| Author | Message | ||
     Syonyk |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qetWxMAHVqU Watch what the EBR does in the corners. Again, nobody is arguing that they're more powerful than an IL4. They're not, and even the 1190RS is clearly down on power compared to the Japanese bike. But, obviously, power isn't everything, and that EBR corners like it's glued to the track. //EDIT: Also, notice that professional AMA commentators are stunned by what the 1190RS does under braking & in the corners. They live and breathe motorcycle racing, and sound damned impressed by what it can do. (Message edited by syonyk on September 29, 2012) | ||
| Glitch |
I take an XB9RS to my limits every time I throw a leg over. Me, New12r, and Smokescreen ridin' around the neighborhood. I don't see how having a race replica would be any better than this. | ||
| Greg_e |
Was that an uphill road? trying to figure out why it had two lanes on one side and only one on the other, normally this provides a slow traffic lane going up a hill. Looks like a nice road. Also if you guys want him to go away, stop replying and he'll soon lose interest. Forgot to say... Chicks that race are COOL! (Message edited by Greg_E on September 29, 2012) | ||
| Xxxue |
OK I Stand corrected,your correct victory was GSXR 1st, Buell 2nd, gsxr 3rd. (Message edited by xxxue on September 30, 2012) | ||
| Doubled |
http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/events/results.cfm? year=2012&eid=2012011255&discipline=RR&class=SB&ty pe=F&rnum=1&class_sort=all Can't believe I got sucked into this, but an untruth needs to be addressed here. It looks to me like the results show a 2 and 4 finish for the EBR machines "according the the AMA results of that race in that particular". Get your facts straight. | ||
| Sifo |
Nothing is more convincing than blatantly false lies.  | ||
| Sifo |
The funny thing here is that I can understand that an XB is not the best choice for all riders. The part that has me wondering; How did Xxxue wind up selecting a bike that was so poorly matched to what he wanted from a bike in the first place? To me it doesn't say much about his ability to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of a bike. | ||
| Syonyk |
You didn't even watch the video I linked, did you? It's rather clear that the EBRs came in 2nd & 4th. | ||
| Glitch |
Yes that is uphill It's HWY129 headed up Blood Mountain This is Wolfpen Gap HWY180 just off HWY129 after Blood Mountain. Don't sweat the troll, if she gets too far out of hand, she'll get suspended until she can play nicer. Until\if that happens, just stick with the facts of the matter, and remain as polite as y'all are being, and either she'll get tired of trolling, or she'll get gone. Either way, we all win. | ||
| Greg_e |
I didn't see any speed limit signs, is that all 55mph? Looks like a lot of second and third gear use on those corners unless they are faster than it looks. | ||
| Xxxue |
Sifo I purchased the XB12R because I really liked the idea of sportbike with a harley sportster engine in it. I have a lot of flat track racers set up for the street and Buell seemed to have the best combination for weight and power at the time. Also most Buell dealers when harley still sold them would not let you ride them, before you buy it. I also own a highly modded XL-1200 that is dynoed at 82hp and 77ft torque at the rear wheel, even with the extra weight of the sportster it was more fun to ride than the Buell XB12R I purchased my xb12r and I didn't get a chance to ride, before I brought it home, only parking lot test. Once I got it on the open roads I was really disappointed with it, for it lack of power. Don't get me wrong V twin buells aren't the only ones v twin sportbikes that suffer from this,sv650, SV1000 both have the same problem, almost no torque, just slow smooth power delivery. You basically have to wind to piss out of them really give them any power. The real problem isn't really the bikes, its the bench marks, by which they are judged currently, if the xb came out 25yrs ago 90-100 hp would be competitive. Today the bench mark is a 150-180 rwhp to really be competitive. So once you sample the power, ride and experience of a true superbike, its hard to go backward and in the end results its a waste of time and money. Old technology and classic bikes,cars are best left for your memory and not your wallet. You really shouldn't limit your choices out they though with the current cheap market on used sportbikes. I'll leave you fellow members to enjoy your Buells , just keep an opened mind. | ||
| Afsoc_commando |
Well my xr250 is just as fast on the street as any street Bike doing the speed limit. I don't need a Hyabusa to prove my manhood. My Uly is the most fun I have ever had on 2 wheels that wasn't limited to any one style of riding. My VFR750RR didn't handle as sweet as the ULY. The vfr could eat the Uly in acceleration but there comes a point where top speed means nothing. The 1190 is a street legal race ready machine unlike any other bike sold. If I wanted to race that would be the bike I bought. I no longer ride sewing machines on the street. If it doesn't have a soul then I won't ride it. | ||
| Glitch |
Don't get me wrong V twin buells aren't the only ones v twin sportbikes that suffer from this,sv650, SV1000 both have the same problem, almost no torque, just slow smooth power delivery. The 03 XB9R or S has a higher torque to weight ratio than a Hayabusa, or and other bike made that year. And thank you for becoming more civil, it's more becoming. | ||
| Glitch |
Wolfpen's speed limit I guess is 45, the whole route is 3rd or 4th gear. Blood Mountain is a lot faster, the speed limit there is 55. This is Wolfpen:  This is the whole loop:  If you come to Buelltoberfest, I can show you in person. | ||
| Syonyk |
Today the bench mark is a 150-180 rwhp to really be competitive. Where on earth are you riding (on the street) that you actually get a chance to tell the difference between 100 and 150hp for more than about 3 seconds before getting into "Instant jail trip and crushed motorcycle"? The XB9 is overpowered for the street. The 1125R is badly overpowered for the street. The Blast is about right, if I'm honest with myself, though the stock Blast is a bit lacking. Open up the intake & exhaust, and it turns into a sweet street ride. So once you sample the power, ride and experience of a true superbike, its hard to go backward and in the end results its a waste of time and money. Actually, I'm "going backwards" as are a lot of guys I know. Once you realize that you can't approach the limits of a superbike on the street OR on the track (unless you're an AMA Superbike racer or similar, which I am most definitely not), they get boring quickly. Or you're into "arrest me and throw me in the back of the police car" speeds before they're any fun. Doing 110 around a 45mph sweeper in a 55mph zone is not pushing a modern sportbike terribly hard. It is, however, pushing the limits of your license very hard. I'd rather flog a slightly underpowered bike around a twisty road hard than zip through on a something that goes and corners like a tron bike. Big engines are nice for touring, since you don't have to wind the motorcycle up very hard for highway speeds, but if you're doing a lot of superslab on a motorcycle, you're doing it quite wrong, IMO. My fiancee & I have three Buells in the garage - a Blast with some work done, an XB9, and an 1125R. They get ridden for commuting, for evening rides to dinner, and when we get a chance, for longer touring. With the exception of touring, they get selected in "lowest power first" order. She takes the Blast and I take the XB9 to work, unless she's taking a car for whatever reason, at which point I take the XB9. I'll take the 1125 out for evening rides or touring, mostly because it has the soft luggage mounted. For most of the stuff we do, it's still badly overkill. It's rare to be out on a road where I actually can open the 1125 up - I can count the times I've been to WOT on it in the last 6 months on one hand, if I don't count TPS calibrations. And as a result, I'm seriously considering getting another Blast, putting stiffer springs in it, and cafe-racering it up. Strip the crap off, drop the bars, push the pegs back, and have a little modern cafe racer to flog around. Is it slow? Yeah. It will be. And unless I do engine work to raise the rev limit, it cannot and will not hit 100mph. And I fully expect the "grins per mile" to be way, way higher than the 1125 gets in most of the riding we do. | ||
| Syonyk |
The real problem isn't really the bikes, its the bench marks, by which they are judged currently, if the xb came out 25yrs ago 90-100 hp would be competitive. And what's different about riders and roads today than 25 years ago? Not a whole lot. I think the major disconnect is that you're rating sportsbikes by power and acceleration in an unlimited acceleration/speed contest. The rest of us are looking at the whole package and the actual riding we do. I don't argue for even a fraction of a second that the BMW S1000RR is not a better motorcycle for the track than my XB9. It's faster, it has twice the power (near as makes no difference), it has a ton of electronic aids, and is on paper, in every way, a better motorcycle. Except, I don't do trackdays very often. And, if I'm honest about my riding abilities, I'd be going about the same speed in the novice group on an S1000RR as I would on my XB9. Or my 1125R. I'm not a skilled trackday rider, and I don't pretend to be. And on the street, I don't ride anywhere that the extra power/grip/whatever would make any difference at all. I'd be going the exact same speed, but I wouldn't be pushing the bike nearly as hard. Pushing motorcycles is fun. Riding them slowly compared to what they want to do is not so fun. It's been said before, and it'll be said again. It's a lot more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow. And on the street, you're riding every single modern sportbike slow. | ||
| Sifo |
Xxxue, I really think you got a bad XB if your are telling the truth. My XB dynoed at 92 hp and 77 foot pounds of torque. Given that it's lighter than your XL1200, it would kick it's ass in acceleration. Given the fact that the XB chassis gives better handling, well, I just don't see where the XL is going to be more fun. I've also ridden a SB650. It was very uninspiring compared to my XB. I do have an open mind to other bikes. In fact I own a Triumph ST 1050. As liter bikes go it's a tad on the slow side, but it will really outrun my XB in triple digit speeds. Still, when I don't need the luggage, the XB is the bike I choose for fun. If you want to keep your license (and your life) you just won't be going that fast on the street. I took the XB on an incursion into southern Cheddarstan today. The XB did everything I could have asked of it, including a short hop on the expressway. Honestly a Buell Blast would have done well too. I rode a bunch of roads I've never been on and had a great time. I never once felt hindered by a lack of power. The only thing I found lacking was my lack of a camera.  Great colors are starting to come out in Cheddarstan. It did all of this and delivered 53 mpg today. To be honest, I'm thrilled with what my XB delivers. I've even turned down my wife's suggestion that I trade my XB for a Speed Triple. I've demoed one and they are impressive bikes. I'm still happier with my XB. It really is an informed decision. You summed it up quite well when you pointed out that you really need to take an XB to the track to really see it's deficiencies. If I'm not riding on the track, it just isn't lacking. (Message edited by SIFO on September 30, 2012) | ||
| Sifo |
Oh,one other great thing about my XB... 50,000 miles and have never done a valve adjustment. Try that on your cow!  | ||
| Sifo |
Funny thing, but Xxxue said his bike isn't even broke in yet. He hasn't experienced the power band yet. Looking at his profile he is out in Nevada. At least he does have lot's of flat straight road in the middle of nowhere to use that speed. Most people don't live in such areas. Even so, hitting a rodent at 150+ could easily be fatal. When you are busted up laying in the desert, your survival chances drop dramatically. I had the chance to talk to an EMT in Ely, NV about that exact thing back in August this year. They die from a combination of exposure and shock while waiting for help to arrive. Hopefully he will think about this when he contemplates winding this thing out. To me nothing is better than a windy road that is fun in the 30 - 60 mph range. They are worth searching out, and the XB does great on them. | ||
| Xxxue |
Sifo - I'm originally from the east coast and its easy to find 1-2 mile straight runs, even in down hill mountain areas, and even in some flat farm land areas on the east coast. Most of todays sport bikes can easily do 160-170 mph in only a 1/2 mile section. Note your Triumph ST1050 is not a sport bike and weighs over 500lbs wet weight, its a Sport Touring and only makes about a 123hp measured at the crank. This would give you about a 104.5 hp at the back wheel, similar to an old Kawasaki Concours. Your still about 60-80 hp down from current liter sport bikes. My GSXR1000 dynoed at 164 rwhp. The dyno specs I listed are for my 1200 sportster with 82hp and 77ft/lbs. torque. I'm sure my xb12r would have dynoed more than the 1200 sportster. Even with the low miles on my XB12R I seen it do a little over 125 mph. (Message edited by xxxue on October 01, 2012) | ||
| Bads1 |
Thing is Xxxue they and I mean magazines have never compared the XB12 to any bikes other then the naked class and the Ducati's of the aircooled class. Its you who is comparing.... its apple to oranges. Me..... im very opened minded. I've owned sportbikes of all classes. Quite frankly you put the Buell on a tight track and setup correctly it will be at every corner a liter bike will be. As far as the Homestead race ??? Great race.... but the race was a tire war race in sorts. Youngs tires were going and he was doing his best. The Twins benefit in that they manage tires much better. The race started in the Wet.. was dry towards the end. most selected a bad tire combo.....even May started to fade. But thats racing. | ||
| Xxxue |
Read this cycle world link, race results seem to differ from site to site. http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/09/24/ama-prosbk-ho mestead-miami-weedkend-results/ I'm comparing the XB to other 1000cc sport bikes riding on the street. Using your analogy is the same as comparing the 600 class to the 1000cc class on a tight track, the lap times will only be a few seconds off. Now put them both on a road course or a track that allows the 1000cc sport bike to use its power advantage and the difference is very clear. If all sportbike riders wanted was a great handling bike that didn't exceed to legal speed limits , then we would all be buying cbr250's and ninja 250's . Current market trends for most sport bike buyers are the 1000cc plus class and zx14r and Hayabusa's Also most buyers are 30 yrs plus, 600cc sales are drastically down and the only buyers left are older and do not want to speed $10k for a 600cc bike when you can buy a 1000cc bike for around $12k. | ||
| Bads1 |
Try reading Roadracingworld.com. Yes you are comparing street. Can you ride a 1000 faster??? I'll bet you can't?? And now you jump to comparing 600's to the 1000's on a track.... which yes you are still comparing. Can you circle a track on a 1000 faster then a 600??? Bet ya can't?? Most people can't unless they have quite a bit of experience. On to the next thing you say what owners want?? That doesn't mean they are correct for buying it. Ever heard the saying your eyes are bigger then your stomach??? Come on your Mom and Dad have said it once or twice at the dinner table. Being that you have a ZX14 they didn't teach you much. | ||
| Xxxue |
Bads1 - Go for a simple ride with a bunch of guys on a mix of 1000's , 600's and your xb12. In order for you to keep up with the 600's and 1000's from simple stop ligt to stop light and average spirited riding, you have to ride the xb12r to its max, just to keep up with the 600's. The guys riding the 1000's aren't even trying to take off fast, most of the 1000cc bikes are quicker from 1200 rpm - 7500 rpm , than the buell is maxxed out. Some of the l000cc bikes can actually do almost a 100 mph in first gear. Until you own and ride a new liter sportbike for a while you don't know what its like. I used to think that my fz600 was as fast as you would ever need,then I went to a gsxr750, gsxr1000 and with each move up you find the prior generation of bikes under powered and slow. I will agree that there is a limit on useable horse power, but the new standard is a 180-200 hp with the new traction controls on bikes and factory racers (Message edited by xxxue on October 01, 2012) | ||
| Bads1 |
Xxxue, Sorry to say but I sold my 12 two years ago.I come here as of 12 years and know many on this site and met many from other countries through this brand. You on the other hand have zero intentions of contributing to this site in any form.But when I did have the 12 I had zero hard time keeping up with anyone.... unless they had long straights.As far liter bike. I own one... CBR is it brand new no a couple years old. Also have a CBR 600RR in the garage. I've owned a GSXR 750.... A FZR 1000. Where are you goin with this??? Liter bikes in the last couple years haven't came to far other then electronics and they are useless to the average rider. Where do you get 180-200 hp. Only a couple and it crank power. | ||
| Xxxue |
BMW 1000 easily puts out about 184 rwhp with slip ons and the zx10r is about 167rwhp stock and with a ecm update it can easily get into the 180's Factory superbikes are making over 200 rwhp Watch this brocks performance video dyno run, and this is rear wheel horse power not at the crank, the way most manufacturers state their HP claims. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7_4lUwrOCk | ||
| Sifo |
Xxxue... The Pace | ||
| Bads1 |
184 hey with a slipon??? Good luxk with that.lol im out of this one.We're dealing with a idiot. | ||
| Syonyk |
Actually, he's right. http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2009/12/16december0 9bmws1000rdyno/ | ||
| Swamp2 |
Ok, this is getting old. So what if an S1000RR can get 184 HP? Why does anybody care unless they've got a big f'ng ego problem and are an irresponsible jerk off who doesn't care if they kill the sport for the rest of us who give a crap about how the rest of society perceives motorcyclists? WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO YOU? SO YOU CAN USE IT FOR A MILE A DAY? WHO CARES? WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH RESPONSIBLE REAL WORLD RIDING???? Please go to the track and go away. Can we quit feeding the troll? |
