| Author | Message | ||
     Sketchy |
HELP, I have now done this twice. The top bolt has completely cracked thus the nut has fallen off and needs to be re-drilled , etc etc. first time it happened, it was under warranty and now HD says it will cost me 5 to 6hrs labor, ($390). I need to know how hard is this to fix, what I can do to prevent this in the future and any other help would be greatly appreciated. I have a 2009 XB12R with a KN Air Filter and Drummer Exhaust. Everything else is just cosmetic. HELP HELP HELP! | ||
| Sketchy |
trying to attach pics | ||
| Greg_e |
There is a tool that bolts to the surviving stud and aligns with the port, it has a guide for the drill bit on the other end.Assuming it is the front port, not a huge job and can probably be done while still on the bike. Rear head really should come off to do the work. I think asb sells the tool as do a few other places. | ||
| Greg_e |
Americansportbike.com | ||
| Sketchy |
greg-e, can u email me at thecarguyguam@gmail.com? ill send u picks as it is the front but i want u to see what i am talking about | ||
| Reepicheep |
Pics will help. I assume you mean one of the header studs sheared. That shouldn't happen on an XB unless something else was wrong (torqued too tight, some other mounting bolt in the exhaust system popped out. I lost one on a 9sx, but it was because the front bolt from the muffler hanger came out and I didn't notice. 5 to 6 hours is on the high side of normal. It would probably take me that long, but I would expect a pro to be able to do it in 3. They need that $100 Jims tool to do it as well, but I assume they have that already. How long between the repair and the recurrence? | ||
| Sifo |
I agree that it shouldn't be a reoccurring problem. When it's put back together this time (assuming your do it yourself) have the connections at the heads and collector loose (just snug) until the muffler is secure in place. Then torque the other fasteners. This prevents putting a strain on the headers that can break studs and crack headers. That may or may not be cause of the problem in the first place. +1 on the Jim's tool. It's the right way to do the job. Expensive to buy it. More expensive to pay a mechanic to buy his though.  | ||
| Greg_e |
Best way to do pictures is get a free Photobucket account and post links. I did not find this tool at American Sport Bike so here is a link that has a good picture: http://www.bikebandit.com/jims-exhaust-stud-drill- plate?WT.mc_id=1484958 Anyone have the dimensions of the exhaust port and stud placement? I might want to build my own repair tool. Should have measured when I had the heads off months ago, didn't think about it at the time. Nothing against the Jim's tool, but $100 is a lot of money for something I should be able to carve out of aluminum for about $10 and a couple hours of time at my mill. | ||
| Greg_e |
OK, I looked harder: http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/16029.html [sorry, editing posts and inserting links into the edit is a pain, so new post] | ||
| Reepicheep |
Greg, I tried building my own tool. I bought an extra exhaust flange, welded a guide onto it, and put a square hole through it on the drill press. Then I bolted it to the good stud, and used it as a guide to drill. It was better than doing it by hand, but still very difficult to keep in place. The problems I had were keeping it lined up while I was working (it wants to pivot on the good stud) and getting the hole in precisely the right place in the first place. In hindsight, I wished I had bought the tool... though no doubt a good machinist with good tools could certianly build a good one. If I had to try again, I would: 1) Use the flange to cut a plate of steel the right size. 2) Use the flange to locate the hole for the "good" remaining stud. 3) Put epoxy putty on the back of the plate, and cover it with a cut up nitrle glove. Thicker putty where the exhaust port would be, thinner where the "bad stud" sits. 4) Attach the plate to the bike with the nitrle glove in place using the good stud. Snug it up. 5) Let the epoxy putty cure. At that point, I have a flat plate that will index perfectly into the exhaust port I am working on. I also have an imprint of where the second broken stud should be. The first imprint keeps the jig in place while I drill, the second lets me find the right place to drill the guide hole. Oh. But I still need to weld the guide on. So I guess I would have needed to weld that on before I started (with no hole). Then drilled it on the drill press once I found where the center should be. Oh. But that's mild steel I am welding and drilling. So it won't be a super durable drill guide. And I haven't worked out the depth stop yet. Suddenly, the $100 tool is looking pretty cheap... I believe it even includes the right sized drill bit. And if I wasn't going to pony up for the Jim's tool, then maybe I would just try and be really careful with a hand drill and left hand drill bits and no jig. Just don't get off center, and don't drill crooked. It's a roll of the dice, the drilled stud may spin right out, or you make bugger up a $500 head. | ||
| Sifo |
I bet they can be found "slightly used" on flea-bay on a regular basis too. | ||
| Jramsey |
"If I had to try again, I would:" Bill,find a buddy with a lathe & mill and a hour to kill. 3-1/4" round x 7/8" thick Aluminum,turn a spud .300 tall 1.900 dia.,then wack off the excess in the mill so it resembles the oem flange ,next drill two 5/16" holes on 2.562 centers and redrill one 7/16". then press in a 1/4" drill bushing.  (Message edited by Jramsey on March 22, 2012) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Sigh. I wish I had more tools. And more talent.  | ||
| Al_lighton |
Bill wrote "That shouldn't happen on an XB unless something else was wrong (torqued too tight, some other mounting bolt in the exhaust system popped out. I lost one on a 9sx, but it was because the front bolt from the muffler hanger came out and I didn't notice. " Spot on... That front clamp, and the bolt that goes through the engine chin bushings, is one of the few pre-flight checks that an XB owner should be getting into the habit of..I've seen broken studs, cracked headers, cracked mufflers, etc. all because the front support wasn't there. Don't re-use the front clamps, and get into the habit of looking there while your helmeting/gloving up, }and you'll save yourself a lot of eventual grief. | ||
| Greg_e |
Al, A little more than that needs to be done too. The rear clamps should be tightened first so that everything can shift properly as things get tight. Next would be the front clamp and mount, then the Torca around the pipe. Too many people start with the Torca and front clamp causing a lot of stress when they force the rear to align. And James, thanks I think I may make one of these for my kit. Should be able to accomplish everything on my little desktop mill or maybe even send the design to Shapeways and have them print it in stainless. | ||
| Greg_e |
Based on the measurements above, I created a 3D model and tried to make it cheap enough to print, but there is a lot of material that needs to be in there so it doesn't make sense to buy it... But it's neat to look at. Click on the arrow on the image and it will rotate, you can drag it to other angles to see how it would need to be printed to make it relatively cheap. Click on the materials to see just how not cheap printing can be. http://www.shapeways.com/model/515968/ae99940b9912 78677ae9519db06155dc | ||
| Sketchy |
3000 miles between last time and this time. I am lost and strapped financially so I dont know what to do and how to do it. I feel lost at this point and cant ride which is even worse. I am so not mechanically inclined so me doing any of this is just a bad idea. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Sorry to hear that Sketchy, it's a shame you aren't closer or I'd help you out. You did talk to the dealer, right? 3000 miles between their repair and a second failure, especially if you didn't touch anything in the exhaust in between, sounds like something I would feel like I should make right if I were them. | ||
| Sketchy |
Im not getting much love out here as everyone needs money these days, even the dealer.  | ||
| Trafford |
One last input to the other posts....the stud nuts are not to be tightened too much...the torque setting is very low (for a reason!!) Many people check these at some point and there is often an easy half to full turn available on the wrench....so they do it. Problem is ...the nuts were probably at their perfect torque for longevity. Later the studs will shear, and the tears start..... (Message edited by trafford on April 18, 2012) |
