| Author | Message | ||
     Thump4fun |
About two months ago my 2008 XB12Ss started dragging several times during any rides. By dragging the closest I can come to explaining is the feeling in a car when the air conditioner pump kicks on and the car engine drags under the added load. The bike started having a very similar feeling a couple months back. It would come and go in a few seconds, making the bike feel like it's lost some power. And before someone asks the needed question, no I haven't added an A/C pump to it. :-) It started get worse and worse until a couple weeks ago the check engine light came on and it was running terribly. Took it in and the code was for the exhaust valve actuator. Shop replaced it under the very last day of my warranty. I took it home and it rode even worse! I did a TPS reset (easy as cake on the 2008) and after several miles of consistent 3k RPM riding, it seemed to come back to life. I thought everything was great, but I due to alot of rain and life, I didn't get a chance to ride it again until yesterday. Now it's running like crap again. Very similar to before I took in the shop, except that now it's a constant drag to the point that it feels like it's lurching all the time. Drag...let go...drag...let go...drag...let go...etc. It's worse when you punch it. Doesn't have to be WOT, but just getting a bit aggressive up through the gears, it's 10x more apparent. RPMs don't seem to make a difference, but of course their higher when I'm doing some "spirited" riding. It's rideable but extremely annoying. And it's a bit upsetting riding through curves at anything other then a coast due to the constant feeling of power loss. The shop said they checked for intake leaks and didn't find any. The only relatively recent change to the bike has been to do the breather bypass, but that was a few months before the problem started. Don't think it's related. I checked the lines and nothing has changed with that. Any thoughts on where to look? Or to tell the shop what to look for? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Get it running an shoot a garden hose at the spark plug wires. | ||
| B00stzx3 |
I'd say run some Seafoam but it's only a 2008 so shouldn't be that dirty... TPS reset worked, try that again.... maybe adjust your idle? What mods have you done to it? | ||
| Thump4fun |
The only performance/engine mods are swapping the stock air filter for a K&N filter and rerouting the air breather. I also changed spark plugs to the Iridium's early in the year (Feb-March). Not sure what shooting a garden hose at my plugs is going to prove? This happens riding around on various temp days (50-90 degrees) and when it's dry out, regardless of humidity. My game plan at the moment will be to try another TPS reset as suggested and check the spark plugs and wiring. | ||
| B00stzx3 |
Hmmmm, I'm not an expert, but have you tried rechecking the catch can/breather mod? If a line were to get pinched it would probably have some ill effects and possibly this, I'm no expert though. Any pinched lines in the airbox? | ||
| Midknyte |
Battery or ground issue? The ECM does not like low voltage. Mine began to stumble before my battery went south. Cleared up after replacement. | ||
| Thump4fun |
More good thoughts, thanks guys. Game plan for tonight: 1. Re-verify the breather re-route lines (done before, but double-checking is a good thought). In fact, I'm thinking about putting it back to stock (relatively simple and painless) just to be absolutely certain that's not the problem. 2. TPS reset again 3. Run her for 10-15 miles to let the ECM re-learn after the reset. 4. If no joy, then pull plugs and wires to check them. 5. Plug her into battery charger overnight. 6. See what the morning brings. Thanks for the feedback. I'll post back when I learn more. | ||
| U4euh |
I don't know about the 08, but my 03, a friends 03, and another 04 had a rubber cap on the TBI that became dry rotted from the heat. It allowed just enough air seepage that every went south. And the running was very much like flipping the kill switch off and on. Replaced the cap, or taped it up, and they ran fine! If you take the air box base off, mine was on the right hand side of the throttlebody. | ||
| Hogs |
U4euh, So you had that problem with that rubber cap?? I had thought this was brought up before and was found out that the pin hole that rubber cap covers is after the T.Body plate , so in which that would not make any difference if it was off, But seems you say different, If so thats good to know. | ||
| U4euh |
Absolutley, my own experience was through trial and error. Like I said it was exactly like cruising along and quickly flipping the kill switch off and then right back on, but several times in succession. After several attempts, i seen that the cap looked pretty worn out and replaced with a cap from AutoZone, problem solved. Went on an all day ride with BWB member Twig. we were on our way home when his XB9 began to buck wildly, just like mine had done, but we were closing in on darkness out in the middle of no where, and pushed on but I could tell he was getting upset. First sign of a lit parking lot we ducked in and immediatley went to look at that cap, sure enough his had a crack comparable to a hole. Some electric tape and 35-40 minutes later we were back on the road with no problems. Similar story to a 04 12s. Don't know who said it wasn't a culprit, but I'd beg to differ. 3 times, thats more than coincidence if it solved the problem | ||
| Midknyte |
Can one o you guys post up a pic of that cap (on the bike) for us laymen? Thanks | ||
| Thump4fun |
So things seem a little better, I think, but not back to normal. Here's what I did tonight. 1. Removed air filter assembly and checked the breather re-route. Took it all apart and verified nothing was plugged up. Was going to put it back to stock but...I cut the front breather line and misplaced the back elbow line. So I left the re-route in place. btw - I don't use a catch can for those that mentioned it. My re-route goes right down next to the other open line next to the left footpeg. I leave the end open to mark it's territory :-) 2. Checked the spark plug wires and verified they were on good. 3. Found a short on my horn wire. Fixed that up and my air horn is back working...bonus! Gave that a possibility as the issue, particularly with Midknyte's comments. 4. Put it all back together, fired it up, and could tell immediately that while the idle was pretty stable it was still stumbling. 5. Took off for a couple miles and there was no difference in the ride. 6. Did a TPS reset and it seemed to help somewhat. Riding aggressively 1st - 3rd definitely seemed better with no perceptible lurching, but at any constant speed I can still feel the lurching / stumbling. 7. Rode her about 15 miles with no additional changes. Lurching didn't feel as bad, but was still apparent. 8. Came home and hooked her up to the battery tender. Indicator was under 80% for a few minutes, then flashed green for over 80%. Maybe a contributing factor. I guess I'll see what the morning brings. U4euh - I didn't see the cap you mentioned. | ||
| U4euh |
I've got to go in and inspect my intake seals tomorrow so I'll take a picture and post it up. Thump- Like I said I don't really know if the newer models havr it or not. I've only delt with the 03-04 models. | ||
| Brumbear |
check the 77 pin clean it up so the battery can fully charge while your in there | ||
| Gunut75 |
I replaced my cap before it got bad. I keep a spare in the tool kit too. | ||
| Thump4fun |
Well, I'm trying not to be too optimistic, but...other then a typical stall during a morning rough idle...after trickle charging all night she's running beautifully this morning!! No stumbling whatsoever on my 5-mile ride to work. I hopped on the freeway for a 1/4 mile ramp and got on her up to 80 and...no stumbles anywhere up through 6500 RPM. Midknyte - I think you were the winner here. It's looking like my charge was just low enough that the ECM was not liking it. Going to go through Gentleman_jon's post on charging system troubleshooting this weekend. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/442480.html#POST1400571 Brumbear - I will check the 77-pin tonight. Thanks for the pointer! I am seriously considering buying the LED battery gauge that Ft_Bstrd used. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/335986.html | ||
| Rangeridn |
Voltage regulator? | ||
| Midknyte |
I've got to go in and inspect my intake seals tomorrow so I'll take a picture and post it up. oooo, them too please. Midknyte - I think you were the winner here. I only know what I know.  It would really bug me when I got this stumble mid-turn and was happy to know that the solution was only a battery tender away. | ||
| Xbgeorge |
Thump4fun, You shouldn't have a #77 connector. 08+ have an updated design. (Message edited by XBGeorge on June 18, 2010) | ||
| Thump4fun |
Thanks Xbgeorge. I did determine that earlier after going through the forums. The 77 connector seems to be a 2003-2007 problem. So I dropped that from my list but will still be going through Gentleman_jon's charging system troubleshooting. As far as I can determine, I don't think there's an accurate way to check the voltage regulator itself. It's more a matter of checking the battery and the stator and ruling them out, which then points to the regulator. | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
For Midknyte,  unfortunately not on the bike ,but you get the idea!? (it,s on the right side throttle body) | ||
| Cataract2 |
You know, I have a post that has not been responded to about a stumble when running at high speeds (>4K rpm) It's there when you go to full throttle at that point and the bike is not accelerating slowly up (going up hill on a steep incline). Anyways, I found my cap was falling apart and wonder if that might be what's causing this. I used some electrical tape on it, but never replaced it. Anyone? | ||
| Rays |
You shouldn't have a #77 connector. 08+ have an updated design. Xbgeorge is correct about the updated design - both the regulator in/out connectors are located behind the R/H scoop. The '77 connector is still designated '77 connector but it is a cheap molded arrangement. To date I have only seen one post here where someone had to clean this to restore charging. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/569290.html?1275839216 I had a look at these on my XT the other day and I wasn't impressed with their 'design'. I absolutely love my Buells but it is so disappointing to see cost-cutting manufacturing methods like this. This is the same sort of thinking that removed the protective sheath from the internal fuel pump wiring (completely short-sighted as the warranty claims must have outstripped the cost-savings by 1000:1). I have been running a charging indicator on my '06 for a long time and I would definitely recommend this for the later ones and have put this on the top of the list to attend to on my '09. | ||
| Brumbear |
we had a guy 77 pin was the culprit, I know cause I misdiagnosed it as a stator for the guy I felt awful but his is an 05 | ||
| Rangeridn |
77 pin or not regulator may be trashed... know a guy with an '09...said on hwy it would lose power like it was winding down and then proceed to wind back up. The diagnosis as it was explained to me - regulator was toast and ECM kept throwing a fit and cutting power to keep from getting overloaded and fried. Although not sure why you're not throwing any other codes. | ||
| U4euh |
Thanks Brother, that is it and it is on the right side. The intake seals really cant be pictured in the current config, on the bike. I am gonna use something to spray at them to see if the idle changes on my motor | ||
| Thump4fun |
I continue to have the stumbling problem, but not nearly as bad as originally. Today I decided since the last thing I did before the problem started was change the plugs to NGK iridiums, I would put new stock plugs in and see what happens. In the course of doing so I busted one spark plug wire, so I put new wires in on both plugs. When I pulled the front plug I found it to be coated in black deposits...even the white insulator was completely black. Not sure if it's a contributing factor or an indication of the underlying problem. I'm not real knowledgeable on interpreting spark plugs. The service manual says sooty black deposits = air-fuel mixture that is too rich and/or engine idling for excessive periods. Not sure how to deal with the air-fuel mixture, but I do let the bike idle for 2-3 minutes in the morning when I leave home and also when I leave work in the evening, as well as any time the bike's been sitting off for a few hours. Basically long enough to back it out of the garage and put my gear on. Otherwise it jerks and stalls like a wild mustang. The rear plug wasn't nearly as bad and you can still see the white insulator..but it has the same sooty black deposits, just not as much. Here's a pic...the front plug on the left, the rear plug on the right. Any ideas on what the issue is here, and how it may relate to my stumbling, if at all? The stumbling/lurching hasn't disappeared entirely and the new plugs and wires do NOT seem to have made a difference. Of course...now I'm beginning to wonder how over sensitized I am to it after all this. :-/ I'm also beginning to have a love/hate relationship with my bike. I just want it smooth back out again like it used to be.  | ||
| Buell_41 |
gas cap? | ||
| Midknyte |
Looking at those plugs, I'm curious - do you have the same amount of blue-ing of your pipes? Or is one more or less so than the other (i.e. the length of the discoloration from the cylinder out). (assuming that your pipes are not wrapped) | ||
| Midknyte |
The only performance/engine mods are swapping the stock air filter for a K&N filter and rerouting the air breather. ah, that's a reason for the difference in the plugs. The engine runs leaner / hotter with a free-er filter if not running w/ the Race ECM. That front cylinder does not have the benefit of the fan to regulate its' temp like the rear. That will be exacerbated be the wrong ECM for your configuration. (Ya'll can argue amongst yourselves how much...) There's no real benefit in the K&N filter by itself. I ran it for a season. Just made things hotter. |
