| Author | Message | ||
     Mikep |
1. In my humble opinion, I believe the XB12 stock dual mode muffler works very well. 2. I was wondering how many of us agree or not? 3. Installed on a 12, which aftermarket mufflers or exhaust systems provide documented improvements in HP&T, and how much improvement? mikeyp | ||
| M1combat |
The Drummer improves across the board if the Dyno's are to be believed (and I think they are). It looked to me like if you only want the power it's NOT worth it but I hear (via sound clip) that it sounds VERY freakin' cool. As I recall it's a 2-3 or 3-4 HP improvement across the range. The Jardine looks like the only other good choice for a 12. As I recall it was the same at the low end as stock but got a little higher than the Drummer at the top. I agree with you though, it seems like the stock 12 pipe works very well but I NEED the Drummer sound. | ||
| Daves |
I like the race muffler I have on my demo(not loud enough for me). I love the D+D sound. The Drummer is a good choice too. I haven't had any around with the Jardine on but it looks OK. There are plenty of choices. Ride to the edge! Dave daves@h-dappleton.com | ||
| Bads1 |
Mikep it sounds like you are at a point just like I was.You want a pipe but your not gonna do it unless its in no doubt,it will perform just as well or better then stock.Well this is where I'm at with it.The pipes mentioned above are all good but some are better in certain areas and lack in another slightly.The Drummer didn't hurt the 12's performance in any area through the RPM's.But still managed to give a few HP to boot and the dyno shows a real smooth curve.I like the Drummer myself but I doubt seat of the pants you'd be able to tell any of the above apart on a properly set up bike. | ||
| Henrik |
Which pipe would give the best midrange (take out the dip) and make the *least* amount of noise - for an XB9R? Henrik | ||
| Bads1 |
Drummer would be your choice Henrik. | ||
| M1combat |
I would say the Drummer for that as well. That's exactly what I'm going for. | ||
| Henrik |
Thank you. Drummer it is. Henrik | ||
| Mikep |
Sounds like the Drummer, D&D, and maybe the Jardine are good choices. Who out there actually installed one of these and ran dyno? mikeyp | ||
| Reepicheep |
Somebody sent me an MP3 of the drummer, can't comment on overall volume, but I don't think I have ever heard a prettier exhaust note. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
 drummer on a 12 done indepently at waterloo... not us. so there ya go.  jardine ona 12. basically same topend numbers and diffent lowend. hope this helps. I don't have a dyno of a D&D on a 12 but its topend , If like on the 9's would be lower than both the drummer and jardine and its mid range would probably be a little better than those 2 and it's low end would be similar to the jardine. I know it sounds like I am guessing but I am not, just experience. buy what you want | ||
| Hogs |
with regards to those charts..IS it just me or what? I can`t make out anything on thoses drummer charts all out of focus could you post the rpms ,lows the mids and the highs??? thanks | ||
| M1combat |
Well, It's a bit murky, but it looks from those curves that the Jardine would edge out the Drummer a tad... However, who knows how massaged that dyno is or what technique was used. I say just look at the curve and not the numbers themselves. Oh WAIT!!! I've been looking at that stupid Jardine chart wrong since the first time I saw it... Screw the Jardine... Look how it falls off at the low end. I really wish we could get someone like Englishman to get all the pipes and dyno all of them in one day. My money is still on the Drummer though. | ||
| M1combat |
Frankly though, I still want a Dyno with a race ECM with the damn valve working on a stock 12 pipe. I still think that maybe the stock ECM with a PCIII or techlusion and the stock pipe will be the best combo. Maybe slight mods to the stock pipe but I can't see how the butterfly valve being removed is a better choice than generating a fuel map that works WITH the valve. I would like it to be louder though... edited by M1combat on June 10, 2004 | ||
| Mikep |
Great Info! There is power to be had. I'd like a LIGHT WEIGHT stock 12 muffler with valve or a light weight Drummer. There is ~1 h.p. to be had for a 10 lb weight reduction. My stock XB9 muffler weighs 14.2 lbs. mikeyp | ||
| Lightisright |
I like what M1 says. Roadracingworld did a ride of the XB12 and dyno'd it. BIG hole in the middle and they said they later found the valve to be stuck open all the time, didn't have a chance to re-run the bike after fixing. Clearly the valve makes a huge difference | ||
| Hogs |
JArdine for all purposes is another great muffler, as the D&D exhaust , both sound like BAd ••• and we can`t leave out the Drummer, personaly I like the HArley Sound of either the D&D, Jardine is great as well ,the drummer a little to quiet for myself..but thats just meeeeeeee...POwer is rather close for all 3 | ||
| Bads1 |
Mikep your stock 9 muffler after you'd convert to a Drummer would weigh ummmm around 9 lbs. not bad.As far as that valve well Buell had to meet some EPA regulations for sound as well still have a good performing muffler.So if you cork it all up to quiet it down then it won't perform but put the valve in it then she works for the EPA and performs. | ||
| M1combat |
That's what I'm saying Dana, it's like having two exhaust systems. I think that they should have programmed it to be open at idle though so it would have a better sounding idle. I just think that a PCIII with the valve would give the best performance because you have a low and high RPM pipe in the same tube. All it needs is more fuel. | ||
| Lightisright |
I thought the valve was open at idle and high rpm, just closed in the middle. EPA noise is one reason but what about the anti-reversion effects? | ||
| Bads1 |
Valve is closed at idle and open when really give'n her. | ||
| M1combat |
I think it's more for performance but not peak performance. More for smooth power delivery. You can hear it open in the exhaust note. Of course, it does have the "added" benefit of helping with noise emissions. edited by M1combat on June 10, 2004 | ||
| Buckinfubba |
M1 ...you kill me....oh wait I've been looking at it all wrong.haha glad you finally saw that huge dip. HOGS it is murky but.....all that matters is that the lines on the drummer dyno are smooth all the way across and they are the top lines the stock is the lower line. and yes if the race ecm woulda worked the valve on a 12 muffler , I would stay with that pipe but....it don't so do what ya gotta do | ||
| M1combat |
So... why not a techlusion and a stock ECM? That would give more fuel AND the "best of both worlds" exhaust. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
because that dip ain't from lack of fuel...its from too much fuel . | ||
| Junkdad |
And so still being a bit confused here... Which muf gives the Harley sound without compromising performance??? D&D? And then next question, which of the sponsors has it on there shelf/web site ? | ||
| Hogs |
JUnkdad I think you are or would be happy with all of the above , Any hole in any curve wd. not be notice unless you putt around at 3000 rpms or less .. d&D , Jardine or Drummer all fine.. No really difference in power that I can see.. sound wd. be loudest in this order D&D , Jardine, Drummer, correct me if I`m wrong all... | ||
| Opto |
If you're into tight winding mountain roads then you'll want all the bottom end and top end you can get to save time changing gears - choose the muf according to the intended app. and enjoy the sound as well. | ||
| M1combat |
I regularly ride under 3K while I'm cruising and about 4K or so when I'm running corners. For me, it's the Drummer and after a rebuild a Becin. I DO wish the D&D wasn't soo expensive but even so, I think it looses on the bottom end to the Drummer and would probably still get the drummer. |
