| Author | Message | ||
     Fireboltxb9r |
My drive belt just snapped at 11,400 miles. I don't hammer on this bike and had just down shifted into second to pass a vehicle when it let loose. Not abusive riding in the least. I know the recommended change is at 15,000 miles, but am disappointed I was left stranded and surprised at the cost. My local dealers don't carry it in stock. Have any of you other riders had belt breakage on the 03's? I know they made a change (slightly wider belt) on the newer models. Buell also superseded the original part number from G0500.02A8F to G0500.02A8R. My dealer couldn't tell me the difference. Does any one offer an aftermarket better performance belt? I contacted Buell to see if they might help with repair cost under warranty. They told me to have dealer submit the facts for consideration. I think I might just do it myself as the service manual makes it look pretty straight forward and my local dealer quoted me $150.00 just for labor, which I feel is ridiculous. Any thoughts from you fellow Bueller's on this? I appreciate your suggestions. Thank you. | ||
| Darthane |
Plenty of people have broken '03 belts, though I think you'll find in many cases there was some form of mistreatment involved. I've got 15K on mine and no problems. Replacing the belt is, indeed, very simple. As long as you're even slightly mechanically inclined you'll get through it fine. It takes 30-90 minutes depending on your skill level and how many times you've done it. | ||
| Starter |
The new 2004 belt is not slightly wider, it has a different pitch. Your is an 11mm pitch belt and has 155 teeth. Measure it and is should be 1.125 inches wide (28mm). You can even count the teeth if you like but that comes straight from hte service manual. (BTW 2004 bike owners you ServiceManual has a mistake in this area as it still quotes 155 teeth and you only have 128!!). Anyway there are a couple of alternatives such as the Dayco Panther and Gates Polychain HTD (even though yours was probably originally a Gates). I haven't managed to source a spare but most people are telling me Dayco are the industry leaders. Check out these guys as they may be able to get what you want. http://www.chopperscycle.com | ||
| Steve_a |
The original 2003 XB9 belt has been replaced by a later part number, an improved belt still made by Gates. It's the best belt Gates can make, and a substantial improvement on the original 2003 part. The 2004 belts, as fitted to 2004 and 2005 9 & 12 production bikes, are different animals, with the 14mm pitch as indicated above. These are very special Goodyear belts, made specially for Buell, and unlike anything you might find in an industrial supply house, as suggested on a different thread. The Goodyear belt resulted from an intense development effort, and Buell has been very pleased with it, both for its life and strength, and because of its greater resistance to damage through mishandling. The suggested 25,000 mile change interval for it may well go up substantially for the 2006 model year -- the problem, according to Erik, is to accumulate enough miles on enough samples to justify the extension. If I were having problems with keeping Gates belts alive on a 2003 9, I'd look first at the improved Gates belt. If that didn't solve the problem, I'd convert to the Goodyear belt (requiring new sprockets) before attempting a chain conversion. | ||
| Tbs_stunta |
I'm starting to wonder if its the lack of a cush drive that's causing these belts to fail. | ||
| Chainsaw |
I've got 13,800 on my original belt, and I have a replacement on hand that I'll mount at 15,000. I got the replacement belt from Modesto Buell/Ducati for $110 shipped to my door. I ordered the A8R belt and got the A8F belt, last one in stock. I hope it'll last 15k! | ||
| 984_cc |
I don't know about the Dayco belts. When replacing automotive belts, I've always been pleased and have noticed the high-quality in the Gates belts. When I've used and seen the Dayco belts, their quality looked inferior to the Gates belts. But I don't know about Dayco's other stuff, like their belt they have for our bikes. I would probably stick with Gates. | ||
| Blake |
Larry, The XB Buells do have anti-shock driveline protection; it's just integrated into the clutch assembly instead of the rear wheel hub. | ||
| Whodom |
Larry- Belts are evidently superior to chains in handling shock loads. I read an article a few years ago on the legendary mechanic/car builder "Smokey" Yunick. He had a test engine in his shop which consisted of a small block Chevy with a 350 HP electric motor connected to the crank. That way, he could spin the engine for days (if necessary) to test a component without actually running the engine. Relevant test- some years ago, NASCAR Winston Cup cars had a rash of broken timing chains. They couldn't understand why, since the calculations showed the chains to be much stronger than necessary. They set one up on Smokey's test engine, installed a clear plastic timing chain cover, and spun it up to ~7000 RPM. When viewed with a strobe light, they could see that the chain was thrashing back and forth, caused by the lifters climbing the ultra-steep lobes on the radical cams these engines ran. Impact loads on the chains were going MUCH higher than predicted causing them to snap. Solution- change to toothed belt. Belt damped out the thrashing and held up much better, even though it had a lower ultimate strength than the chain. | ||
| Bomber |
gotta love Smokey, doncha? Best Damn Garage in Town! | ||
| Tbs_stunta |
Belts may or may not be superior on motorcycles, but there's something causing the Buell belts to snap. Too many people have had it happen for it to be a fluke, even on the new and improved belts. | ||
| Boulderbiker |
Besides Dean who apparently rides dirt and gravel more than some dirt bikers, name the "too many" on the new and improved belts. I've heard of 1 other. Now do you really think that nobody breaks chains? Sure they do, they just dont think much of it cause its what everybody does. Belts on the other hand stand out, so if one fails, guess what, it gets all kinds of attention. Besides that, I don't know how much you've read, but belts are sensitive to handling in installation, chains, are not by comparison. This alone can easily account for the vast majority of belt breakages experienced. Does this all mean I'm in love with belts? No, I can see pros and cons, and honestly I may go chain at some point, just cause they're easier to come by and less sensitive to gravel which there's tons of where I live. But I wont pretend like belts are by nature inferior. | ||
| Danny |
With absolutely no data to back up my claim... I blame HD Chrome hangers that don't know not to twist the belt when changing a rear tire. I think one individual mentioned that both their belts went shortly after a new rear tire was installed. We've only seen two broken XB belts in 2+ years, one was early and right after we changed a tire but hadn't received the bulletin yet. The other was a little after a guy carried in his rim to have us replace the tire. Bottom line: I think there is another cause of broken belts other than weak design, I just need to examine enough of the circumstances to figure it out. Danny | ||
| 984_cc |
I wonder if alot of the broken belts were on bikes that had to get the bearing recall work at the dealers. Maybe they manhandled the belts? I'm not saying all dealers do bad work though. | ||
| Blake |
"Too many people have had it happen for it to be a fluke, even on the new and improved belts." I defy you to back that up with data. | ||
| Fst_tyms |
I went through 3 belts. there is a break in period for the belt. Take it easy on it for the first 250 miles or so. At least a few heat cycles. The dealers never carry the stuff you need. Belts are just weak, I say get the chain conversion kit. | ||
| Opto |
I have no data to back this up but I reckon belts break from dropping the clutch to pull wheelies. After a few hundred shock treatments they give up the ghost. Another way of giving it a shock load is by fast gear changes at high revs when you just drop the clutch as soon as the next gear is engaged and the bike lurches forward under the inertia of the crank etc. Sorry just had to throw this in. | ||
| Torqer |
Umm... I have about 12,000 miles and 10,000 wheelies on mine and have had no issues! Freddy Spencer's crew told me I was shifting too hard and the belt still received a clean bill of health at my 10k service. I was honest and asked for a complete inspection of the belt. TBS_Stunta: As a Reverend of the Church of the Sub-Genious, have faith... Bob will be watching over your slackin' self!  C'mon man you've been puttin' this off for long enough... Getcha one! (Message edited by torqer on August 07, 2004) | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
I reckon belts break from dropping the clutch to pull wheelies. After a few hundred shock treatments they give up the ghost No way. On my 650 lb HD I have done hundreds of holeshots, burnouts, even a couple of accidental wheelies...very very scary...& the stock belt is still holding up fine after more than 60,000 miles. | ||
| Blake |
I have over 20,000 miles on a seven year old original belt; over 1,000 of those miles are accumulated on the track including a number of drag races and practiced starts and a LOT of power shifting. Belts are extremely strong, and I am unaware of any special break-in required to maintain their integrity. They will wear-in. There is nothing in a belt that requires break-in that I know of. The 2003 XB9 belts obviously have a design problem and do not perform as intended in some cases, most likely due to oversensitivity to mishandling. | ||
| Easyflier |
This may or may not apply but I was reading an article the other day on blower belts on high performance race cars. What they (the belt manufacturer) said was that it was getting off the gas that put the most stress on the belt. I equate that to a downshift on an XB, something that I do a lot of. I'm no wheelie king and don't dump the clutch to get the nose up, I do however speed shift which engages the belt pretty hard I imagine even with the compensated clutch assembly. The last belt I brike was not the upgraded Gates. I suspect that mine gave out at 7,000 miles due mishandling during the last tire change and the fact that it was the older version of the belt. All that coupled with my propensity to use engine braking quite a bit. In the future I think I will simply adopt a policy of new belt with new rear tire and I don't think I'll have any more unpleasant surprises when on the road. In the long run I think it will be less costly (2 shop hours for replacement) not to mention the pleasure of uninterrupted rides due to belt failure. | ||
| Opto |
Thanks Torquer, Dyna and Blake for your input. I just don't know why people are breaking belts, I got 40k miles out of my 1st belt on a 96 Sportster, I used to see the guys with big twins park the front wheel up against a wall and see how many gears they could get through doing the burnout. They never broke belts. I've never shied away from a dirt road in 8 years of belt ownership. I saw a guy once on a run with a sideways rip halfway through his belt, been like that for a few thousand km's he says. Got me beat. | ||
| Chainsaw |
Update: 14,600 on my stock XB belt. The belt has only been touched by me, and the service tech who replaced the bearings...and I handed him the belt handling bulletin. I only wheelie by accident, but I downshift like crazy and accelerate like a madman. Regardless, I'll replace it at 15k per manual specs. My 01 Sportster has over 33,000 miles on the stock belt. It has seen it's fair share of dirt and gravel in my travels in 30 states, Canada, and Mexico (although most of the dirt and gravel roads have been in Wyoming) I can not find ANY spec in the Service Manual for a scheduled replacement of the Sporty belt. All this talk about breaking belts almost had me convinced to convert to a chain. I'm thinking ya'll have just had ill handled belts...or maybe your ex-girlfriends have Voodoo Buells they're poking with sharp stuff!  | ||
| Torqer |
 maybe your ex-girlfriends have Voodoo Buells they're poking with sharp stuff! | ||
| Starter |
The belt on the 2004 Buells are Goodyear Blackhawk PD. End of story, I've had the Goodyear Rep look at it and he confirmed it. The only thing that differs for Buell is that they are made in a 128 tooth pitch and cut to 28mm width instead of industry standard lengths and width. To get width all you need to do is cut a wider belt as they are manufactured with a continuous wound fibre in a wide "tube" and cut to width. The Goodyear BlackHawk PD and the Eagle PD are the strongest, toughest, hairiest, ugliest, most expensive belt Goodyear sells. Goodyear does not make a belt stronger per unit width. They differ only by tooth number, not composition. Steve_a, Buell can sprout all the designed and developed for them speeches in the world but they are only made in a different length under a supply agreement. All I'm saying is that there are alternatives, Goodyear doesn't have anything stronger, but others such as Dayco and Gates may. | ||
| Darthane |
Y'all are trying to fix something that ain't broke. 15K on my original '03 belt. I've got a new one in the garage, and I'm debating whether to even bother putting it on when I get the tires changed. | ||
| Tbs_stunta |
When I said even on the new ones it was cause I remember someone saying their's broke (and he knows about not bending them). I can't remember the threads the breaks were on so in the interest of fairness and eliminating here-say, who has had their belts break and which models/circumstances? | ||
| Glitch |
My fist belt broke (3000+miles) because Darthane didn't tell me how to be nice to the belt during tire changes. My second belt broke (at 6000+miles) for who knows why, it was the older belt part number. My third belt now has 14,000+ miles on it I'm gonna buy another soon so I have one on hand, just in case. It's the new belt part number. Upgrade to new belt system in the future. | ||
| Steve_a |
>>Steve_a, Buell can sprout all the designed and developed for them speeches in the world but they are only made in a different length under a supply agreement.<< Hmm. Erik Buell has told me directly that the Goodyear belts are a unique construction, and that they went through a large number of design iterations during their development, with strength increasing in the later versions. I believe him. It's like tires: tires made in a given mold look like one another, but that doesn't mean the carcass design, the reinforcing fibers, the rubber compounding, or their performance are the same. Tire companies do OEM versions of tires that have aftermarket brand identities all the time -- they look the same, but they're not. (I've seen sections through tires where large rubber fillers were added between carcass and belt to increase carcass damping and eliminate a motorcycle stability problem for an OEM.) Goodyear was hot to get their nose into the H-D/Buell tent, where Gates had been the sole belt supplier for years. Why would it be surprising that they would do a special belt to do that? (Message edited by steve_a on August 09, 2004) | ||
| Anonymous |
Starter, Your rep is wrong, absolutely wrong. And there is no way in the world he could tell what construction they were without a complete disassembly and technical analysis. And in fact, that is extremely difficult if not impossible to do with a cured rubber product. Just ask any tire engineer. For this Goodyear rep to claim that is pretty scary if you are counting on him for technical support in your business! I can guarantee you the engineers at Goodyear who worked on it for months and months with one design after another would think him a complete idiot!! |
