| Author | Message | ||
     Pmjolly |
I have a friend who is needing some help with a cooling fan that quit working on his 07 XB12S. I have an 1125R. I am very familiar with these. I know very little about the other Buells and their quirks. I can trouble shoot damn near anything. My questions are these. Will it hurt for him to ride it to my house with no working cooling fan? It will be less than 30 miles in mid 70 degree weather. He has few tools, and I have a pretty good shop. How are the fans controlled? I won't have a service manual. Are they controlled by the ECM, like my 1125? Are there any known quirks with these that cause fan failures? I think I heard mention of rocker cover leaks causing this. I have a Harley dealer close by. If I find leaks, I might try to fix them if I can get new gaskets. I might be back asking for torque specs. Thanks in advance for any advice. I'll be looking at it the weekend of Saturday, March 31st. | ||
| Glitch |
Will it hurt for him to ride it to my house with no working cooling fan? I doubt it seriously. My fan stopped working one summer on my 30 mile commute to work, and I rode it home. Summer in Atlanta, way over 85 degrees that day. How are the fans controlled? The ECM. Are there any known quirks with these that cause fan failures? A few have failed that I know of, but causes I know not. Mine died because it somehow sucked up a candy wrapper, and got caught up between the fan and it's grill. I think I heard mention of rocker cover leaks causing this. Interesting, since any oil leaking towards the fan would be blown away from the fan, by the fan. Best of luck! Oh and tell your friend to get a service manual, he'll thank you for it. | ||
| Froggy |
The fan blows from front to back, pulling hot air (and leaking oil) away from the motor. There have been a number of people on here who have had the rear rocker leak oil and it eventually killed the fan. (Message edited by Froggy on March 23, 2012) | ||
| Glitch |
My bad, you're right, I'm backwards sometimes, but I'm never ever far from being corrected. Ask my wife. | ||
| Greg_e |
ECMspy and a cable would be great, there is a fan test in the diagnostics page that might help you figure out if it is the fan or the controls (or wiring). | ||
| Mtnmason |
you can find a fan on fleabay for pretty cheap from a parted out xb. if you plug it in and it doesnt work you can re-sell it or keep it for the future and figure things out from there. that'd be my route since i'm not too adept at figuring out "brain" issues | ||
| Pmjolly |
Did Buell use the same fans across the different models and years? Is there just one fan, or two like my 1125? Thanks for all the help! | ||
| Froggy |
It is technically the same fan for all years and models of XB, the fan was revised a few times (probably just different suppliers), but all will work. There is only one fan, replacement isn't too hard, just jack the bike a bit from the muffler, disconnect rear shock, and have at it. Before doing anything, use ECMspy's fan diagnostic tool to verify its functionality or any trouble codes. It would suck to do all the work to replace the fan just to find out the head temperature sensor is malfunctioning. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
I'd go one step easier and check the fan control fuse before doing anything, including riding it. It may burn out again or it may hold out until the fan is cleaned up and rocker box gaskets replaced if they need it. MY rear rockerbox leak coated the fan lightly with oil but it was enough to burn up the fuse. I have also read about others having this problem. Check fuse, then scrutinize rear rocker box, then go from there. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/652468.html?1329175667 | ||
| Silveradotx |
Allow me to share, as it is my bike that is being discussed. Here's the rundown of all I know thus far. I have checked the fuse, and it's blown each time the motor's gotten hot enough to trigger the fan. I recently took my bike to the dealer and asked them to take a look at it while I was getting the inspection done. They said that the fan came on for a second and then shut off. Mentioned a popping/clicking sound (pretty sure that was the fuse blowing again). Anyway, they said to start with the fan relay, then check the wiring and then the fan itself. I know plenty of people who have dealt with this and have also seen temp. sensors be the culprit as well. However, I did pull the codes and got a high/low voltage on the fan circuit. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Getting the fan all kinds of oily can kill it. Because of the fan's orientation the oil will go into the windings and carry debris of any sort in with it. Wonder what the best way to check if the fan is shot? Perhaps if there's a cheap fan you could plug in to see if it will run without blowing the fuse again. | ||
| Silveradotx |
I'm pretty sure that's what happened. Hoping that we can get around this without having to go to the dealership or buy new parts. | ||
| Djohnk |
+ 2 on an oily fan as the problem When the fan failed on my ULY the root cause was it getting soaked in oil from leaky rocker box gaskets. I had the same symptoms as you, the fuse was blowing. Personally, I had a bitch of a time replacing that fan on my bike. You can do it, but you have to rotate and tilt it just right to wrestle it out. It's one of those things that is much easier the second time you do it. | ||
| Pmjolly |
OK, we see a way to get the fan out without too much fuss. We need to remove the shock, but we can not get the upper mounting bolt to move. I am afraid it is going to snap. I have sprayed penetrating oil on the bolt. Any suggestions? | ||
| Pmjolly |
We got it. I thought I broke the bolt when it finally came loose! | ||
| Greg_e |
In the future, heat the hell out of it to weaken the thread locking compound. | ||
| Pmjolly |
OK. The fan works on the bench just fine. It draws 7 to 8 amps off my battery charger, confirmed with a Fluke meter in series with the fan. We could find absolutely no wiring issues. Could this be an ECM problem? This is such a basic circuit. I connected the meter to the frame, and did the wiggle test on the wiring. The only reading we got to ground was through the ECM. It was in the meg ohm range, not a direct short. Hmmmmmmmmm | ||
| Greg_e |
Looking at the service manual for the 03 9r, it has a 5 amp fuse so it should never be allowed to pull more than about 4 amps (or the manual has a misprint). The circuit works by supplying the fan with + voltage from the system, and the ECM completes the circuit to ground through some sort of transistor based switch (probably a power MOSfet). I think it is also controlled with a PWM pulse so it never really gets turned fully on, this is how a simple DC motor can have multiple speeds. Either that or it has an SCR in the ECM allowing the ECM to control the voltage flowing through the circuit. I've never checked but I think it is PWM. Have you checked the trouble codes yet? If it is trying to draw more than the allowed power it should pop the fuse or at least the ECM might show a trouble code. | ||
| Pmjolly |
His is a 2007 XB12S. It does have a 10 amp fuse. I checked to make sure it was the correct size. It should be fine running 7 amps. The trouble code he gets is high voltage / low voltage trouble code 36. It basically means the circuit is open, so no voltage. That would be the case with a blown fuse. | ||
| Pmjolly |
He put everything back together and left. I have not heard yet if the fan worked. | ||
| Pmjolly |
Oh, and another Bueller in the area is going to let him swap his known good ECM into the Buell with the fan situation. This should rule out the ECM as a factor. | ||
| Greg_e |
Code 36 is shown in the service manual, I tried to extract the pages but it said they were too big to attach. You really need the serial cable and ECMspy to deal with this, then you could check and see if the ECM is really switching the black/orange wire to ground to turn the fan on, would be best to use an oscilloscope since I think it is PWM. Have you checked the wires to see if the other color has battery voltage and that the black/orange has continuity from the fan connector all the way to the ECM connector? | ||
| Silveradotx |
After we got everything buttoned up I rode across town, about 30-40 miles. When I turned the bike off the fan didn't come on, but there was no check engine light, no blown fuse, so no problem. Headed home, about another 30 miles. Stopped about halfway, no problems. Made it home and the fan came on for about a second or two then shut off. There was no check engine light, but I checked the fuse anyway and it didn't appear to be blown (poor lighting, so I may have been wrong). Pulled the bike out this morning, turned it on and the check engine light came on. Went ahead and rode it to school and pulled the fuse when I made it. It appears to be blown. (Message edited by SilveradoTX on April 02, 2012) | ||
| Greg_e |
In this case, I'm betting a bad fan motor. Probably one of those things were if you have enough current it will spin up and stay running, but the cycle doesn't provide that kind of current before the fuse pops. The good thing is that you now know it tries to work so the ECM and wiring are probably good so you need a fan. Anyone else agree with what I'm thinking? You might be able to plug a turn signal lamp or stop light lamp into the fan connector, ride it and see if the light comes on when you stop. This would once again let you know that they ECM and wiring are probably OK. | ||
| Froggy |
I'm with Greg on this. Sounds like the fan is failing. They did change the fuse sizes a few times over the years though, hence the inconsistency between the old bike and newer book. | ||
| Silveradotx |
I didn't think about that at first. Just because the fan is hooked to a 12V power supply and runs doesn't necessarily mean it will run on the bike. I'm hoping to meet with another local rider who has ECMSpy sometime this week. | ||
| Greg_e |
Yes, grab a handful of fuses and run the fan diagnostics. All it does is command the fan to on at the various levels. I would also suggest the lightbulb in the fan connector to start those tests to make sure the wires are OK. These bikes do sometime rub through the insulation in places so it could be a wire that only shorts once in a while, though it sounds like it is happening pretty much every time. | ||
| Pmjolly |
I had another thought. I screwed the fan down on my wooden workbench to test it. I did not want it flipping out of my hand or falling on the floor. Now that I think about it, it did not have proper air flow while screwed down against a flat surface. I wonder how that affected the test. Hmmmmmmmm. Silveradotx, all you have to do to test it on the bike is turn the key on and ground the correct pin on the ECM. I think it was pin 6? I don't have the manual with me. You might be able to get a wire to fit in the back of the ECM wire connector, or you might have to skin a spot off the insulation. Make sure it is the correct pin. You don't want to ground something else and fry something. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
If it helps, my 07(S) manual (99490-07YA) verifies pin 6 (bk/o) is the ecm wire to the gray terminal. The Y/BN runs to the fuse box. | ||
| Silveradotx |
Well, I know what I'll be doing when I get home this evening. | ||
| Greg_e |
black/orange is the same color on the 03 9R in case someone references back to this thread. |
