| Author | Message | ||
     Chingo3000 |
Woke up this morning and went for a ride... things were going well. normal riding, nothing abusive. stopped to grab a drink 50 miles into the ride and she now decides to run like crap... started and idled with no problem. tried to pull into traffic and had NO POWER, nearly stalling. she didnt even want to get out of her own way. the only way to get moving was to rev up to 3.5k ish and work the clutch.... even then it would bog down. intitially it felt like dragging brakes. Quickly ruled that out with a clutch squeeze at speed. regardless, i had to ride home. we took it slow and easy. it took about 10 miles and the check engine light came on. running so rough that mirrors were pointless, but making it. I'm aware of spark-skip and that the CEL should flash. CEL is constant on. I finally make it home and notice that my fan didnt't come on... I had to park her and hit the road for niece's birthday so troubleshooting will have to wait until tomorrow. I brought my owners and service manual with me but am being anti-social trying to find a solution. Reading & searching i've learned to jump pins 1&2 on the diagnostic connector and thats about it. I have to get social and help drink the beer. hopefully when i'm able to spend some time on her, ya'll could have spread your knowledge and i can be back on the road asap! Thanks in advance. It's a 2009 XB12R, completely stock. almost 5k miles. | ||
| Aptbldr |
Check ignition: wires, connectors, spark-plug condition, etc. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Loose plug? Plugs would be my first thing to check. Specifically the rear one because the CEL is being triggered. (Sensors are on the rear. If it ran like this without the CEL, I'd concentrate on the front.) | ||
| Chingo3000 |
Definately seems to be the rear plug, cylinder is not getting hot. my tools are at work so looks like i have to wait another day. supposed to rain all week anyways. thanks for the tips guys. | ||
| Chingo3000 |
Finally able to spend a good day working on the bike. Please pardon my ignorance on this, but I need help determining if my plugs are fouled... I'm an Army mechanic and NEVER deal with spark plugs, everything is JP8/Diesel. Hopefully the pic i'm trying to upload works. The LEFT plug is from the REAR. My best educated guess would be NO. I'd think they would look worse if one of them were fouled. Although, the difference between them raises question. Is this possibly due to limping her 50 miles home on the front cylinder (right one) Either way regardless, I picked up a set of NGK Iridium (DCPR9EIX) and will be installing them as soon as this is posted.  | ||
| Sifo |
The one on the right is badly fouled. That may be your whole problem or simply a symptom of other issues. If it runs like it's old self you are probably golden. P.S. Use some anti-seize when installing new plugs. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
The basic rule for plugs is: if it was toast, would you eat it? I'm agreeing with Sifo here. The one on the right looks like it would be a problem. However, the one on the left looks like it's been running a bit too hot. Looking at the left tip, at about 10 o'clock, it seems almost like some material has melted. Changing plugs is good. What gas are you using? I'd suggest the highest octane you can get. See how that works for you. Also, while everything is still cool to touch, check the exhaust connections, especially the left. | ||
| Obiewan |
I agree with Sifo and Iamarchangel, looks like it could be running hot(lean) on that cylinder. | ||
| Chingo3000 |
UPDATE!!! Thanks for the response guys... She's definately not feeling well. Properly gapped (.035) reassemble everything and prepare to ride. Left off the air cleaner shell... just wanted to here her breath a bit louder, sounded pretty cool. The first 3 miles are gentle 25-30mph out of my community. Got onto highway and smoothly eased up to 55-60. We made it 2 miles and died! UUGGHH not to happy with this. Damn lucky me, 15 minutes later, my neighbor happens to drive by on his way to walmart to buy soda and back home, with his trailer hooked up! Talk about dumb luck! He's gonna help me drink beer a little later as payment. The process of dying is like i let go of the throttle. Tried to downshift and build rpm but still dying. Squeezed the clutch and gave it some wrist. She let out a horrible cough sound, roughly fired a few more times and dead. I was at least able to coast into a realtor parking lot with no pushing. While sitting there I tried to restart. Cranked fine, tried to fire but coughed and just wasn't having it. It was only 5 miles but the engine felt hot. No fan again either. Both cylinders felt equally hot as far as I could tell. When we got home, almost cooled down she started and idled, but pretty rough and kept fluctuating +/- 250rpm. I know supposed to heat up before shutting down, but not wise right now. Here's a pic from the new Iridium's with 5 MILES on them.  The front cylinder (right one) is obviously having some issues again. I think it looks most like the #2 example from the service manual. Sooty black deposits. Sounds like a sensor of some sort has gone bad and throwing the ecm off maybe? Where should i start looking at resolving this. I'm mechanically inclined and have tools to do whatever needs to be done and. No ECMspy or diagnostic equipment or than a multimeter. Being a mechanic, I denied the warranty, so I'd rather avoid a trip to the dealer. Please help?! In the mean time she's at 4,964 miles. Good time to do the 5k service and drink the beer. I'm regularly checking for responses. - Battery is 12.7 - Fuses are all good - No CEL Thanks for your help guys, Jon | ||
| Sifo |
I would give the ignition system a good check. Plug wires sometimes rub through from touching the frame, check for that. Make sure the cables are seated correctly at the coil and on the plug. It could be the coil going bad. I'd have to check the manual for procedures for checking the coil. I'm not sure that a bad sensor would have such a bad effect only on the front cylinder. Did the '09 models have a front O2 sensor? That might be about the only one I can think of that would be cylinder specific, and I know the older ones only had a single sensor. Good luck on getting to the bottom of this quickly. | ||
| Luv2spd |
I agree with Sifo, I believe the Firebolt only has one O2 sensor for both cylinders, so both spark plugs should look the same if it is a sensor malfunction. It must be an electrical cable issue somewhere, for last resort if you can't find the problem, you can always pick up a new spark plug wire from american sportbike: http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/17146.html. Or if you have time change the front and rear park plug cable and see if it is the spark plug cable issue, but then you would have to take the spark plugs out to inspect again which is very time consuming. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
The different air mixes per cylinder is confusing. Sifo's advice is simplest and cheapest to try. If one cable or coil is failing, it will show in that cylinder's plug. Inconsistent spark will show a foul like what we see here. It also seems to be heat related although the second one was quicker than the first. Try this: put everything back together. It should start. Go for a ride around the block a couple of times. Not too far because I think it will fail again. Let it cool right down (so you can safely touch the headers). It should start again. Old school: the choke is staying on. New school: the Fuel Enrichment Circuit is staying on. The FEC is a combination of the Engine Temp sensor and the O2 sensor and the ECM. It sounds like the O2 is not recognizing when the temp has reached normal operating temperature. | ||
| Sifo |
I've looked at my '06 manual for procedures for testing the coils. I would imagine it would be the same on the '09. They start with coil removal. Sounds easy in the manual, I'm not sure how easy real world access is. There's 2 resistance tests you can make with a OHMs meter. First test the primary circuit. Where the wiring harness plugs into the coil there are 3 terminals. You want to measure the resistance between the center terminal and the outer terminals. Set the ohmmeter scale to R x 1. Each one should be between 0.5-0.7 ohms. Then test the secondary circuit. For this you want to test from the same center terminal to the spark plug terminals. Set the ohmmeter scale to R x 1K. Each one should measure between 5.5-7.5K ohms. Failure on any of these measurements requires coil replacement. Their alternate test is "Coil Substitution". Basically throwing parts at it. I would try to eliminate everything you can think of before just throwing parts at it. That would include swapping plug wires as Luv2spd suggested. You could also do the old school method of cranking the engine with a spark plug grounded to the engine and just look for the spark. This is a very unreliable test though. You can still have a visible spark that will fail under the high pressure of the combustion chamber. While it looks like an ignition problem to me at this point, it's easy to be misled. I hope you keep us informed when it gets solved. | ||
| Chingo3000 |
Got her all back together late late last night. Drank many beers and got to know my bike. I learned ALOT from my service manual. While reading and checking things you all advised, I also did a good 5k service.  Exhaust cable was way out of adjustment, clutch and primary got adjusted a little. Also switched to Lucas Synthetic. I tested the plug wires, which were good. Cleaned the start of fouling on new plugs. Thoroughly inspected all wiring for anything out of place. As I put the plugs in, I was very careful about ensuring good secure connections. Pushed her out of the garage and fired right up. I let it work through a little bit on its own. She settled into a nice idle for about 5 minutes. Both cyclinders heating evenly, so cruised very very locally in the neighborhood for a good half hour. Had to adjust clutch more, but running nicely. Let it cool completely down and get ready to go for a ride. I've learned the best rides are when you just go where your compass points you. I drove 27 miles to get a redbox movie. Good way to relax on a Sunday. SHE RAN LIKE A CHAMP!!! Everything felt nice and tight. What I believe happened is I fouled an OEM plugs on a ride. Had to ride/limp the bike 50 miles home on 1 cylinder. When I installed the new plugs one of them must not have had a secure connection maybe? Now that all is assembled and adjusted, she's just feeling better and ready to keep riding! I really appreciate y'alls help. I knew I wouldn't need a Warranty!  | ||
| Sifo |
Good to hear. I hope it stays fixed. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Another possibility is that all the moving around relocated a problem wire. Give your front spark plug wire cable another look over, looking for any wear marks. Anyway, good it's going again. |
