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Geoffg
| | Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 02:46 pm: | 
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Guys, I'm getting lots of good info here. Thanks.
Austinrider, my dealer mentioned the carbon fiber frame sliders--you got a pic by any chance?
Of course, they also tried to sell me on the race kit--but I figured I could leave that for a year or so.
Coldwthrrider, about your demo rides--I first rode the Buells in the spring of 2003, and was at first sold on the Lightning because the riding position was so much more comfortable (which kinda annoyed me, because the Firebolt was the bike I thought I'd love). However, just a few weeks ago I was at a different dealership "just looking," and the salesman asked me if I wanted to take the Firebolt for a ride. Of course, I said yes--but their 9R wasn't ready, so he gave me the 12R to ride. Once up to speed (something you never get to experience on formal demo rides), the Firebolt came into it's own and was much more comfortable--now I'm back on track with it!
Along these lines, though, I would like it if the clip-ons were maybe an inch higher--anyone got any ideas?
Y'know, I've read a lot here about the "emotional draw" here, and I'm glad you guys can relate to that. The Buell seems to have some character--unlike my buddy's FZ1 I rode last year, which does everything flawlessly but has no soul at all. Since I ride for fun, I'm definitely drawn to the whole experience--maybe this is part of what draws the cruiser guys to riding? (I am just not a cruiser guy, although I recently demo'd a Victory Vegas and had a great time). |
Coldwthrrider
| | Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 03:10 pm: |
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Wow, thanks for the great info so fast XB9er. The airbox idea is good. I have not yet heard a race-kitted 9R but I'd like a little more bark than the stock 9R exhaust. Would the airbox mod and a pipe be sort of a "poor man's" race kit for a little more oomph and sound? Also, with this TPS reset, is the bike rideable without it? I assume if I install the kit myself I'll need to get it to the dealer for the reset. Does it just run like crap or does it not run at all? I don't have a truck to haul bikes, I just ride them everywhere.
Sorry if I seem a little over-analytical, but like Geoffg I'm an engineer and that's just the way I am. I never considered Buell before the XB models came out. But now, I honestly fell in love with the XB12R when I rode it (because the suspension on the 9 was not setup well, but technically they're the same right?). I've never felt a bike like that before, and ever since I've been drooling over it whenever I see pics on my desktop or screensaver. Even worse is every time I ride my bike I think of how much fun the XB was. To me the SV is ugly, utilitarian, and cheap but it's a nice bike (a few friends have them and tell me how great they are, but are also talking about other bikes...) sort of like the one I have.
Geoffg, if you get one please let us know. I'm still a month or more from a purchase, need to sell the Suzuki first to fund the new bike.
ColdWeatherRider |
Flick
| | Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 03:20 pm: |
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Geoffg, buy the Buell. Our circumstances are somewhat similar. I agonized over purchasing my XB9S for about three weeks after taking the demo ride. Of course, I instantly loved the thing, but financing proved a little difficult. Got that out of the way, and have never looked back. Frankly, there is no other bike out there that I would want! We take our summer holidays in B.C., camping in Silverton every summer (have done for 15+ years now). The Creston to Balfour ferry, Fauquier ferry to Cherryville, Kaslo to New Denver, etc., etc...we live for these roads all year! Man, I envy you living around there! I have ridden / owned almost every brand of motorcycle out there, and wouldn't trade the Buell for any of them! I have ridden an SV650 (my son bought one for his wife...she didn't ride it much, so he sold it), and find it underpowered and sluggish (i.e. does not turn as quickly) compared to the 9S, not to mention a fairly long reach to the bars. Sorry, but I think it's underwhelming! Sure, a lot of guys/gals are racing them, because they are inexpensive to purchase. If you are going to race, why not buy a cheaper bike to throw down the road. I don't take things like that into consideration when I purchase a street bike, although I still may take the Buell to Calgary for a track day.
I have had occasion to drop in to the dealership in Kamloops. Seems ok, but definitely slanted towards HD sales/service. I was looking for a new rear tire, they had nothing in stock. Although, upon checking with the Japanese dealer in the same parking lot, discovered he didn't have the tire either (?). But, then again, I needed to know which roads were still open in BC (summer last year...all the forest fires!), and the HD dealership hooked me up to the internet to check out BC highways.
I have both ridden to BC (twice) and trucked the Buell out (the only motorcycle in the world that fits in the back of a Dodge Ram shortbox with the tailgate UP!!!!!). I do not have any issues as far as touring goes, I just stuff the tankbag, sling on the back pack and head for the hills!
For sure if you buy the Buell, stop by the bagel shop in Nakusp some afternoon...we may be there having a coffee. I don't see any Buells out there when I'm on holidays for some strange reason (?). Funny, the best turning bike on the planet on some of the best twisties on the planet, and little old me out there...alone on my XB9S. |
Coldwthrrider
| | Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 03:24 pm: |
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Easyflier: good suggestion on insurance. I actually checked on that recently and it's about the same. Liability for the SV is the same as my bike and the Buell is $6 more per year. For full coverage it would be about $100 more per year for the XB over the SV. That's not enough to sway my decision, especially because I'll probably sticking with liability. |
Ingemar
| | Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 03:31 pm: |
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what all the others have said already!
Get the Buell. You'll be happier.
Service is not a point. They are reliable (YES!) and they are easy to maintain unless you're really LEFT HANDED.
Then talk to Brian or Kevin 'bout a drummer ...  |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 03:46 pm: |
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If it were me (and it probably will be before long) I would probably go with an XB9s and a drummer rather then the race exhaust.
Better through the middle, about the same around the top. Not sure if the race ECM is necessary with the Drummer or not, that's a question for a different thread.
I watched for a while. If you are patient and persistent, you should be able to score a used XB9 for $6000-6500, a new one for $7900 or so, but at the cost of time, location, and convenience.
If power really matters to you, it's hard to imagine that a well tuned XB12 is not enough for street use. Thats like an honest 100hp or so at the rear... thats a lot for that bike on the street. Also, a used XB9, and $4000 to CycleRama or NHRS, would get you one HELL of an XB (think XB88). Far more bike then $10,000 out the door would get you anywhere else (IMHO).
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Benm2
| | Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 04:43 pm: |
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1. Will you ever get the opportunity to meet Mr. Suzuki? Or Mr. Ducati? With a little travel, you can meet Mr. Buell...
2. Somewhere on the Buell, there will be a small sticker that says "MADE IN USA"
3. Not even an unmuffled Ducati sounds as good as a Buell @ 7500rpm
4. If you decide to race it, you can call someone AT THE FACTORY who will give you all the setup advice you ask for.
I commuted on my M2 for about 2 years, before it became off-road-only. I spent $5 per week in gas. I had overheating issues, but the new XB's address that. |
Darthane
| | Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 05:17 pm: |
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ColdWeather - the TPS reset will only be required if you change ECMs. Adding the airbox cover, K&N, and a pipe will not necessitate a TPS reset.
The Drummer works just fine with the stock ECMs, but I seem to recall Bubba recommending the Race ECM for a little more bang. The 'Drummer Kit' would be a bit more expensive than the Buell Race Kit, but the Drummer is the muffler of choice for XBs at the moment.
I've got a '03 XB9R that's bulletproof, makes more power than I can use, and isn't too insane to insure, even for a 23 year old. The 12s don't make enough more power to make me lust after one - maybe for a next bike, but I'll definitely not be turning in my 'bolt on one.
FWIW, the most I've spent on routine maintenance parts for any service interval (I've hit every major one) was ~$200, plus a few hours of my time at most to complete the work. After doing minor work on a friend's Kawasaki, I never want to touch one of those buggered things again. |
Buellgator
| | Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 05:41 pm: |
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Actually I think that the drummer with the race ecm and K&N would be cheaper than the factory kit.
If you core out your stock muffler to them. |
Aydenxb9
| | Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 07:01 pm: |
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Ditto what everyone else has said here!
Again, go with the Buell and you'll never look back. I like you looked at many of the same bikes and a few more but the Buell was the only one that had any soul to it. I've had mine for nearly a year now and have to admit I've not been overly kind to it and it just can't be killed. It damn near totaled a Neon and only did $200 damage to the bike. Low sided it while being more aggressive than one should be during planting season on country roads and the frame held up beautifully. Little bondo and paint, good as new!
As far as up grades, I went the Drummer route and I love it! Also did the race ECM, air filter, and XB12 air box. Runs great!
The only other consideration you might consider is this: Think about tires real soon after buying one. The D207's that come on the bike are very soft and have very little rubber on the tread surface. Add to that they're expensive. Many on this board have gone to different brands with good results. Other than that, it's reliable, powerful, and more fun than should be allowed by law! I smile big EVERY TIME I ride mine. As I have said before, it has changed my life-I LOVE MY BUELL!!!!!! |
M1combat
| | Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 07:10 pm: |
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Yeah, the tires is a good point. I didn't mind the old tires but as soon as I put on the Metzeler Sportec's it got a lot better. I hear that the Pirelli Diablo's are just as good. |
Gonen60
| | Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 07:16 pm: |
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I was just at a stop light in my car, and there was a sv650 beside me. The sound it makes has no soul or balls. sounded tinty
Just an observation. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 12:48 am: |
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The SVs at the track sound great. Stock mufflers suck no matter what bike they are on. |
Pghrider
| | Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 11:11 pm: |
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I can't believe all the crap everyone is talking about the sv. My next bike will probably be a 12r, because I want to put the sv on the track, next year or so but right now I have a sv, and as for sound with a jardine race exhaust on it, it is one of the best sounds around. also the top speed on my 650 is very similar to the buells I have hit an indicated 140mph which is prob. an 130 actual. The only knock on the sv is the suspension which is easily fixed for less than $1k. I have already done the forks for around $200 and will install a new shock when it goes on the track. The main reason I like the buells is the size. I am short and the Sv is ok on the street but the buell fits me alot better for street riding, I also like the torque of a v-twin.
edited by pghrider on May 23, 2004 |
Aydenxb9
| | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 03:50 am: |
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I don't see anyone knocking the SV here other than it doesn't offer that extra something, I call it soul, that the Buell does. The suspension on the SV needs help if you're planning on being aggressive with it. It's a good bike, heck, they're all good bikes. It's a great time for motorcycles. |
Pghrider
| | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 11:53 pm: |
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By talking crap I mean on SV's I mean calling them cheap and no soul as you say. There is a loyal following out there for the sv. Check out www.svrider.com to see that the sv'ers are just as rabid about their bikes as buell owners are, and believe me you guys/girls have dealt with a lot of stuff from the begining. Buell's rep is pretty bad in the publics eye but I think the XB's might change that if they would get more good press, the moto mags keep comparing them to literbikes which they are not ment to compete with, that makes it unfair to buell. I have wanted a buell for quite a few years but the cost and the horror stories have held me back. Next year my wife graduates from grad school so I will be able to justify 10k for a new bike. My sv I got used for $4k when it was 3yrs old with only 4k miles on it, you just can't find a deal on buells like that. Also I have to find a dealer that will be good to deal with, I have stopped in quite a few HD dealerships and came away with the impression that they only sold buells because harley made them which makes a poor dealer in my mind, and I would wonder what kind of service I would recieve from them. But I really want a new XB12r. |
Opto
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 08:08 am: |
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Pg, sounds like you're switched on and know what you want. Recent (only) track day on the XB12, the guy on the SV1000 was quickest of the jap V-twin bikes (we were all street registered bikes), if it's any help the XB was no slower or faster down the short straight (2nd through 4th flat chat) than any of the four different late model 1000cc jap V-twins. |
Pghrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 11:00 am: |
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Do you guys notice any downsides to only having 5 vs. 6 gears, it seems to me the XB should have a faster top speed. I know you need less gears with a high torque motor but is 5th tall enough in your opinions. |
Geoffg
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 12:17 pm: |
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Not owning one, it's hard to say, but I've read here that a lot of Buell owners seem to wish for one higher gear. Myself, I cruise around 70 mph, seems that 5th should do OK.
I get to ride an SV for the first time this weekend (demo ride). They have a great reputation, and indeed would be a more practical purchase for me. However, I've ridden Buells on more than one occasion, and have yet to ride an SV--that says something right there about dealerships (the Japanese bike dealerships seem universally opposed to test riding, some of them won't even allow tests of used bikes...).
The Buell speaks to me in a way no Japanese bike has to date (except maybe the Honda VTR 1000)--maybe this weekend's test ride will change that. But, why are the SV's physically larger than the XB's, even the 650? And the current angular styling does nothing for me. Hmmm. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 12:42 pm: |
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As far as the sixth gear goes I want one but not really for more speed. I'd like to be able to cruise at 80 at about 2500-3000 RPM's. Quite frankly though I could just re-gear fifth and be just as happy. I rarely spend any "fun" time above third anyway (third will do ~100 just into the yellow line).
With regards to size... Well, it's a design philosophy that seems to work very well.
Check the other "wannabe XB" thread. I think it's called "I'd like an XB, but...". I posted some reviews there. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 01:12 pm: |
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pghrider... I am one of the ones giving people the heads up on thinking about the SV's... I am really not trying to slam it, in fact it is exactly the opposite.
I have told two close friends who were getting into motorcycling to go buy the SV-650. One bought a ZR-7 (my second choice) instead, and since told me he wished he had the SV. The second went right out and bought it like I told him, and has gotten good use out of the bike.
However, the guy that bought the SV is now looking hard for his next bike... the guy that bought the ZR7 is as well, and would probably still be looking to upgrade, even if he got the SV. My neighbor (yet another SV) rode the hell out of it for a year, and traded up to a BMW 1150 GS. A buddy of mine in Germany rode his SV for two years, then bought himself a Raptor and gave the SV to his wife. Again, this is not to say the SV is anything but a fantastic motorcycle with tremendous bang for the buck.
What it *DOES* say, is that when choosing a motorcycle, very few are ultimately satisfied with choosing based on bang for the buck. I am just beginning to intuitively understand this. I try to communicate this to people looking at the SV, not to try and keep them from buying one, but to make sure it will accomplish the goals they want to accomplish... to actually encourage them to buy it.
Probably the one thing I might suggest is that they should buy a used SV... to just use and resell later, as opposed to a brand spanking new one that they can baby and protect from cradle to grave. They should go ahead and get the SV, but make sure they have a decent exit strategy two years down the road.
As for deals, I was looking for a new bike in Feb of 2001. For $5000, I could buy a used SV, about the best deal I could find at that time, but for $5200, I scored a 2000 Cyclone with 3000 miles on it.
Right now, I would bet a lightly used SV goes for around $3500 or so, but I am not sure. I keep seeing used S1's going around here for $4000 something. Even given the reliability nightmare that the S1's could be (based on my experience with the Cyclone), I would take the S1 in a heartbeat.
I am hopeful (as I am ***seriously*** jonesing for a yellow XB9S, but poor) that as more and more XB's are sold, the price of used XB9's keep marching down. A 3 year old used XB9s with 8k miles or so, for sale for $5000 or less, would be haunting my every thought if I saw it.
So sorry if anyone loves the SV and thinks I am slamming it, I am not, I think it's the best bang for the buck in modern motorcycling, and at least one person went right out and bought one soley on my recommendation. I just want people to really think about what they want out of a bike (*particularly a *second* bike*), and make sure they are meeting their goals.
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Coldwthrrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 02:06 pm: |
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Geoffg: Let us know how the test ride goes, I'm in the same boat. I haven't ridden an SV but at this point I'm adjusting my finances to just get the XB9R and be done with it. I don't want to buy an SV now only to sell it in 2yrs for a Buell. This will be my 4th bike, I've decided no more messing around. To your point about test rides, I think it's a matter of sales. They can't keep SV650's in stock, I asked at a local dealer last winter about 2004 models and they figured they'd all sell out by mid-May at MSRP. They were almost right....I checked recently. Look at the fact that Buell gives away a free sling bag (I got one, they're pretty nice) with a demo ride. Also notice how Victory gives away a free T-shirt with a test ride. It's just supply and demand because none of these bikes are selling as well as they should. Your best bet is to look at used SV's and try to talk the person into a test ride.
Reepicheep: Your guess for price is dead on. I almost bought a 2001 SV650S a month ago. The asking price was $3500 with 4000 miles on it. And he wasn't even firm on the price. He wouldn't let me test ride it so I wouldn't buy, having never ridden an SV. It sold within a week. The newer 2003's (new frame, better susp, fuel injection) are more like $5000 to $5500 used right now. Instead of that I'm hoping to find a 2003 XB9R for $6000-7000. |
Geoffg
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 03:33 pm: |
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Cold, I'll let you know. Like yourself, I'd prefer to just buy the Buell and get it over with--but at the moment I'm wondering if I can afford any bike at all this summer, never mind the Buell (I always feel this way after returning from the bank...).
Test rides...well, maybe--but Suzuki is the only Japanese maker to not have offered demo rides in this area, at least not in the past few years (this weekend will be a first!). Still, a demo ride is really too formal an event to really get the feel for a new bike. The Harley salesman offering me the Buell for a test ride--brand new, off the showroom floor--well, that got my attention. And look--now I'm sold (oh, yeah--I'll eventually get my Buell, be it this year or a few down the road). These more expensive bikes, I think they need to be experienced firsthand in order to set the hook. If practicality was the only reason to buy a bike, we'd all still be riding CB350's. |
Pghrider
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 10:59 pm: |
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There are alot of better deals on SV's if you know where to look I can find a 01 S model for around $3000 if I wanted it. As for outgrowing the SV,you don't, you just think you do. I will keep the SV for the track or just a second bike if finances allow for it next year. The main Reason i want an XB is that it fits my body style(vertically challenged) much better. I sat on one at the cleveland show and it fit me like a glove. Back to the outgrowing the SV, most people that buy a bigger bike think they need a bigger bike chances are they have atleast 1/2" chicken strips on the SV, also with a few selected mods a SV could last you for a long time. The only thing it doesn't have is the top speed, it will do 130 actual mph topped out stock a little more modded, which incedently is what the XB's will do. I have a older friend who rides 500 milers every weekend in WV on his older honda 1000, he also does track days on it and none of the riders around here can keep up with him on the twisties that includes riders on GSXR1000's Honda 954's ect. The funny thing is sometimes he will take his daughters ninja 500 and those same riders can't keep up with him. So my theory is its the rider not the bike also unless I am on the freeway with my riding buddies I have no problem keeping up and even staying ahead of them on the twisties. BTW anyone here live near Pittsburgh and want to ride let me know dbaumiller@verizon.net, also I want to go and test ride the XB but the closest HD dealer that sells buells doesnt have one so I have to ride a hour or so to just get a test ride.
forgot to add about the test ride thing. One of the main reasons they don't usually let you test ride one unless you plan on buying it is the amount of crashes and thefts. For example I have a friend who is the sales manager at a suzuki dealership, last summer they let a kid test ride a brand new CBR600RR. He gave them a fake drivers liscense and stole the bike, the police found it a week or so later trashed and laid down on its side on the side of a road, thats almost a $8000 loss for the dealership. I think its great that buell gives test rides its just hard to find one in stock since the dealers around here don't seem to keep alot of them in stock, also I love the 2yr warranty WTF we buy a car and it comes with a 3yr warranty why should I dish out $10k on a new bike and just get 1 yr warranty which is actually like 7-8months that we can actually ride here?
edited by pghrider on May 26, 2004 |
Coldwthrrider
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 12:05 am: |
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So last Saturday I went to a local dealer for demo day. I didn't like their structure because I couldn't ride many bikes even though I was there for a few hours. I rode a Guzzi Breva 750 and a Vstar 1100 (only because it was the only one available in that time slot). I intended on riding a Monster 800 but they couldn't find it! And of course the SV1000 was booked up all day and I didn't want to wait 3 more hours. The bottom line is, I looked at some bikes, sat on a them, revved them up, looked at the prices and said eff it. I went home, scrounged the net, called on every XB9R posted within 500 miles, and found a decent enough deal. After crunching some numbers (for the 20th time) I went for it. This Monday I put money down on it and will pick it up later this week.
This Friday I'm driving 750 miles round trip to pickup a used 2003 XB9R! I didn't even end up test riding an SV650S but at this point I don't care, I'm getting a Firebolt!
Thanks for all the info in this thread, once I get it home and licensed in my state I'll probably have lots of questions. Also, a big thanks to some great guys in Wisconsin who helped me out on this, DaveS and Dyna. Hopefully I'll have some great reviews of the bike in a week or so, to add some valuable information for the rest of the potential buyers on this forum.
CWB |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 09:09 am: |
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Congrats CWB! Fantastic!
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