| Author | Message | ||
     Firebolt020283 |
isnt the v-rod motor wider than the motor currently in our xb's though it would be neat i think they would have to build a new frame mabe wider than the current ones but its just another thought from a really bored guy in iraq | ||
| Gonen60 |
would be interesting...  | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
nice picture but what about the radiator??? | ||
| Brucelee |
I am so there when the VROD buell comes out! | ||
| M1combat |
Not I. Cornering speed will decrease at the limit. Not my cup of tea. | ||
| Brucelee |
"Not I. Cornering speed will decrease at the limit. Not my cup of tea." Maybe, maybe not. Erik is no dummy when it comes to cornering. | ||
| Gonen60 |
might just have to drop the motor lower, and mount the exhaust under the tail section...umm, now were talking!!! | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
guess we would just have to wait and see what the future might hold | ||
| M1combat |
I think we'll see a air cooled 60 degree OCH first... | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
here just a another thought wouldnt the vrod make the xb alot heavier than it is now i dont know about every one eles but i like the fact that my bike is light as hell | ||
| Anonymous |
Let's see, we'll make a wide frame to go around the engine, so the rider can't fit well. Then we'll lower the wide engine so it really compromises ground clearance, and you can't lean it over. Then we'll lengthen the wheelbase a bunch to get the radiator in and to fit the exhaust system up between the swingarm and tire. This is good, it'll take weight off the front wheel and destabilize the bike. And then we'll hang the huge muffler in the tail to slow down the handling more...now we're talking! But wait there is more! With the extra 50 lbs or so we've added with the motor, radiator, water, hoses, etc, as well as the wider, longer frame, and the extra weight in exhaust and swingarm, we'll have to put on more brakes and bigger chassis parts to try to get the thing to stop and handle. Why, it's the gift that never stops giving... | ||
| Freyke |
Anon, I guessin that the VR1000 was a mojor P.O.S. then?... Yikes! Seems to me that if the VROD motor essentially started lfe in the VR1000 (Superbike)and then it tookk a whole lot "silly" reverse engineering to make it "look good" for the sake of making it "look good" in the VROD; My guess is it should take somewhat less of an engineering effort to package it back into a sportbike format? Am I wrong here?... Bueller, Bueller,... Anyone, Anyone..... kk//kef | ||
| Misato |
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| Firebolt020283 |
good point freyke hell for that matter lets take the vr1000 power plant and put it in there (hopefully tweeked some) being as it apears smaller than the vrod engine besides its a sport bike the engine dosent have to be that pretty hell us buell gues are the only ones with pretty engines in a sport bike | ||
| Court |
>>>>good point freyke hell for that matter lets take the vr1000 power plant and put it in there The VROD motor and the VR1000 are related as are eggs and golf balls. Are you certain you want a VR1000 motor for the street? What price would you be willing to pay? Say, for instance, if the bike could be mass produced and cut the price in half, would you pay $25,000? I know some folks who might, but need to be convinced that a viable business case can be built that would support diverting Buell resources. Interesting Court | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
but whos to say that it couldnt happen | ||
| M1combat |
No good points Freyke... "I guessin that the VR1000 was a mojor P.O.S. then?" Not really, as I understand it, the race team (the entire team) couldn't be consistent because Harley couldn't really figure out if they wanted to race. "Seems to me that if the VROD motor essentially started lfe in the VR1000 (Superbike)and then it tookk a whole lot "silly" reverse engineering to make it "look good" for the sake of making it "look good" in the VROD" It doesn't just "look good" in the V-Rod. It does exactly what it should do in the V-Rod. It's just that it WON'T do what we need it to do in the Buell XB frame. It's too big, heavy and wet. Did you know that the V-Rod engine was designed by porsche? I'll quote Court here "The VROD motor and the VR1000 are related as are eggs and golf balls." "My guess is it should take somewhat less of an engineering effort to package it back into a sportbike format?" An engineering effort to the frame or the engine? If we go with frame we get the result that Anony speaks of (and lose all the brilliance of the XB handling if you ask me, I don't want any longer of a wheel base). If we go engine... Well all things are possible with enough money, but I still think it'll be air cooled and not really based on the V-Rod engine. They'll do something in the future I assure you, I think they'll have to. It won't be a V-Rod engine though. | ||
| Kaudette |
Maybe it's just wishful thinking but I get the feeling the VROD cases & primary can be reduced in width at least 2cm if one focuses on utility & not worrying so much about chrome & styling... On the top end, as it is a 60°, the motor should not be as "tall" as the XB so this should leave some room in the under-motor sling for the exhaust. Rework for a dry sump and keep the oil in the swingarm - or even look as a smaller radiator and fluids in both sides... I guess the plant may be a bit longer however the rear swingarm mount should be able to compensate, keeping the front end the same... Sure, there are some design issues & chassis dynamics I have no visibility to however I simply do not accept it cannot be done. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
uve got some good ideas kaudette | ||
| Freyke |
I'm with Kaudette on this one... I just hate to be lock stepping in the mother ship corporate line... BTW, golf balls and eggs are both white and round-ish.... Obviously,(Court)you took me entirely too literal on the VR-1000 motor... I’m not implying "drag one off the shelf and chuck it in the frame"... It clearly would take some extra effort to it right... Typically, things worth doing right take extra effort... Some of you guys make it seem as though we're talking about inventing a perpetual motion machine... kk//kef | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
well its not like u can make a right or rong coment in here and all of have different ideas but all in all the people that have the say so on what happens is the buell devolpers and h-d so whos to say what they do who knows they may come up with a completly new platform totally different from the vrod the vr1000 or the evo who can tell | ||
| Brucelee |
I don't think I was suggesting that you can take the VROD engine JUST AS IT SITS in the current bike and drop it into the current XB chassis JUST AS IT SITS. However, as folks have already pointed out, the engine can and would have to be modified from its present form to make this all work. Can it be done? I bet that it can if Erik and the HD boys want to. And I stand my my assertion that that combo would be a very big winner. I have ridden and heard the VROD engine in action. Man, that is the puppy I want in MY streetfighter. Failing that, I would take a Nallinized 9 with a sweet shifting 6 speed and easier clutch! | ||
| M1combat |
"Sure, there are some design issues & chassis dynamics I have no visibility to however I simply do not accept it cannot be done." I'm sure it could be done too... I just don't WANT it done and I don't think that the brass at BMC or HD want it done either. It would make a LESS capable sport bike. The engine is too heavy. As far as the engine being shorter because it's a 60 degree engine... I don't "think" it is (keep in mind it's got it's cams up there) and even if that's the case, utilizing that "benefit" to raise the engine would raise the CG. VERY BAD considering what they designed the XB for in the first place. I agree... It's a great sounding engine. I don't think they could make it light enough. I seem to remember an anony posting on this subject months ago and made some VERY excellent points about why they would most likely not use the V-Rod lump in an XB. I really feel that HD will team up with either Ford or Porsche for the next iteration of the Buell engine and it'll be a good thing. I think it'll be chain driven OHC or DOHC at 60 or more degrees, very small, plenty-O-torque, very air cooled. VERY cutting edge, just as our current engine is. It's extremely efficient and makes very good torque/HP for it's weight and fuel useage (including everything necessary to run it). A V-Rod engine would kill the XB. Nay, murder it. It would handle no more. Lean angle - Murdered. Low COG - murdered. Wheel base - Murdered. Naked look - murdered. Simplicity - Mostly Murdered. It would wheelie pretty good though, and it would sound very nice... Look up the terms Polar Moment of Inertia and Angular Momentum. I don't want a freakin radiator in front of my engine, and I don't want a damn exhaust anywhere but directly under my engine. Pure brilliance went into the design and implementation of the XB. They did everything they did because they knew what they wanted. If they had wanted something that the V-Rod engine could have given them, methinks they would have used it. I don't mean to bash on anyone because they think it's a good idea. I'm just trying to point out that for what Erik and co. are aiming at, it's a step very far in the wrong direction. edited by M1combat on July 19, 2004 | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
m1 u make a good point cuz i read an artical one time and mr buell said he didnt want a liquid cooled motor for this bike due to the weight issues and though maybe the liquid cooled motors may be a wrong step most of us agree that buell does need some kind of change in the engine department and besides that we can all guess and make thoughts as to what they might be contimplating at buell and h-d enginering if anything at all but we wont know what is going to happen untill they come out with something i personally like the evo dirivtive we are curently using i just think that they should consider maybe putting alittle more pwer in it and it would be fine | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
I don't think I was suggesting that you can take the VROD engine JUST AS IT SITS in the current bike and drop it into the current XB chassis JUST AS IT SITS. There are more than 1 example sitting in a certain non descript building in Mukwonago WI. The V-rod motor will fit. I have seen one of the bikes, Jose measured a motor & measured one of the Hals race bikes that was bare & he too knows it will fit. And the eggs vs golfballs deal while partially correct is also incorrect. Sure the motors have different cams & induction systems, but the basic style, the 60 degree angle, the size of the motor, etc etc is the same. The revo motor in the V-Rod has a number of BS bolt on covers to make it look more like what traditional HD motors are "supposed" to look like. | ||
| Bomber |
I am confused by, among very many other things) this line of inquiry -- while it's entertaining to discuss (and see, Dyna's right, btw), I'm not sure what the end result is supposed to be putting a vrod motor in an xb frame is one conversation -- increasing the power available in an xb frame is another . . . . . me, I find the second line of inquiry more engaging than the first I think (gasp) that eggs and golf balls is pretty accurate . . . . basic architecture if the vrod and vr1000 is similar, but, then, so is the architectture of the xb series engines and a k model, and no one's confusing those {grin} | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
cool insite r1 so u mean there is a prototype of this concept and were not all crazy for conceving the idea and would there happen to be any pictures floating around???? | ||
| M1combat |
I see the cam and induction (not to mention cooling and transmission) systems as being much more the "major" portions of the design. They are different. I would say that an engine that has the same induction and cam systems would be the "same basic style"... Not an engine with the same size and V angle. I think the statement was pretty close to perfectly correct. The external visual cues are "White/Roundish" for one and "60 degree/1000cc" for the other. The similarities pretty much end there (other than the whole internal combustion thing I suppose). Court was trying to convey the fact that other than shape and size they are VERY dissimilar (and they are). | ||
| Gonen60 |
what is the point of posting as Anonymous??? And then we'll hang the huge muffler in the tail to slow down the handling more... really slows those other rocket ship sportbikes down!!! radiator, water, hoses, etc plenty of other very, very fast bikes carry these items just dandy! I'm not a cycle designer, But I hate the I can't attitude.. The V-rods not going in a Buell, because HD says so...they are saving it, to vamp into the HD sportbike coming soon  | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
lol u do have a point cuz very little do u know that mr buell actually tryed putting the vr1000 in one of his bikes but h-d didnt let it happen for what ever reason i think it was cuz they didnt want to mass produce the engine due to the fact that they were using the race bike as a testing platform more than an actuall product the end result came out to be the vrod and it seems to be doing pretty good so far |
