| Author | Message | ||
     Ktmguy |
07 Uly.. I think this subject has been covered many times, but I cant find exactly the scenario im looking for to diagnose my problem. So, what exactly does "pinging" sound like on these bikes? I ask, because I have read on advrider an issue similar to mine being diagnosed as Pinging and corrected by adjusting the timing. My situation again, is this. In the 2500-3200 rpm rang under light throttle, I here a tapping in the top end. SOmetimes more noticeable, sometimes less noticeable, sometimes very noticeable. Sometimes it sounds like a lifter tap, sometimes it sounds like a higher pitched Ping.. Sometimes a combination of the two. On up the rpm range, it disappears. If I simply accelerate through the RPM range, its never there (or maybe I don't hear it with the drummer :-). Im having a hard time believing its a lifter / valve train issuue in just that narrow RPM range, and the symptoms of "pinging" fit, but I don't know what "pinging " sounds like? Its more noticeable from like 15% throttle to 30% throttle More it seems not as noticeable, which contradicts my thoughts on pinging? THoughts Appreciated! | ||
| Blackm2 |
What gear would you be in when you hear it and applying the 15-30% throttle? These engines like to be in the 3200-4000 range. If you're bogging around in a higher gear at 15-30 throttle, it will definitely knock and ping. | ||
| Ktmguy |
Doesn't matter the gear.. It seems really tied to throttle position. | ||
| Sifo |
My '06 Ss had that same ping. I would first check the static timing, many have found theirs set poorly from the factory. I wound up taking a few degrees of timing out of the offending area of the timing map to cure mine. It's a bit of trial an error. Mine was noticeably worse with hot weather too. | ||
| Teeps |
My '06 Ulysses has a lot of fin ringing that can be heard at most speeds, even with ear plugs. Just the nature of an air cooled engine. That noise is in part the reason for water cooling, as it contains that noise. Mine also has a rather loud tapping sound (lifter?) during warmup. After engine is at operating temperature. That noise is gone. If your Uly has pinging you should be able to duplicate the noise in 3rd gear on an up hill pull. Slow to about 35 mph, then grab a hand full of throttle. The noise will sound similar to a hand full of Nickels shaken in a metal coffee can. I tried backing off the static timing on mine. That fixed the pinging; but the bike ran like crap. And, "seemed" to run hotter. So I put it back to "standard" setting, and interestingly enough, the pinging stopped. I think much of the pinging is due to fuel octane rating, or lack there of... | ||
| Ktmguy |
See, that it.. I CAN grab a handful of throttle and the sound actually lessons or goes away.. Its ONLY in 15%-30% throttle input, and ONLY at those Rpms.. The fact it is only at those RPMS and under throttle input, suggest pinging and looking at timing.. However, contradicting that is that it IS only at light throttle inputs . im thinking more throttle, more ping, this is not the case.Am I missing something here? I think I will retard the timing in the next couple of weeks and see if that changes it. It manifested after an Oil change, or so I thought.. Thinking back, I had a new Map uploaded to the ECM also about 3 days prior to the oil change.. It runs like a top, Pulls great in all gears. | ||
| Ktmguy |
Did an oil change today, just on a chance. nothing changed. So I suppose next weekend, I will fiddle with the timing, but I don't expect that to change anything either.. the way I see it, I am dealing with one of two scenarios.. a partially collapsed lifter. but in that scenario, why does it go away above 3,200 rpm or so? Why is not prevalent below 2500 rpm? the second scenario, pinging..But why does it not do it under hard throttle applications, instead of light throttle applications? it does get worse when hot, indicating pinging..but I just do not know. I will play with the timing next weekend. I hate the thought of a collapsd lifter.or more, that's huge dollars, I understand and I could probably source an engine cheaper. | ||
| Greg_e |
A collapsed lifter is about $150 for a set of good lifters and a few gaskets. Pretty sure once the rocker boxes are off, you can pull the cams and get the lifters out without pulling the heads. | ||
| Ktmguy |
I wasn't sure if you could get the lifters out of the XB without pulling the heads? At either rate I have a manual here, But it may be over my head, thus paying a shop or individual to do it, assuming 10 hours of work at 70-80 bucks an hour im looking at I assume $700-$1000 in labor alone.. BUT. Im still going to retard the timing first. I just wont be able to get to that until next weekend. the dang thing just runs Perfect though.. ugh! | ||
| Sifo |
You are right that a collapsed lifter wouldn't act that way. As I said, I had the same problem on my '06. I'm running the race map, but had this on the stock map too. For reference, here's the '06 race maps vs. my modified '06 race maps... Original front timing table.  Modified front timing table.  Original rear timing table.  Modified rear timing table.  That should give you an idea of where to start. I still get a bit of ping if I run at low (2,300 - 2,400 rpm) at partial throttle in hot weather, but I've kind of just learned to "drive around" that. I usually keep the rpms higher than that, and if I'm caught lugging it that low as I accelerate, I've found I can just crack it open a bit more and the ping goes away. I might tune it more someday, but it's pretty good as it sits. I'm running a custom tune on a race map with a Jardine and K&N filter, so things might be slightly different for your set up, but you should get the idea. | ||
| Brumbear |
Sounds like you got fuel ping first thing put in octane booster or as high a fuel as you can get. Ride and listen for the ping usually will not appear till it warms up anyway but if it is happening during acceleration you are probably looking at fuel pinging. A right side air scoop may help to quite some of it. | ||
| Ktmguy |
Sifo.. I think it finally sank in after rereading your original post. I was having a hard time explaining, tha it wasn't like a normal ping meaning more throttle actually makes it lessen, or go away. I checked it this weekend, and in 5t gear at 2200 rpms or so, I can grab a handful of throttle and it emits no noticable ping or rattle. howver light throttle inputs in the ranges I have talked about produce the rattle / ping/tap... Your scenario that you dealt with seems like it fits mine to a T.. Now, I need to learn to use ECM spy, which I have, but cant seem to get to work. or would simply pulling the timing cover and retarding the whole system work? I also have a Drummer Exhaust, bypass, Drummers Map of his personal bike (which is supposedly the same as an EBR). Thanks again everyone.. I think I now have the source identified, I just need to fix it now! | ||
| Sifo |
You could just retard all your timing by retiming it under the timing cover, but the problem is only in a few cells of the map. You will lose power and efficiency by retarding the entire map. ECMSpy isn't too hard to learn. It's the first EFI tuning tool I've ever used. What you need to do is pretty straight forward. ECMSpy can be finicky sometimes though. I've had the best luck hooking up the cable, ignition on, kill switch in the run position, then I start ECMSpy. That's proven to be a reliable procedure for me. It's been a few years since I had to set it up, but detecting the correct Comm port was initially an issue on my computer. I think you need to click on the keys icon on the tool bar to get communication started. It's been a few years since I've done more than a TPS reset, so my recollections may be a slight bit foggy. |
