| Author |
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Flyboy
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2011 - 11:00 pm: | 
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mmm, wanna sell it, as is? |
Froggy
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2011 - 11:19 pm: |
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I'm with Andy, that is awesome as much as it sucks! |
Panhead_dan
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2011 - 11:22 pm: |
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I think you are seriously on to something here...
I would be shopping for a used motor and planning on putting an identical top end on it. Then pick up where I left off before the boost snafu. |
Greg_e
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2011 - 11:35 pm: |
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I think you need a small camera pointed at the motor for the next failure, I bet it looked really cool when it went. |
Xbgeorge
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2011 - 11:51 pm: |
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Sorry to see this. Don't kick yourself too much. It happens to all of us. I blew up an axle in my Jeep, because I forgot to tighten one, very important, bolt. I ruined both axle shafts, the differential, and bent the pinion shaft down about 1/2 inch. It would have taken 30 seconds to tighten it to spec.
Shit happens. Hopefully you will be back to making us jealous again soon. |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 02:35 am: |
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Ouch,looks kinda like when my front rod broke,except on a tuber your rear shock mounts off the front of motor there.Put me in the dirt!
Talk about a facepalm moment. Had one this season at El Mirage when line to boost controller developed a hole,hidden well, and was not controlling boost---not sure how much over 30psi it saw but took out a piston and set of cylinders and the head! |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 10:26 am: |
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You CAN get a pre-08 engine, an 08+ flywheel/rod set, Carillo rods, lighter pistons, do the mods to make a less delicate engine. About $5K to get a strong engine (trust me, if you don't own a machine shop, that's about what you'll have in it when you are READY to start the rest of your engine work)
These engines just won't tolerate that much grunt.
You GOTTA be ready to spend the money (time and blood) if you feel the need to put this much oomph into the motor. |
Ericz
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 11:31 am: |
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I mentioned earlier that I plan to go big bore if the bottom end self destructed but, after experiencing the power on the road and only for one short acceleration run, I don't think I need any more power at this time I think my plan includes a 2006 or 2007 used motor ($1000) as they have just a few little bosses that my 2005 case did not, like a tapped hole to firmly mount the oil return and vent lines near the top of the belt/chain line above the front sprocket. I also like the idea of getting a trans assembly with the helical cut gears. I know that a 2008 crank assembled and balanced with Carrillo rods will run about $1500 including the machine work to the case. I hope that my heads didn't suffer any damage, but it is likely that my pistons are no good. So another $500 for pistons and about $200 for gaskets and cylinder boring (new cylinders with CP pistons) so a good round number of $3500 should cover what I need to invest to put it back on the road with good components.
Steve, when you quote $5k, what else are you adding in?
It will be a LONG time before I can afford this rebuild but it will be worth it. I am trying to find all of the side work I can to help afford this build, and I just might start working the local corner, too |
Kdogshirow
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 11:43 am: |
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Keep your chin up Ericz .
I saw 2 or 3 complete motors on Ebay , plus cases , cranks , etc . |
Fast1075
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 11:46 am: |
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I need my bike tuned...maybe I can find the time to come to G'ville...I'm about 125 miles away... somebody on E-bay is parting out an 08 or 09 1200 motor..the parts are cheap. |
Ericz
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 12:21 pm: |
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After only a few bad words I was laughing at the hole in the motor. I am naturally a happy-go-lucky guy and something like this doesn't really change that.
So I just had a thought and I'm not real sure if it would work. Could I buy a 2008- complete motor and swap everything in the cam galley including the cover to get the 08 crank/cases/trans to work with my DDFI-II. If my heads are good I could swap those over or just do some port work on the 08 heads and use the 08 intake flanges with my 05 throttle body. This sounds like it would work if none of the oil ports were changed.
Another approach would be to change completely to DDFI-III but then I would have to start all over experimenting with the MAP sensor install. Hmmm, keeping the DDFI-II sounds better. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 08:58 pm: |
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Something to think about
Older motor, bigger (08+) flywheels. DDFI2 is what works for race bike
You get cam position for timing (not flywheels) - so you can really lighten flywheels if you want throttle response (might NOT be your case but for a road racing bike, throttle response is MAGNIFICENT with almost 3 pounds out of the flywheels)
Don't know if it'd work to start with an 08 and work "back" to develop a way to "read" timing from cam position.
Interesting problem though. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 09:03 pm: |
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$5K is about the costs for non-ebay parts and machining:
CP Pistons
Carillo Rods
Flywheels
Case spigot bore for 3 13/16
Lightening/balancing with CP pistons
Bottom end boring/machining: Beefing up bottom end bearings to accept larger bearings.
Bearings and bearing installation.
If I recall, suggested retail was close to $5 large.
I'm going to be doing almost exactly that on the XB12 motor I've got on the bench. |
Greg_e
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 09:24 pm: |
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What did you do to get MAP on the DDFI2? That's not a normal input line on the connectors so if you are willing to share some details that would be great! I'd like to do a ram air on my 9R, not expecting much but there should be a little improvement. It has on 03 ECM installed so that might also hinder things. |
Panhead_dan
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 09:29 pm: |
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Ericz,
In your pics of the crankcase damage, there is a mark in the case on the primary side near the damage. What caused that? As a carpenter, I KNOW what it looks like.... |
Terrys1980
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 - 10:13 pm: |
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Greg - the MAP is pretty similar to the baro sensor. Its for pressure compensation. See pages 68-72 of the ECMSpy Tuning Guide V2. It connects to ECM pin 9, which is usually the active muffler feedback.
You can find the 1125 baro sensor for pretty cheap on flea-bay.
(Message edited by terrys1980 on January 12, 2011) |
Kdogshirow
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2011 - 12:06 am: |
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Ericz , I am curious to see what exactly the damage inside the motor is , other than the obvious hole in the case . It seems like your cylinders and heads would be OK , unless the piston hit a valve when everything let go .
When you tear it down , post some pics .  |
Greg_e
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2011 - 01:10 am: |
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Cool! Thanks. I'll have to read up on it and have to think about cutting the fairing next to the headlights to build a manifold. Even if I can get the intake to nearly zero vacuum at full throttle it would be an improvement over stock and should add more than a couple horsepower at speed. And since I have a 9 the muffler control is spare so I don't even need to chop things too badly. |
Ericz
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2011 - 09:03 am: |
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Steve, I'm going to keep with the 3.5" bore since the power I have already is more than I need. If I went to a 3.8125" bore the power would be just to extreme for me right now That should also keep the cost of the build down. I can retain stock cylinders and no case boring. I just looked at a 2010 XB12 motor I have at the house(not mine) and there would be other work to swap over pre 2008 cams/oil pump/cam cover because the oil pump holes are not machined into the case. That would require a pretty well thought out machining operation and fixture to get the oil pump to line up correctly with the crank. So now the plan is 06/07 cases and 08- crank. I am not so sure that a much lighter crankshaft would be the best thing but maybe a little weight taken off wouldn't hurt. I think I'm going to have Nrhs do the case/crank work and I will ask their opinion on the crank situation.
Dan, the wear on the front of the primary side of the engine case is from a -6AN stainless oil drain line that came from the old turbo setup. It didn't take long to rub some of the aluminum away before I insulated it. One of the small imperfections on the bike that most would never see but I hate to see. But now that a new case will be replacing that one, I won't have to think about it anymore
Kevin, I am looking forward to tearing the engine down to see what other damage exists. I am hoping that the heads/valves were not hurt by the pistons. I am also praying that my pistons are in good shape. That would save me about $500 in the rebuild! |
Sifo
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2011 - 09:23 pm: |
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It seems like your cylinders and heads would be OK , unless the piston hit a valve when everything let go .
When I did that to a Chevy small block the pistons looked fine from the top, other than pair of them being turned 90 degrees from all the others. The bottom side was destroyed. Skirts gone, wrist pins deformed. I would be surprised if the lower part of the cylinders survived being pummeled with the remains of the severed connecting rod.
I can still vividly remember pulling over and looking under my car and thinking to myself "what would make oil and antifreeze pour out of the side of the oil pan".  |
Kdogshirow
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2011 - 01:06 am: |
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Thats true............ |
Cvc
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2011 - 08:32 pm: |
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Sorry I cant help with your parts search but I am working on a blast and could use the cams and front head if usable maybe help offset some of the cost. by the way what turbo were you using? |
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