| Author | Message | ||
     Blackandchrome |
The oil in my 2008 Firebolt has been disappearing for the last month or so. I changed the oil during the 1000 mile service (several months back, around 1800 miles ago.) I used the synthetic Harley oil (2.5 quarts), new gaskets and changed the primary oil at the same time (Harley tranny oil). Three weeks ago (~600 miles ago) I heard a bunch of weird noises during a ride. The red oil light would come on when I was slowing down to stop (some engine breaking). I saw that the front exhaust strap broke and the oil was low. I followed the instructions here to check the oil: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/531214.html?1264038682 I checked it while it was hot, the oil would not register on the dipstick when I just screwed it in. I'd have to start the engine to pressurize the system for it to read. I added 1/2 quart to the bike and it still wasn't reading completely full (it would not register until I started the bike). I put on 600 miles during Americade and I got the odd pinging again yesterday. I had the red oil light flashing when I was coming to a stop. I checked the oil level - it was low but still reading on the dipstick. I don't have oil spots anywhere. The only thing I can think of is that the bracket on my drummer was a little bit bent when I put it on the bike. It rubbed slightly on that hard oil line on the right side of the bike. You can see that some of the metal rubbed off, but it didn't rub through. There's no evidence of it leaking there. | ||
| Heavens_demon |
Have you smelled your exhaust? I know quite a few Buells like to eat oil. Oil just can't grow legs and walk away, and if your crankcase oil isn't bleeding into your primary, I'd say you're burnin it. Mine likes to burn some oil but I can barely smell it. | ||
| Blackandchrome |
The inside of the billet endcap does have a good amount of soot in it (but that's more related to fuel, right?) What kind of smell am I looking for. Should I be able to see oil on the dipstick if I remove it, clean it, put it back in, remove and check? I have to start the bike to get anything on it. I do see some oily residue along the bottom of the motor where the case splits. | ||
| Mbxb12scg |
I had a similar issue. took it in for 1000 mile service, and started checking oil regularly after that. went through a quart in 1000 miles. took it to the dealer and they did a leak down of the cylinders, and the rear was at 16%. Loose valve seal. had the top end re-built under warranty. they would have charged me for diagnostic fee if everything came back ok. worth the risk to check. Only 4-500 miles on it since I got it back. Some say "it's not broken in yet", but that much oil burn is not right, and I'm not willing to wait 5000 miles, or 5 quarts to find out later. Buddy of mine had the same exact issue on his 09 cg. | ||
| Heavens_demon |
Burning oil can leave soot, as well as fuel. The stainless end cap thing on my stocker has some soot on the top where the wind catches the exhaust and drags it over. Have you ever been behind a car that leaves a ton of black smoke and smells like shit? That's burning oil. Imagine your regular exhaust smell, and add the scent of oil to that with a hint of burnt rubber and that's a close comparison as to what burning oil smells like. Or if you have any old spent oil dip a paper towel in it and light it, that will also let you know what burning oil smells like. I can't smell any in my exhaust as of now but I also run it on race fuel so it's smell is a bit different than pump gas. If you have to start it, ie: get your oil pump pumping, to get anything on the dipstick then it's pretty low. I would try warming it up and topping off its oil then go on a ride and check the oil when you've stopped somewhere or gotten home. Then see how much oil you've lost. I have some oily residue on mine where the case splits too but none of it's fresh. You didn't take a nasty spill once and dropped it on its left side did ya? If so you could've cracked the case somewhere. The worst case scenario I can come up with is that one of your pistons, or both, have bad rings or scored cylinders. You should notice that just by how much power you used to have before all this happened compared to the power you get now. If that's what's wrong then your oil should smell like gas pretty bad when you change it. I tinker with motorbikes a bit but I'm no mechanic. That's just what comes to my mind first. | ||
| Kbaddict |
Black smoke is gas. Blue/white is oil. | ||
| Jbolt |
Is 1800 miles what you have on the bike? I also have an '08 12R. When it was new I thought it burned a lot of oil too. About 1/2 qt per 500mi. The dealership comped me a couple qts and told me it would get better the more miles I get on it. Took a while but turned out they were right. When it got to around 4k it started to get better. Now I have 17,000mi. Still burns some but not much, maybe 1/4qt every couple thousand miles. It sucks but I hope it helps. | ||
| 984gasm |
Keep in mind, the dipstick isn't that accurate of a read IMO. My old and new buell always read at the lower end of the dipstick consistently. I purchased a new dipstick from American Sport Bike (maybe) for my '04 and that gave me a much more accurate reading. I have not for my '10. Just throwing that out there if you are basing your comment on what the dipstick is saying. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Still under warranty, right??? Take it and spend the weekend running the unholy crap out of it...it will either break in or break down...either way, you fix it or the shop gets to fix it. I'm betting it isn't broken in yet... | ||
| Jbolt |
+1 on what Fast said | ||
| Blackandchrome |
Damn preview post, forgot to hit submit.... I have 2800 miles on the bike. I purchased the bike used and I think the warranty was up around April or so. The dealer that I used to deal with is no longer a Buell dealer so I don't have much leeway. I put in about 1/2 quart of Screaming Eagle Synthetic (20w-50) two days ago. I started to hear the odd popping sound on my way back from work yesterday (6 miles). There was smoke in the swingarm when I opened it. Oil wasn't registering on the dipstick until I started the bike and let it sit a minute idleing. I didn't have anymore of that oil so I put another 1/2 quart of Amsoil Synthetic (20w-50). I didn't get the popping sound at all on the way to work (the idle sounds very tinny or hollow.) I opened the dipstick and smoke was in the swingarm. Again, it's not registering on the stick unless I start it. I can't see the level on oil in there either. (judging by how short it is, I assume I should see it in there if I look hard enough) I'm supposed to make a 100 mile trip for work today. I'm going to stop at a Harley shop and add some oil. For some reason I thought the newer Buells didn't burn oil because of the new system. I completely forgot that Harleys are notorious for burning oil... | ||
| Fast1075 |
There seems to be some confusion about the proper oil level check procedure...here it is....engine must be completely warmed up (at least 10 minutes of on the road time)...put bike on the side stand...do not hold the bike upright...on the side stand....immediately after shutting down the motor (or as soon as possible)...remove the dipstick, wipe it clean....screw it back in all the way, unscrew it and look at where the oil level is on the stick....between the lower add mark and the upper full mark is normal. I run mine half way... You don't check it with the engine running...and if you try to check it after the engine has cooled off (like overnight, or hours later) the level will always be either non-existent or low...this is a dry sump system....after it sits long enough, some of the oil will bleed back into the crankcase...creating a false "low oil level". hope this helps... | ||
| Hdstn |
I could be totally off base here but going off building race motors for cars etc... Using synthetic that early could be delaying the break-in and your getting blow-by on the rings. Not sure what our bikes use for rings but if they're a moly type ring they're quite hard. All my street vehicles get synthetic but not till after a couple thousand on dino oil. My xb's got 6500 on it now and doing a 500 mile trip this weekend. When I get home it will get fresh oil and be on the synthetic diet from here on. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
My 2008 used to consume oil when it was new but stopped drinking it after a few thousand miles. 27,000 miles so far and it still hasn't thrown a rod  | ||
| Nobuell |
The only way to get an accurate level on my 08XT is with the bike idling while on the side stand. If I stop the motor to check, the oil level drops down almost immediately. Using this method, my oil level is at the 2X mark from the bottom. This level is confirmed when I replace the oil with 2.5 quarts. On mine, If I add over the 2X mark, it will just dump into the air cleaner. It is easy to over fill and loose the oil into the filter. When the local shop replaced my wheel and swing arm, they over filled and ruined my air filter. It was soaked when I looked at it. Fortunately, I had planed to do the 20K service when they returned the bike and it was replaced any way. The bottom line, be careful when checking your oil. | ||
| No_rice |
For some reason I thought the newer Buells didn't burn oil because of the new system. I completely forgot that Harleys are notorious for burning oil... good thing i dont have any harleys in my garage, only alot of buells. and no oil burning issues with any of them. on that note, how ARE you checking the oil? if you are checking it straight up and down it will read low if at all. and they do have a happy spot where they like to sit on the dipstick. that spot isnt necessarily topped completely off to the full mark. either way the oil light and sounds arent a good thing. do you not have another vehicle instead of continuing to possiably screw up your bike riding around to places for work when you dont know whats wrong?} | ||
| B00stzx3 |
Try getting some gasoline-engine LEAK DYE from your local Napa or Carquest. Borrow a blacklight from your local stoner teenager neighbor and run the bike with leak dye in it. | ||
| Blackandchrome |
I've been checking the oil when its on the sidestand when its hot/warm. I've been doing it after my 6 mile trip to work, as soon as I got home or to work. I replaced the kickstand on my bike because it was bent when I bought the bike. It still has a more drastic lean than the 03 XB9R in my garage. I never checked the oil when it was running. I'd get home, take out the dipstick and clean it off and put it back in. It would be bone dry if I just removed it and checked. I started the bike on the side stand and let it idle for a min. I'd then remove the dipstick and check the level there. That's what I thought I read I had to do in that other thread. I didn't have to take that trip today. This isn't my only transportation - I just wanted to take the bike for the trip... I picked up a new quart of Screaming Eagle on my way home. I added it to my bike while it was still warm from the ride. I put in 100 ml, checked, 100 ml, checked, etc. until there was only 100 ml left in the bottle. It was finally reading on dipstick. The whole fill up process took about 15 min I had the bike idleing for a min 2x in the process of filling it up. It was warm, but not hot. It was reading about halfway in the Xs. I went for a 6 mile mile ride and checked the oil as soon as I got home. There was a bit of smoke coming out of the swing arm opening. I cleaned off the stick, put it back in and checked it - IT DIDN'T EVEN READ ANYMORE. I put the remainder of the bottle (under 100ml) in. It was barely reading on the dipstick. There were no puddles of oil, no blue smoke. This was all done while the bike was hot/warm and sitting on the side stand. Recap: I did the 1000 mile service last November, about 1800 miles ago and used synthetic. I never checked the oil in the time being. ~700 miles ago, I got a weird popping sound while riding and the oil light would come on while slowing to a stop and turning off the bike. I added about 1/2 quart of oil. Oil wouldn't register on the dipstick unless i turned on the bike. I did a 250 mile ride up to lake george and put another 350 miles while I was there. I trailed the bike home. I got the pinging sound again on Sunday. I put another 1/2 quart in then (didn't register on dipstick). I rode to work Tuesday. Got the pinging on the way home and put another 1/2 quart in (didn't register on dipstick). I put in a quart today, and it's still barely registering. SO, I put in 2 quarts in the last 50 miles, and it still barely registers. I saw smoke inside the swingarm several times after rides. The 3 year warranty is up. I wasn't reading the dipstick correctly until today. | ||
| 1324 |
Did you drain the oil to see how much was in there? Might be interesting... My bike (05 12S) just started doing something similar. Light came on last week on my way home, so I checked when I arrived. No oil on the dipstick, so I added 1/2 qt. Still wouldn't register. At this point, I was out of 20w50, so I added some SAE30 just to get it registered. I'm changing the oil this weekend to get ready for the track, and I'm going to be monitoring the situation on a regular basis. I have no oil leaks, and my catch can doesn't have THAT much oil in it. No smoking that I can tell on start up or idle, and I've never been told it's smoking during rides. Runs good, no fouled plugs. Very curious, will need to monitor...Maybe Buell slipped us some fancy two stroke prototypes with valvetrains, lol. (Message edited by 1324 on June 24, 2010) | ||
| Blackandchrome |
So I accept that there was neglect on my part for not checking the oil level. Hopefully it holds better now. I have hit the limiter a few times over the past few months. I used to shift prematurely and saw how much more I had in the RPMs to shift. I've been trying to hold off shifting but it goes from good to the limit VERY quickly. Does this functioning of the red oil light sound correct?: The red light would come on when I put the key in until I started the bike (that should be normal - not suggesting a problem.) The red light would come on when I turned off the bike. It would remain on until I removed the key (not sure if that means a problem or not.) Before I got the weird pinging sounds, the red light would come on when I was coming to a stop. It turn off a few seconds when I was completly stopped. It would not be on at all while I was accelerating, keeping a steady pace or slowing down with traffic. It would only come on under 20 or 30 mph right before I would come to a complete stop. Has anyone heard of smoke coming off the oil? My roommate is mechanically inclined and he oversaw me yesterday. He really questioned about the smoke coming out of the swingarm when I pulled the dipstick. He was saying that that shouldn't happen unless something really wrong. I smelt the dipstick, it didn't smell gassy. The other thing that was bugging him was the fact that it read in range while it was warm. After a 6 mile ride at high speeds, it wouldn't register. If anything, it should have been higher because it expands when hot (which is why we check it when its hot.) In his mind, it burned about 100 ml in that 6 mile ride being that it registered before but not after. Thinking back, he should have followed me, but there wasn't a big puff at start up or a trail of oil. It sounds like draining the oil may answer some questions. I still have another 1000 miles before its really due. I'd prefer not to do it just yet since I just put in 2 fresh quarts this week. I don't want to contaminate the oil in the process. I do need to pick up another quart to get it reading at the correct level. I asked the parts guy if it was too early to put the synthetic in. He said he puts it in ASAP and 1000 miles was good enough. B00stzx3: What am I looking for there? I put that in the gas tank, right? After I do that, where should I be looking? Around the jugs, the bottom cases and in the oil tank? | ||
| Fast1075 |
If it is not leaking onto the ground (or all over the bike) or going out the exhaust (it would smoke a lot at the "loss" rate you are seeing)...as Sherlock Holmes said..."once all other possibilities are eliminated, whatever is left...however unlikely...must be the answer. It could be leaking internally into the transmission...checking the transmission oil level would tell the tale...if you pull the clutch cover off and oil pours out....there ya go... | ||
| 1324 |
Fast, I've had that thought as well. In my case, I'm changing the primary oil at the same time, so we'll see. That will ruin my day. | ||
| Sifo |
If you were leaking that much oil I think it would be hard to miss. Is it pushing it through the breathers? That would leave an oil mess inside of the air cleaner. This has me wondering if the scavenge pump isn't pumping the oil back into the oil tank. Could be filling the engine until it pushes out the breather. Other causes could be worse. Valves or rings. I wouldn't jump to those conclusions if it's making good power at this point though. I've never seen my oil light on when the engine is running with the exception of a second or so after an oil/filter change. Oil light coming on as you come to a stop sounds like the oil pickup in the tank is sucking dry. That just shouldn't happen, again making me think all the oil is in the engine. Anyone know how to check the scavenge pumps operation? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Wow. That is a lot of oil for such a short distance. Suggestion: pop the airbox open and start it up while watching the breather tubes. | ||
| Blackandchrome |
Even when it was pinging/popping, I didn't have a noticable drop in power. I had a weird start the 2nd time I started the bike in the oil filling process. I went to start and sorta started but just stopped abruptly. I turned off the run switch, turned it back on, waited until the yellow engine light went off and attempted to start it again. It hesitated, but started after a few seconds of trying. My friend said he saw a little cloud of smoke come out of the exhaust, but I didn't see that. On my ride there were two times when I noticed a momentary loss of power at lower speeds, like it almost felt like it wanted to stall. I accounted it to being at that slower speed range when the bike likes to fumble (which pretty much everyone on an 08+ talks about.) It wasn't consistent though. My friend suggested popping the airbox after my ride to check, but I had to go to a wake. I've seen several people mention that the dipstick is not the most accurate. If I did overfill it, there shouldn't be any reason that it would pump out MORE oil than it needed into the airbox, right? i.e. there as 3 quarts and it only wants 2.5 in there. The overflow wouldn't drop it down to 2 qt. It should drop it down in the 2.4-2.6 range by pushing the excess into the airbox. I should have the bike straight up when I open the clutch cover, right? I remember reading that and doing that when I changed the tranny oil. I used a new gasket when I changed that oil. Now that you mention that, I did notice a little bit of oil residue by the bottom of the clutch cover. If that's the case, how bad is that (the oil is leaking into the tranny)? I will check the tranny oil and pop the airbox when I get home. | ||
| Sifo |
I've seen several people mention that the dipstick is not the most accurate. If I did overfill it, there shouldn't be any reason that it would pump out MORE oil than it needed into the airbox, right? i.e. there as 3 quarts and it only wants 2.5 in there. The overflow wouldn't drop it down to 2 qt. It should drop it down in the 2.4-2.6 range by pushing the excess into the airbox. Correct! I should have the bike straight up when I open the clutch cover, right? Correct again. If that's the case, how bad is that (the oil is leaking into the tranny)? I may be wrong on this, but I think the only place that could happen would be through the crank shaft seal. Maybe someone else will chime in on this. I doubt you have pumped that much oil into the primary without it coming out the vent. My money is it's getting burnt, either from the breathers, rings, or valves seals. If you are burning that much oil the plugs will show it, have you looked at them yet? | ||
| Blackandchrome |
I have not checked the plugs. I'll try to check them tonight when I have the airbox off. I'm wondering if I'm making a bigger deal than it is. I should have been checking the oil all along and burning the oil during break in is normal. The bike probably ran at scary low levels. I finally figured out the correct method to check and put enough oil to finally read on an unreliable device. I took a short ride and it moved the oil around the system. Maybe when I checked initially it was all in the oil tank instead of being spread out in the bike. But then again, it ran at stupidly low levels. | ||
| Spdrxb |
How many "oil light on" stop lights did you do? If your posts are accurate I would not be too worried.ust keep an eye on it for a bit. Check/top off at every fuel stop. As others have said- My 08 used quite a bit of oil early on. I was using about 1 quart every 1000 miles. At about 2500 it started to get better. 1/2 quart. At 4000 i switched to SYN 3. Since then I do "hammer" it more than I did when it was new.( not a good thing I babied it during break in! now I know thats a bad thing) but with 8000 on it now, I have only added oil once during the oil change interval. (approx 1/8 quart). | ||
| Blackandchrome |
I rode about 15 mile home the very first time I started having the problem. I thought it was related to the broken exhaust strap and put another 15 miles on it before adding the 1/2 quart before Americade. I'd say I hit 10 stop lights. I didn't see the oil light on the trip to Americade, nor while I was up there. I hit about 5 stop lights last Sunday on the way back when I started hearing the pinging. | ||
| Spdrxb |
I mean no disrespect here dont take it the wrong way just trying to help you. Am I to understand your oil light came on and you continued to ride 15-30 miles? then added 1/2 quart? Im not sure what the low oil tolerance is on these engines. or at what point you were starving on oil? The light comes on and your supposed to look into it right away. The pinging might not be related at all, what grade gas you using? I always run highest octane available, you might just be hearing some detonation due to low grade gas? If I were you like others posted, even if its costly to you. You should drain the oil, change the filter, put in the 2.5 quarts. You will be starting "fresh" and can get a good baseline, go from there good luck! |
