| Author | Message | ||
     Fdl3 |
In my discussions with (to put it nicely) non-Buell supporters, a common idea keeps coming up: HD and Buell will eventually be forced into dropping air-cooled engines for liquid-cooled ones in order to satisfy upcoming EPA regulations. In fact, there seems to be a strong desire by some people to see HD "toppled" from their "lofty" market dominance, and be "forced" into changing their product from air-cooled motorcycles to liquid-cooled ones - all in order to "comply" with EPA regulations. Naturally, since Buell is owned by HD, Buell gets lumped into this fervor; but I do not sense this same fervor against other motorcycle companies with air-cooled products. Why is the anti-HD/Buell crowd so wishful for governmental regulations in order to force HD/Buell to change?  | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Why is the anti-HD/Buell crowd so wishful for governmental regulations in order to force HD/Buell to change? I think it has more to do with the attitude of the riders rather than any scorn towards the bikes. You know how it goes, you wave at the HD rider & they flip you off. Or they tell you your bike is a pile of 5hit, etc etc. After awhile you tend to associate all of them as being jerks & think that if they were forced to ride watercooled bikes & lose the drag pipes that they wouldnt be able to say squat to anyone. | ||
| Bomber |
like dyna said -- also, americans tend to like the underdog, and many view HDI as the top of the heap (I know it doesn't make sense, but this is an emotional issue, not a rational one) also, folks like to validate their own choices, and knocking what they view as a different breed of cat (HD) makes em feel good . . . . from what I've read, HDI products are doing as well as anyone, and better than many, in terms of preparing to meet future air pollution regs (wish the same could be said about some of ht big deisels round here caff caff) | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
I get to experince both sides of the fence since I ride both the HD as well as the R1. Its hilarious to pull up on the R1 while wearing a Harley shirt & have the Ultra rider next to you call you a fag. Or ride the HD & wear a yamaha shirt & the sportbike guys wont even acknowledge your existence. But wear the proper costume on either bike & the owners of similar style bikes act as if they are your best bud. Even tho 5 minutes ago they flipped you off when you were on your other bike. Buncha @sswipes. | ||
| Josh_ |
The current Buells meet the 2008+ requirements. And do it without AIR pumps or catalytic converters. | ||
| Fdl3 |
R1DynaSquid: I can just picture each of the scenarios you described! How true, how true...  Bomber: If there is one thing about Buell that I have discovered to be true, it is this: you will either like it or not, there is no in-between. Josh_: That is exactly my point. Here we have an "old school", "technological dinosaur", "air-cooled" engine that may be more EPA-compliant than some other "latest and greatest", "liquid-cooled" engines - AND YET, Buell is still knocked (pardon the pun). Frustrating. | ||
| M1combat |
It'll be a good long while on the pollution emissions making them switch, they are (The Buell engines anyway) VERY efficient when it comes to burning fuel. Noise emissions on the other hand... The water jacket in a liquid cooled bike helps a lot to reduce the noise the bikes make. We don't have that luxury. I don't see the EPA clamping down on noise emissions too much any time soon though. | ||
| Bomber |
the good thing about people acting like toilet paper is that it makes it easy figuring out who you'd like to spend time with edited by bomber on July 20, 2004 | ||
| Ortegakid |
R1, so funny,every sunday, in my full leathers and sliders,etc,I get a wave from almost every sport biker,nada from the harley bikers,but in the afternoon in my jeans and black jacket,the sportys won't wave.So stupid,I wave anyways,always will! | ||
| Starter |
The reason the Buells are so good with the emissions is the old Power = Air + Fuel. You want 150hp at the rear and you'll have to use lots more fuel. It's simple. | ||
| Dago |
Why is the anti-HD/Buell crowd so wishful for governmental regulations in order to force HD/Buell to change? Perhaps it's actually a Buell owner who's tired of trying to find decent aftermarket products to soup up his/her bike, and this is their way of forcing HD into building an engine capable of some serious (and reliable) juice! | ||
| M1combat |
I'm not sure that's it Starter... I think it's the mixture and the efficiency of the burn. Getting the proper amount of air and fuel in so that there isn't too much of either coming out in an "unused" state. I could be wrong though, I only have a limited understanding of the subject. If that was the case though, you couldn't get high HP big inch engines (Corvettes and the like) to pass. | ||
| Starter |
It is to do with the burning efficiency, combustion chamber desgin etc, but my experience quarry machines and it is surprising that there are so many of the same engines kicking around all rated for vastly different power. Sometimes the difference is as simple as the fuel pump, other times if it is turbo then the boost will differ as well. But as soon as you start to increase power past a certain point the returns of increased power for increased fuel soon diminishes. And I'm not talking a couple of litres an hour but hundreds of litres of extra deisel burnt for no apparent increase in prduction, just the mechanic being able to sprout off over how well the machines are running. I was just trying to put it simply. I am pretty sure that if people get the 100+rwhp figures that the fuel economy of the XB would suffer dramatically. It surprised people to no end that the XB9 truns 50% better fuel economy in the twisties than a CBR600 F4i riding at the same pace. Kinda makes up for the low amount of fuel carried. | ||
| Mr_cuell |
Around here we don't have any Harley riders that would flip you the bird, that I've come across yet at least. They're mostly older family guys or retirees. Couple fat chicks too every once in a while. All nice poeple. I feel like I fit with both groups rather than don't fit with either. Sometimes I ride the XB with my old peanut helmet from the Harley days, and that must look kooky. The sport bike crowd I have yet to interact with too much, but the few I have ridden with are really intrigued by the Buell, and want to know all about it. We have the OC Chopper wanna be's too, with their clapped out girlfriends on the back, but I don't know what to make of them. They seem sort of cartoonish. I would like the D&D though to give em a little something when they fire up their 112in. Shovelhead with shorty's. | ||
| Blake |
I think in all my riding I've had one rider flip me off when I waved to him. If I recall correctly, it was in Sturgis during the annual rally. I was on my Buell. Everyone else usually waves back no matter what they are riding. Must be a lot of grumpy dudes up your way Dyna. Down here in Texas we all get along just fine. | ||
| Tatsu |
I don't ride with Harley crowd at all. I ride with the sport bikers, but when we pass a Harley crowd everyone waves. | ||
| Vaughn |
Actually most bikes don't run closed-loop fuel control (ie, no O2 sensor) like Buells do. Even though many are fuel injected, they just run off a fuel map that compensates for temperature and altitude but don't actually optimize for 14.7 to 1 fuel ratio. 14.7 to 1 is optimum for emissions, fuel economy and power. Buells will learn and correct even as the engine wears. I know something about the subject having been a GM Powertrain engineer and writing software for fuel control. | ||
| Koz5150 |
I think Dyna just makes people grumpy. I have never been flipped off by anyone I waved to whether it was on my M2 or my Honda Nighthawk. I must say though, the time the couple on 50cc scooters gave me the two fingers pointed low wave I laughed a little before I waved back. It wouldn't have been so funny except they were wearing matching nylon jackets and the wife had a wire basket with flowers on the front. It was a riot | ||
| Cataract2 |
Never had a problem with HD or sport riders here myself. Guess it just depends on the area. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
ive never had a problem with eather in fact i grew up around the h-d croud and it was usually familly people and really good people i used to go to alot of hog rallys when i was little and it was just abunch of fun going family people though they looked tuff most of them were good people now the sport riders usually to me have been kinda snooty they have always had that "im better than you attitude" every time ive been around them but i guess cuz it was always rich kids that there daddys bought them there bikes and they were snooty before they got the bike | ||
| Grndskpr |
The current Buells meet the 2008+ Are you sure, i thought it was 2006, after that the rules had not actually been set yet R | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Lord knows Jersey has its share of a'holes but in 42 years of riding I've never had an unkind incident with another rider. A wave at anything from a dirtbike to a chopper usually returns the same. I find myself parking my 9s in between the crusers and sportbikes at events as it doesn't really fit in to either, but then .... neither do I. | ||
| Buelluk |
I have never had anyone flip me off or call me a fag or any kind of insult, sure the occassional Harley rider refuses to acknwldege the wave / nod / whatever, but i think that is mostly the RUB who is scared to take his hand of the grip | ||
| Smadd |
I'm not offended if someone doesn't wave. Depending on circumstances/mood, I don't always wave (but always attempt to return wave when waved to). And I haven't noticed any difference amongst the types of bikes/riders at all. Some do... some don't... no big deal. I have noticed that "lone" bikers (on any type/brand)tend to wave more than ones in groups. But don't take it so hard! There are more important things to worry about in life.  Hey! I thought this thread was about Buell and the EPA! Sorry!  Steve | ||
| Fdl3 |
Sheesh, Smaad is right. You guys sure know how to pick another subject and run with it...! It's all good. | ||
| Battleblue03 |
A word from the inside if you will, I work for a company who deals with both harley and the issue at hand, we are the soul supplier of cats to harley for california bikes, for obvious reasons i wont tell u who i work for but that harley isnt going to loose the engine or sound of their bike, the engineers are dead set on keeping true to their roots. However what will happen is all harley bikes will become injected and have cats. | ||
| Fdl3 |
I don't mind the FI, although I know some who would. In fact, I considered it a big plus on the XB. Now cats are a different story. I would not like to see them. | ||
| Josh_ |
I think it was actually 2007 CARB requirements, but I'm not positive. Where's anon when we need him? | ||
| M1combat |
Well, one of the video's on the Buell site has Erik saying that they are very close to 2008. | ||
| Bomber |
serious attitudes among some HD riders round here . . . I'd love to think it's not the nearness of the Iron Tower, but who knows . . . FI and cats are coming for damn near everything -- glad I got my riding mower when I did (now I need to port it and get a big carb for it) |
