| Author | Message | ||
     Thump4fun |
er...gas cap??? Not sure where you're going with that one? I could buy the plug/air filter theory, except that these plugs have only 900 miles on them while the original plugs had about 7,000 miles and both the front and rear look the same (I still have them and compared all four). I've been running the K&N filter since I had only 100 miles on the bike. As for the blueing on the pipes I'll have to look tonight. Due to the weather I didn't ride in to the office this morning. And after riding 120 miles this weekend, there's no difference in how the bike rides after changing the plugs, wires and air filter back to stock. About the only time it feels even close to normal again is running around 3500-4000 RPMs -- and even then, the stumbling is noticeable enough to feel a little uncomfortable in the curves. I did check the battery after a full night on the battery tender, and it read 13.0 with the bike off -- dead center where it should be. Cranking the bike it read around 10.5-11.0. However, without using the battery tender the past couple nights, the bike has started poorly (like a low battery), so I'm going to recheck it without trickle charging it first and see if it's low. I didn't do the whole charging system check (stator leads) because after looking at the connections they seem a bit brittle. I might just end up replacing parts at this rate...battery, then voltage regulator, and finally stator, in the hopes that it's a voltage issue. I appreciate everyone sticking with me and helping me through this. *frustrated* | ||
| Midknyte |
As for the blueing on the pipes I'll have to look tonight. Hey and to note - blueing is not a bad thing. What you want to see though, is about the same amount on each. If one is appreciably different than the other, it is an indication that one of the cylinders has an issue. | ||
| Swordsman |
I did check the battery after a full night on the battery tender, and it read 13.0 with the bike off -- dead center where it should be. Cranking the bike it read around 10.5-11.0. If you mean it continued to read that after you cranked the bike, then seems like you have the charging/low voltage issues. ~SM | ||
| Spdrxb |
This may be a long shot?I havent seen it mentioned yet. How loose is the primary chain? If it was really loose the bike "bucks and lurches" at least mine did when it was loose.(Most noticeable below 3800 RPM) BTW my bike always turns over a bit slow when its hot. Seems like starter is having a hard time, no battery voltage issues or anything. I just figured thats how they are all tight and warmed up, (compression at its peak). (Message edited by spdrxb on June 24, 2010) | ||
| Buell_41 |
gas level goes down. tank can't breathe and let air in. This creates a vaccuum... no gas to fuel pump... Enough vaccuum draw builds up and breaks the vaccuum... fuel comes back *lurch*. Kinna like pouring water out of a bottle. | ||
| Thump4fun |
Blueing is a little bit more on the front pipe, but not much. The rear goes about half the pipe while the front goes all the way to the final curve before the exhaust. Length wise and proximity to heat thought, it seems about the same to me. Here's a pic...  Primary chain - I haven't checked but the lurching doesn't feel mechanical to me. Assuming my local Harley shop has the replacement gasket in stock, I'll check it this weekend. Buell_41 - I understand the concept but not sure where to look for the real-world application on the bike. Lots of feedback at first indicated this was likely an intake leak -- but, this was presumably checked originally by the shop when they replaced the actuator. Should I recheck that myself? Are you leading to something else? | ||
| Thump4fun |
I'm frustrated and don't know where to go with this now without shotgunning parts. I checked for intake leaks myself this weekend, using propane and a long rubber hose. No perceptible change in engine idle, so assuming no intake leak. I checked wires for shorts, paying particular attention to those involved in the ECM feedback: - 02 sensor - Cylinder heat sensor - Bank sensor - Crank position sensor - TPS - Mass air sensor No loose, frayed or otherwise screwed up wiring that I could find. I found this video in the archive that shows EXACTLY what my bike is now doing. Once it's warmed up it runs a little better but the lurching/stumbling while riding doesn't go away completely. Of course, my luck is that no one posted a solution the problem (I sent the OP a message in the hopes that I'll get his solution). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB4gasNGCt4 Still crying for help here... :-( | ||
| Buelltroll |
Replace your ECM, Mine had a crack / wiggle I couldn't even see and with the stock ECM in there it's running fine. Dunno if it'll help but it couldn't hurt. | ||
| Froggy |
Thump, looking at that video I want to say its the Idle Air Control acting up. | ||
| Thump4fun |
Any way to test that theory Froggy? | ||
| Froggy |
Yea, replace it  Being that its part number P0282.5AA and $175, you will probably want the dealer to take care of it under warranty. They shouldn't give you any stink about it as you brought it in before the warranty expired for this but they didn't fix it entirely. If necessary, a quick call to HD customer service should be able to get you warranty authorization. What is happening is that the IAC isn't allowing enough air into the engine at idle and other low throttle situations, so the bike will stumble and eventually stall. This tends to happen on older cars usually due to carbon buildup, but in our case it is a defective unit. I don't know of any aftermarket ones that work. Also while it is at the dealer, have them reflash the ECM to the latest programming, that can help with the general ridabilty of the bike | ||
| Thump4fun |
Ouch - guess we're not talking about the $13 P0138.K part that my dealership just told me about when I called. I called Buell Customer Service and they created a case #, but they still couldn't tell me it would be authorized under warranty. Instead, they have to wait for the dealer to diagnose it and then determine on a case-by-case basis if it's still covered or not. I'm a little worried about taking my chances with the dealership and walking out with a $300+ bill for their labor + parts. Still considering what to do next now... btw - I already had them re-flash the ECM to the latest when it was in there the first time. | ||
| Froggy |
P0138.K is air temperature sensor thats in between the intake trumpet and air filter. | ||
| Buell_41 |
My bike runs it's best when I'm nearly out of gas. Strange I know. Ride it like normal (with the lurching). When you get home, shut it down and immediately but slowly remove cap and see if you hear an in rush of air just as the seal disconnects. If you don't my theory is toast. If you do, it could be the problem. Once the cap is put back on it might actually ride pretty good for a mile or so. Then a vacuum builds up and the lurching returns. Quick check, free and you're no worse for the wear | ||
| Glitch |
When you get home, shut it down and immediately but slowly remove cap and see if you hear an in rush of air just as the seal disconnects. Pinched vent hose? | ||
| Froggy |
That or a defective valve. | ||
| U4euh |
How about riding it with out the cap in place or pushed in all the way | ||
| Husky |
I had the same problem on my 08. I found some black grunge in the throttle body throat where the butterfly closes and in the idle air control port. Cleaned it up with cotton swabs and carb cleaner. While I was in there I removed and cleaned the tank vent line from the canister to the throttle body and blew pressurized air through the line and throttle body. I also blew through the canister and then added a small oiled K&N filter to the canister inlet. Overkill for sure but my idle problems were solved! Husky | ||
| Cataract2 |
Hey, taking a step back it was mentioned that the rubber plug on the throttle body will dry out and crack causing running problems. Mine is worn out and I taped it with some electrical tape, but think I should replace. It was mentioned you can get them from Autozone. What should I look for or where should I look there for this item that will fit? | ||
| Thump4fun |
Well, I gave up on it myself. Dropped it off at the dealership in the hope that they'll figure it out, fix it, and it will be covered under warranty since it wasn't fixed the first time. The service guy remembered me and seemed to think they'd get it done under warranty as part of the original issue. He also said the only other one they'd seen act like this needed the ECM replaced, so he thinks that's what they'll do to start with. I'll recap this all once we have a resolution in case anyone stumbles upon this (pun intended).  | ||
| Metra6924 |
I had a similar problem recently with my 2008 Uly. Rough idle and backfiring and loss of power at cruising speeds. My initial impression was a fuel delivery problem or bad gas. After 3 tanks of gas from different sources, I decided it wasn't bad gas. Battery and grounds were ok. Checked for intake leaks - that's not it either. TPS reset didn't change anything. Checked ECM connections and they were good. I pulled the plugs and they were black - rich mixture. Replaced the plugs and wires and still had the stumbling idle. It would idle fine for about a minute, then the speed would increase, then decrease then it would backfire and die, just like before and just like the video. While I was looking around I noticed the O2 sensor wire didn't seem as secure as it should be, it was just hanging loosely. There is a plastic fitting where the sensor connector fits in. This puts the connector up and away from the head and keeps the wire from being too close to the head. This is important since the O2 sensor helps control the mixture. It works by resistance and heat can change the resistance of the wire causing an improper signal to the ECM. On my bike the connector had vibrated out of the fitting. Here is my theory: with an improper signal from the O2 sensor due to increased resistance in the wire, the ECM enriches the fuel mixture to the point where the plugs load up and foul. At the same time, the richer mixture cools the exhaust causing a new reading from the O2 sensor and the ECM tries to adapt. This causes the fluctuating idle and the surging at speed. After I placed the connector into the fitting, the problem went away. A short test ride seems to show that the problem is gone. This is just my theory, I'm no expert. Check the sensor connector, it's easy and cheap. Any thoughts, comments, snide remarks? | ||
| Yamafreak |
Just checked mine it was out of the holder. | ||
| Thump4fun |
I tried different gas stations during my troubleshooting and that didn't make any difference. I also verified the O2 sensor was snug and the single wire looked good to me all along it's route. So I don't think that's my issue, but certainly a good thing to note. | ||
| Boliver |
Constant Lurching?  | ||
| Yamafreak |
 | ||
| U4euh |
Cat- You will find an assorted pack in their "Help" packages. Red packs that have the words help stamped on the front. Look for vacuum plug offs or vacuum caps. Should only be 2 or 3 bucks for the assorted pack | ||
| Thump4fun |
It's over a month later and two trips to the dealer, and I'm still getting no where with this. Here's one symptom of what the bike continues to do (taken this morning leaving for work): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkh1Ttms7jU Overview: Symptom 1 of 3 (video link shows this) - About 50% of the time bike will sputter and stall out once or twice when starting up. Will usually even out somewhat after 2-3 minutes, but still idles a bit rough. Doesn't matter if it's the first of the morning, the middle of the day, or at night. Could be sitting cold overnight or have been shut off just 20 minutes prior. 2nd symptom (most frustrating of the 3) - Original issue that continues to plague me is the bike will sputter and lurch while riding. Has been to local dealer (and a good one) twice, anticipating a third time now. Had the exhaust valve actuator replaced first time which check engine light error code indicated. No change. Next they checked grounds (all good) and thoroughly cleaned the throttle body which was very dirty with carbon build up. Reset TPS twice (once before cleaning and once after, both times dealer said it was way off) and reset the AF (air-fuel mixture?). I mentioned the feedback from BadWeb to the dealer about the ECM and/or the IAC, but per Buell Tech Support this is all they did. But the original symptoms still exist. Sputter and lurches while riding, making simple straight riding agitating and curves very upsetting. 3rd symptom - High-speed idling, only noticed as the days have gotten hotter (85-90+ degrees). Come to stop at traffic light, bike idles around 1,500-1,700 RPMs instead of 1,100. As stated earlier, the CEL came on just 2 days prior to my warranty expiring and so far, they've continued to work on it under warranty. I'm worried my luck with that will soon run out even though to me, the original issue has yet to be resolved. Any additional thoughts from anyone before I take it yet again to the dealer? | ||
| Ustorque |
Bruce, I feel your pain. I;m currently fighting my own lurching and surging demons for over a month now. I've been watching this thread closely to see if you'd hit on something that might work for me too, but just like you i'm getting nowhere. good luck and keep us posted! | ||
| Fast1075 |
There is a certain degree of surging that comes as factory equipment on an XB...I am told that is is due to the front and rear cylinders running off different maps...the rear being "richer" than the front... | ||
| Thump4fun |
Ustorque - I'll definitely keep posting back here until I get to the root cause or give up completely -- or people tell me to shut up about it already. :-) Fast1075 - Just to clarify, I've been riding this bike since new, 2 years and 9,500 miles so far. This problem is new and definitely not related to any "normal" Buell characteristics to which I've become accustomed. |
