| Author | Message | ||
     Stealthxb |
"at the end of the day a 400cc riceburner will still toast an XB9 in a drag race and a 600cc will do the XB12" i met a 600cc Katana tonight that would disagree!  edited by stealthxb on June 10, 2004 | ||
| Kaudette |
Starter, I would tend to agree with you however the Buells are not about straight lines. Sure, we will get dusted by any modern 600 IL4 in a (LONG) straight line but once we get to the twisties, it's a whole new story. I've been out with a number of good riders on nice bikes, SP-2, 955 Daytona, FZR 600, Z750 and not one of these guys has been able to keep up in the corners (tight - 2nd/3rd gear type mountain roads). On top of that, I don't even need to push it hard to keep the distance with these guys. The Buell plant may be 50 years removed from "modern", but I do have to give it to the guys in that they built a bike to simply "works". For the moment the best corner carver I've ever ridden (with good rubber), but I'm still looking forward to the KTM Duke II 990!  | ||
| Torqer |
"oh it's pretty good with 105hp at the wheel but the brand x has a few more". How can you ever expect a bike that runs 75-80hp for a near 1000cc and less than 100hp for a 1200cc to ever compete with that mentality? They'll be inspired when I pass them in a turn. I've seen it happen. Then, if they ride one and feel the real usable power, the light will show itself to them. The 3%ers held a demo event in the mountains of N Ga. and people showed up on all sorts of killer machines... Almost everyone expressed a pleasant surprise in the bikes ride-ability and fun factor. This is how they can compete. Through the riding experience people will begin to realize they are not Rossi, Hayden, Duhmal, or even Nobles. On the flip side, just like NASCAR, some people will always support the racer they idolize the most. True sport enthusiast riders will no the difference when they ride one. Not to mention that I'll be fine with the Buell line not being the highest profile bike on the streets. After all it is different in every sense. That can be frightening... to some consumers. "What if I don't fit in the GSXR mold my friends popped out of" I say let'm have it and I'll see you in the mountains... I'll be the one on an exotic "wheat-rocket" made right here. Your point stands true though... The horsepower hurdle is a tall one. } | ||
| Buellgator |
"wheat-rocket"   | ||
| Coldwthrrider |
Low sales have to be related to dealer exposure. Most people looking for a sport bike do not want to go to a Harley Dealer for reasons posted above. I saw a really interesting article recently (in print, can't find it on the web or I would link it) about Polaris and Victory. For the first few years they expected they had it made because of a vast dealer network of ATV/Snowmobile/Watercraft. It turned out that was actually really bad for cycle sales because bikes are more different that they expected. Recently they scrapped the one dealer method and are putting Victory at bike dealers along with Honda, Yamaha, etc. Sales are going way up (also helped by quality and the Vegas which is less ugly than the original) because people can go look at them with other bikes rather than with a bunch of other rec vehicles. I'm going to get my XB9R tomorrow from a dealer that sells Honda/Yamaha...and Victory (it was a trade in on an R1) and is 350mi away. I have to go that far because the local HD/Buell dealer wants more than 2004 MSRP for a used 2003. I could get a new 12R from DaveS and have warranty for what these guys want for a used 9R with no warranty, but I just can't spend that much. I'm not even ready for service yet but I already hate the HD dealers because of the buying experience, I'm saving almost $3k on essentially the same used bike by going to a non-HD dealer. As difficult as it might be for HD, they may need to let Buells be sold in similar company. I would love to go to a dealer that sells SV1000's next to Buell, next to other similar bikes. When I was a the HD demo day to try the Buells, the line for any HD was huge and nobody cared about the Buells. I could have ridden them all day if I wanted to, on back to back test rides. A few curious people in fringed leather got on them, just because they need to kill some time until they could try a V-Rod. I think better exposure to sport bike buyers would help Buell sales tremendously. That's just my 2 cents. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
The bike is in good shape Eric, I didnt find out if the entire race kit was installed or just the can...im betting the ecm is in there already. What time you planning on being at the dealer? Oh yea...raining like crazy today, supposed to rain next few days. Hope you arent riding home. | ||
| Coldwthrrider |
Thanks so much Dyna! I'm assuming it's the whole race kit but if not at least it has the can which is a start. I'm leaving early tomorrow and hope to get there around noon. If I'm back on the road by 1pm I can be home by dinner! I'm using a utility trailer that is similar to a pickup bed for hauling it so weather is not a problem. I really wanted to ride it home but could not find anyone willing to make the drive with me. If you're around stop by and help load the bike! | ||
| Midknyte |
"wheat-rocket" Bean Burner? | ||
| Glitch |
Wheat-Wocket  | ||
| Jasonxb12s |
Starter,,,In my humble opinion, comparing a street fighter like the XB to an Uncle Ben's bike is like comparing a Cadillac to a Funny Car. Lets see which one is more suited on the streets I ride on a daily basis. I'll take the torqued XB that dodges traffic better, then I'll head to the mountains and compare notes again. However, I'm not with the whole street racin' scene. Nevertheless, I'll stick with my electrical counter top rice cooker for the time being. | ||
| Jmartz |
Starter: Power issues should not rule bike sales. There are many different bikes out there that offer various levels of performance. The problem with Buells is that they have competitive pricing with lackluster performance. This is a bike with stellar low end, modest midrange and non-exixtent top end. I have ben waiting for a model from them that produces 120 RWHP and can spin to 10K rpm or so. Not holding my breath anymore. | ||
| Glitch |
Power issues should not rule bike sales....I have ben waiting for a model from them that produces 120 RWHP It shouldn't but it does to you? Power will always be an issue as long as it's made an issue. My bike does what I ask of it, the only time I've run out of power I was asking for trouble. | ||
| Chainsaw |
"wheat-rocket" I call mine a Cheese-Burner  made in wisconsin, don't cha know) | ||
| Coldwthrrider |
People need to buy bikes for what they are, not for what they aren't. An XB isn't the highest HP bike so people don't consider them. Most people aren't getting a chance to see what the bikes really are because they're hidden in the back of a HD dealer. Most people looking for a sportbike aren't even going to go there and see what they are. I can't believe how many people told me not to get a Buell, some of them were Buell owners (not on this board, friends and relatives who had bad experiences in the past). Most people just don't know or understand, which is why I think a little better dealer exposure would be a good thing. I'm sure it would remain somewhat of a niche bike. | ||
| Glitch |
Cheese-Burner That's a good one! | ||
| Torqer |
Midknyte: Is a bean-burner a Mexican bike? | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
mexican bike  | ||
| Socoken |
one element to the sales issue that i havent seen brought up yet is age. im just guessing here, just going by observation, but id bet the average 600cc rice buyer is at least 10 years younger on average than a buell buyer. im 21, bought my bike when i was 19, and i cant help but feel like im on the left side of the bell curve. whereas on 600cc IL4s, i feel like i would be towards the middle of the same curve. a large part of the problem, i think, is that buells market is older. kids my age, with decent paying jobs, out of Tech school or college, no wives, no kids, want bikes and can afford them. they think a bike will make them cool, or get them chicks. from there, all they know is to buy the bike that is as fast as their buddies rocket, or faster or newer. all they know is peak hp numbers printed in Cycle World, or stories of the great wheelies some kid they know can do on such and such a bike. to be my age, and explain to one of my rice riding buddies why i ride a buell, or would buy a new XB in a second over a new R1, is like trying to talk to a 10 year old kid about astrophysics. but as riders mature, they outgrow that phase, and understand what is really important. Guys with years and years of riding time simply have a deeper, zen-like understanding of riding, that newbie squids cannot possibly comprehend. riders learn to appreciate what makes a Buell great, but its the sorta thing that must be learned, not taught. the downside to that is, older riders have wives and kids and mortgages and buying a new bike is harder for them than it is a 22 year old kid. Buell has done a lot to improve their status among younger riders, better marketing, and a newer, more aggressive styling. but most kids chose one of four bikes that has high hp or has a cool color scheme. most of them couldnt tell one from the others if it was just a silhouette, so styling is lost on many. it would seem to me, that without peak HP, and at a higher price, Buell may never tap into the genre of riders that is the most eager to blow their money on a sportbike. buell might not ever rival any of the big four in sales, but to try and compare Buell, to the 4, is ridiculous. its my humble opinion that Buell has been largely successful. they have overcome the gremlins of the recall and brought up sales and are now selling a product that has shaken the motorcycling industry. thats a big deal for a company whos name a lot of the public still doesnt recognize. In closing, i guess what im trying to say is, Buell may never like the big four rice rockets, but its like comparing an Outback Steakhouse to McDonalds. Sure, one is faster, more popular, cheaper, and more readily available, but once youve had a real steak, those Big Macs seem unfulfilling and soulless. the general masses, being the sheep that they are, will continue to eat at the arches, but those of us who know, will dine on a whole different level. I take great pride in my Buell, and the company. the fact that Mr. Buell makes himself available to talk to at events, and the fact that my bike was made HERE by people like you and i, are just two of the many reasons why i am, and will continue to be loyal. Those kids can keep hurting themselves at McDonalds, but im gonna enjoy my prime rib, and raise a Fosters to Sir Erik Buell. | ||
| Socoken |
sheesh, that got long winded. sorry if i come off as preaching, or condescending, thats not how i meant it. i just wanted to explain how i felt. God knows im only 21 and have a LOT to learn. Chainsaw- no making fun of WI accents! | ||
| Glitch |
Well said Ken. Well said. I've often thought that but didn't know how to say it. I raise a Fosters to you. Here's to ya, kid.  | ||
| Jaredkuper |
Here here! As a fellow member of the left side of the bell curve, I agree. I'm 22, ride my bike to college, and I can definitely see that kids just buy the bike that will fit in with the crowd. I see people just buying the same bike their buddy has, or one that is a year newer, or what matches their helmet. I can also see it when I go to a dealer. The asian bike dealers see me and immediately ask what my friends ride so they can steer me towards the "right" bike. At least the word is spreading. Six months ago, most people around here had never heard of the XB. Now when I pull up to a dealer, I'm usually greeted with, "Nice bike, I heard those things handle pretty well." Of course, there's still only 2 XBs (including mine) within 2 hours of here, but it only takes a snowball to start an avalanche. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
im just guessing here, just going by observation, but id bet the average 600cc rice buyer is at least 10 years younger on average than a buell buyer I guess I blow that theory all to hell. The average Buell owner age..at least for the tubers had to be in the mid 30's range. For the XB's it has dropped quite a bit. I had sportbikes years ago...CBR's, Katanas, etc. Then moved into the cruisers...Viragos, Shadows & my Harley. Then went into the Buells for a while & now at age 41 have come full circle & am back at the sportbikes with the R1. | ||
| Midknyte |
"...In closing, i guess what im trying to say is, Buell may never like the big four rice rockets, but its like comparing an Outback Steakhouse to McDonalds. Sure, one is faster, more popular, cheaper, and more readily available, but once youve had a real steak, those Big Macs seem unfulfilling and soulless. the general masses, being the sheep that they are, will continue to eat at the arches, but those of us who know, will dine on a whole different level..." That's a curious observation. No lie - when I rode my XB home, one of the first things I really wanted to do is go out and eat a steak. | ||
| Gonen60 |
I for One would also like to see 120 Horse Power..But, On the other Hand, and more importantly, You have to also remember most riders do not have the skill level, to exploit what the XBs offer now. The XB is no doubt a great Bike for street riding. The Bike is a JackHammer down low and Packs a solid punch in the Mid-Range. My 2005 wish, A full race fairing and Black Wheels. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
120 hp is all you want? Hmm maybe if I pull a plug wire or 2 off mine I could hit that number  | ||
| Kaudette |
Dyna, try pulling a wire and I still bet it doesn't shake, rattle and roll like a Buell! | ||
| Socoken |
Boy did i mess up Goshgollygeee, i really did it this time. in all my ramblings, i got carried away and hosed the whole thing up. I forgot to add the Dyna clause! In all my heartfelt post, in expressing my thoughts on Buells, i forgot the world revolves around dyna! oh wait, no i didnt, i said AVERAGE.  just poken at ya | ||
| Jasonxb12s |
"but as riders mature, they outgrow that phase, and understand what is really important. Guys with years and years of riding time simply have a deeper, zen-like understanding of riding, that newbie squids cannot possibly comprehend. riders learn to appreciate what makes a Buell great, but its the sorta thing that must be learned, not taught. the downside to that is, older riders have wives and kids and mortgages and buying a new bike is harder for them than it is a 22 year old kid." Good point Socoken | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
older riders have wives and kids and mortgages and buying a new bike is harder for them than it is a 22 year old kid. Dont know about that, most of the guys my age or older have a pretty low mortgage or none at all, the kids have moved out, they make a hell of a lot more than most 22 year olds, etc. | ||
| Socoken |
Dont know about that, most of the guys my age or older have a pretty low mortgage or none at all, the kids have moved out, they make a hell of a lot more than most 22 year olds, etc. your age or older is 40+ right? didnt you just tell me how the average XB buyer was 30's or younger? Kids are expensive too, i was one, i know. there arent a lot of 30 year old guys out there with mortgages? you sure about that? |
