tank, it can be *extremely* difficult to get it all out. Even when you drain fuel until no more water appears, it can still be hiding in corners and will find the tank's bottom as you drive around, take corners, etc. I wouldn't waste any more time on symptoms until you are absolutely sure all the water is gone. It's not always an easy thing to do! | ||
| D_adams |
That right there is the most likely problem. Yes, the coil is one piece, but there are 3 wires on the input side. Power in the center, the outside pair go back to the ecm to get grounded. I don't have a service manual handy, but I _think_ the coil is separated internally and that they fire independently of each other. Swapping the wires and spark plugs won't do a lot for you if they're both good. I would look VERY hard at the cam position sensor, especially if it gets worse as it heats up. Yes, it may be getting a signal to fire, but odds are it's an erratic one that's causing you problems. The 03's had the cheaper cam sensor, the later model ones are $130+ I think for a new one. I don't have the part number for it handy. | ||
| Tq_freak |
Update: Sorry its taken so long but with other project and ordering stuff it takes time. well.. no luck yet Got a second hand Cam sensor and Coil to trouble shoot, figured if it was one or the other then I would go for a shiny new one. Was neither, no change out of either. swapped the cam sensor over as well as the coil. still misses only on the front cylinder Also noticed, maybe Im paying more attention or it appeared but it will run on both when cold. once warm the front drops out. Anyway, really think its got to come apart now. Either valves or rings. I hunted around from friends / coworkers for a compression gauge to borrow with no luck. Ordered one, and when that comes in and more then likely prove it all needs to come apart. Not a big deal really, I'm not afraid to take the motor apart. I am more scared of myself and the snowball that can very easily occur. the "well while its all apart I might as well" factor. | ||
| Firemanjim |
So you have ECM Spy? Does it just run like poo once it goes into closed loop? |
