| Author | Message | ||
     Xmxracer |
Hello all, I just bought a 2006 xb12r Firebolt with 35k on it and I think I have an issue. When the engine is run for a while and good and hot, the check engine (red) light flickers a little. I changed the oil and filter with Mobil1 15w50 racing and a buell filter. Still the same thing. When its cold this does not happen. I know quite a bit about car engines and if this was happening in a car engine I would look at the oil sender/pump. If the were ok, I would look at bearings. Is it the same with the V-Twins? Any other ideas? Thanks and sorry for my first post being a question! | ||
| Brumbear |
I bet your your exhaust servo is screwing up a lil bit | ||
| Xmxracer |
Thanks for the reply Brumbear. Is this a known problem? How do I check it? How would this cause a problem? | ||
| Froggy |
I'm running out the door, so I can't get you links, but look up the procedure to pull the engine codes off the ECM by jumping pins in the connector. That will give us a better idea of how to help, but Brumbear is probably right, some years the exhaust actuator has plastic gears, and they easily break. Newer actuators have metal gears. | ||
| Xmxracer |
Thanks Froggy, I'll search that and let you know. | ||
| Hughlysses |
To check the exhaust servo, remove the outer airbox cover (the colored part). The servo sits on top of the inner air box cover (black plastic) and has a throttle-type cable connected to it that goes to the bottom of the engine to a valve inside the muffler. To test it: put the "kill" switch in the off position, turn the ignition key to "on", twist the throttle grip fully open and hold, and flip the kill switch to "run". The metal quadrant that the cable hooks to the exhaust servo should rotate counter clockwise about 180 degrees. The servo should then rotate back to the original position. If the servo only goes part way open, or goes a little ways, and hesitates, and then goes open, you've got a bad servo. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
"If the servo only goes part way open, or goes a little ways, and hesitates, and then goes open, you've got a bad servo." - or a damaged cable. Mine frayed at the muffler end. They fixed it under warranty. | ||
| Xmxracer |
Code: 21 Servo Test: The servo opens all the way and doesn't hesitate when I do the test the Hughlysses suggested. Wondering, I pulled on that cable with the engine running to hear what it would sound like. Would that cause the code? Thanks again for all of the help. | ||
| Xmxracer |
FYI: I found the diagnostic connector under the fairing. Forgot to mention that the battery cables were a little loose. Still doing it after 60+ mile ride at idle. Red check engine light flickers at idle. Do I need to replace the servo? | ||
| Brumbear |
not sure but i would | ||
| Akbuell |
Actually, had a somewhat similar situation with my X-1. Turned out I had partially dislodged the wire to the oil pressure switch. Connected that properly, problem solved. Might be something to check. Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| Hughlysses |
It's definitely worth checking things like the oil pressure switch connection, but code 21 is the servo. Maybe it's not moving the full range of travel- since you've never seen one work before, you really don't know how far it should turn. IIRC, it should turn at least 90 degrees, maybe a little more. The other possibility is it's not returning to the completely-closed position. Also, disconnect the cable from the servo (DON'T turn the quadrant on the servo by hand as you'll hose the gears inside) and verify you can pull it fully open and that it moves smoothly. A sticking cable can keep the servo from working properly. Check the end down at the muffler and make sure it's connected and not broken too. | ||
| Xmxracer |
Akbuell, I did change the oil.Maybe I messed it up. I will check that, thanks. Hughlesses, you may very well be right. I will check to see if the cable opens the valve all the way. It is getting detailed right now. As soon as they are done I will let you know how these test go. Thanks again everone. | ||
| Xmxracer |
Ok, they had the Airbox cover off so I pulled on the cable. I seems to open all the way no problem. I did the WOT key on test and I watched the valve open and it looks like it opens at least 90 degs and then closed smoothly and quickly. When they are done I will check the wire on the PSI switch. Question, would there be any issues with leaving the valve open? Sounds better! | ||
| Hughlysses |
Question, would there be any issues with leaving the valve open? Sounds better! No real issues, but you will feel a drop in mid-range torque with the valve open. It really does work as advertised. | ||
| Xmxracer |
Yep, loose a little mid for sure. Checked the connector on the oil pressure switch and all looks good. Must be a servo. I think I will let it cycle through 50 starts to see if the code goes away. I just don't understand why the light only flickers hot at idle. In a car engine that could be oil pressure issues. BTW, while the air filter cover was off I opened up the air filter cover by drilling 1" holes in it. WOW! I didn't know that it would be that loud! I'll get pics up as soon as I can get them copied to a FTP server. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I just don't understand why the light only flickers hot at idle. In a car engine that could be oil pressure issues. There are separate lights for oil pressure and "check engine". Are you sure the "check engine" light is the one flickering? You can see them both when you first turn the key on. | ||
| Xmxracer |
Hughlysses, Since the bike is new to me I did not notice that. I need to Ride it a while to test it, but I am starting to think it may have been the oil pressure light. I sure hope not! | ||
| Hughlysses |
Even if it is, it could be just a bad sender. Oil pressure at idle/hot is very low on these things, ~7-12 PSI. The shop manual mentions that if the idle is too low (1000 RPM or less) you can get a flickering oil light at idle. Idle should be 1050-1150 RPM; if that's low that'll be real easy to fix. Adjustment is between the left side scoop and the frame. (Message edited by Hughlysses on August 07, 2011) | ||
| Xmxracer |
Yep I found the idle adjuster while changing the plugs yesterday. The cable was wearing into the top cover on the front head. I wrapped it with a silicone hose to stop it. It idles just above 1k. | ||
| Xmxracer |
Forgot to mention the it seems to be running very lean. | ||
| Brumbear |
If it's the oil light maybe the pump gear is worn not to hard to fix | ||
| Xmxracer |
Brumbear, I was wondering about that. I have to do more research but I thought that it would be a work/fail item. I didn't know that they could just wear out. | ||
| Brumbear |
it's just gears so yeah they can wear but they usually give a little clunking noise as well but not sure on that? Is it the red light flickering or the yellow? | ||
| Xmxracer |
Red, I will check it today after my ride and let you know what light it is. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Sean- the oil pump drive gear is "all or nothing"; either it's driving the pump at the correct speed or the teeth have broken off and it's not pumping ANY oil. It's possible the pump itself is worn internally which could result in low oil pressure. For that matter, have you done an oil change since you got the bike? The PO may have used wrong viscosity (too thin) or maybe it hasn't been changed in forever and the viscosity has broken down. I'd suggest changing the oil to known correct viscosity oil (20W-50 is what most people use. If you've still got a flicker under hot idle conditions, bump the RPM up a tiny bit and see if it goes away. If still in doubt, remove the oil pressure switch, temporarily install a gage, and check the actual pressure against spec (7-12 PSI at hot idle). Remember that the bottom end of this engine uses roller bearings; it's not like 99.99% of automotive engines where low oil pressure is a sign of worn bearing inserts. | ||
| Xmxracer |
Hughlyssess, Yes I have change both the trans and engine oils. That was the first thing I did. Trans got Redline V-Twin and the engine got Mobil 1 15w50. The old trans oil looked clean but engine was dirty. The spark plugs looked like they had not been changed in a while. After riding it today I see that it is the red oil light not he engine light like I previously thought. The idle is just above 1k. When I have a chance I will put an oil pressure gauge on it to see what the oil pressure is. Thanks for your help. | ||
| Hogs |
I have replaced a few of them Oil pressure units, they do Screw up over the years... | ||
| Xmxracer |
Thanks for the info Hogs. How difficult are the to replace? What is the cost of the parts? | ||
| Hughlysses |
The sender should be very easy to replace. Remove the chin fairing, disconnect the wire, unscrew sender (you might want to cover the plug or cover the hole at this point to prevent oil from dripping out). Put teflon tape or sealant on threads of new sender, screw in new sender, reconnect wire, reinstall chin fairing. Similar automotive senders are <$10; hopefully the Buell part will be about the same. | ||
| Xmxracer |
I figured it out, and do I feel stupid. When I was changing the oil filter the the adapter came off with the filter. subsequently when that happened the check valve fell out and into the oil pan. I am changing the oil and filter now. I'm sure it will fix the issue. Thanks for all of the help guys. | ||
| Akbuell |
Glad you found the problem, and happy that it was not a serious mechanical failure. Thanks much for letting us know what the solution was. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Cool! No shame in a goof like that- you more than made up for it by figuring it out. |
