| Author | Message | ||
     Vospertw |
All, I was sitting around yesterday waiting for my next session at the track when I noticed my front strap had broken. Packed up the bike and brought it home. Haven't had a chance to take a closer look yet, but I'm wondering what else I should check to ensure all is well? I had checked the tightness of the clamps at the 1000 mile mark - bike has just over 2000 miles now. I'm assuming HD will replace the part under warranty? | ||
| Froggy |
Check the header studs, riding without the front clamp puts too much weight on the header and it can sheer the studs right off. | ||
| Vospertw |
Thanks Froggy. I thought that would be one, wasn't sure of any others. The studs looked ok... dropped the bike off at the dealer this morning - time will tell. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Funny timing! This morning, about 3 miles out from getting to work, I picked up a new vibration on the new to me Uly. I slowed down until the vibration got better, and worked my way into work. Feel the rear right bearing... cool to the touch. That looks fine. Feel the left rear bearing, cool to the touch. That looks fine. I must be paraniod. Check the engine mounts on the front of the bike, all looks good. Relax. Checked header studs.... all intact (thank God!). Checked for a missing front exhaust header strap bolt... that's there. Kicked the front exhaust strap. Clank. Huh? Kick - clank. Kick - clank - flap - flap. Its sheared. Off to pep boys at lunch in a coworkers car to get some temporary strapping to get me home... I'll let y'all know how it goes, and if it works.  | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Those stainless steel straps are widely available at Marine supply stores for a small fraction of what Harley charges. | ||
| Blackandchrome |
How tight should these straps be? I snapped 2 in a week! I remounted my Drummer with a sealer at the header to prevent the farting. The first one I put on pretty tight. The second one I put much looser - hoping it wouldn't do it again. First time, it snapped the wide but think part. The second time, it snapped the bolt in half at the end (where I cant use it anymore) This strap snapped on my 260 mile trip upstate. I'm up at Americade and should have the strap sent to me by Wednesday. It it really that bad to be riding on it? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Well, for the record, the "exhaust strap hanger" kit at Pep Boys, which is just 5 feet of 3/4 inch soft steel strap with holes about every inch and two screws with nuts, works quite well as an emergency "get you where you are going" repair. The broken strap will pull right out without removing any exhaust mounts or bolts, just pull the chin fairing. The emergency strap will thread through the same way, and two are easy to get through. Three or four would probably go through fine as well, but the one 5 foot package of strapping doesn't have enough length for a third loop. Then just bolt the bottom and use the nut to pull both ends tight. Leave the chin fairing off (it will fit in a journeyman case) and git where you gotta go. Note number two... the napa sourced torca clamps are both just a hair too long (*so* close) and are thinner then the factory clamp. Off to hunt marine supply stores tomorrow... (For the record, I tried to buy a spare the last time I was at my local "Buell Dealer", who apparently doesn't think a "replace every time you remove the exhaust" part is worth keeping in stock >  ). | ||
| Vospertw |
Reep, let us know if you find anything cool. It would have been nice to have a spare - not sure I would have run the track with a makeshift one - but still good to have for a "limp home" capability. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Here is where I get my muffler straps. The quality was very good, never had one break. http://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/series.aspx?id= 127 I believe the rear straps are #70STBC750 Looks like the front straps might be #70STBC600 : check length before ordering. As a side note, it appears that as the Buell part situation develops, that it might be a good idea to make a data base of the generic parts so that people can find them more easily, and buy them less expensively. (Message edited by gentleman_jon on June 08, 2010) | ||
| Vospertw |
Quick question for you smart guys. If you have a front strap fail, should you loosen the rear straps as well and go through the alternate tightening process listed in the book (I realize that's in there for a complete muffler re-install) or just install the front strap and tighten to spec? | ||
| Afinley |
I've broken about 5 now, so I have some tips: The front and rear are a specific SAE size, and are labeled. Before you throw away a broken one, look on the strap for the size. Most auto parts stores can get you another one in a day. You do not need to remove anything to get a broken one out, but you need to remove the whole muffler to get the front one back in right, so order all three straps when you order the front one. With that in mind, get a standard U-shackle exhaust clamp and quit messing with the torca one. (I broke that, too) If you take off the front bracket enough times to thread the new strap through there, the side that holds the nut captive is not going to last (it took me three times) Instead of a new bracket, just go to Home Depot and get bolt union. It looks like a nut, but is 2" long. That way it can set up against the bracket, but you can still put a wrench on it. | ||
| Greg_e |
I keep saying that about all the different "generic" parts. Things like 08 Sporty speedo sensors working with 03-07 XB. Now those clamps. For the record, those marine clamps are not 100 percent the same. The clamps on my bike use a regular steel bolt and nut, those marine straps are all stainless. Since the nuts and bolts on mine are starting to get really rusty, I see a set of the all stainless straps in my near future. I should also note that my clamps have been on and off more times than I care to admit, no signs of stress. They should not be a use once part as there really is nothing about them that shouldn't conform to the mount the next time you put it on. Are people torquing them to tight? Or not tight enough? | ||
| Teeps |
Never broke a band upon installation, or had one break while in use. However, if the bands are over torqued, the muffler can will be dented by the mount. Don't ask me how I know... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Todays update... Stock front strap (measured, poorly): * minimum diameter 6.05 inches * maximum diameter 6.6 inches * Optimal clamped diamater 6.2 inches Markings on stock front clamp: * Five Star MFG * Crest Hill Ill * 241 125MF4X * 017 * (Logo with 5 stars surrounding a number 5) The "hot spares" I had at home were from Napa. They were nominal 6.5", which were just barely too big to clamp down. They are also noticably thinner stainless in the strapping then the stock clamps are, I'll try and put a caliper on them later. So the "any parts store" path is definitely rolling the dice as to if they will fit and if they will hold. Looking at that deep blue link, that would probably be (for the front) 70STBC625 (not 70STBC600 as guessed at above). That would be my guess anyway. For the record, I tried to buy these over the counter at two different local Buell dealers... neither stocked it... a "replace every time you remove the exhaust" part. This *is* different then the stock part, which Al sells and probably stocks. At a minimum, it has a nylon lock nut, where stock has a crimped one. The heat from the exhaust might be a factor with a nylon lock nut. And I don't think the manual says not to reuse the rear straps, does it? It's the front that is the stressed one, and the one that it is really bad if it fails. The rear is much less stressed, and fully redundant. FWIW, YMMV. | ||
| Greg_e |
The nylon might be an issue on the header, but I would expect it to last on the front mount and rear mounts just fine (but I could be wrong). I've also been reusing my header clamp too, no signs of a leak yet but I would buy a new one with the other three marine grade clamps. | ||
| Blackandchrome |
I took the fairing off and saw that the bolt that attaches the clamp to the bike snapped. (I had to reinstall that previously when I put on the last strap) I went to the local hardware store and got 2 hose clamps (around 6 or 8 inches). I also got a long grade 8 bolt to hold on the clamp I went for a 40 mile ride today. The hose clamps didn't make it. I had my friends put it on. They didn't overtighten or leave it loose. I'm planning on takig a 120 mile ride tomorrow. Ill be getting the steel strap with holes until the factory clamp arrives. I'll attach the strap tonthat bolt I replaced. I'll loosen the back straps, tighten the front strap and retighten the back straps. | ||
| Blackandchrome |
Update: I went through 5 #104 (6 1/4" - 8" length) stainless hose clamps from the local hardware store. The first time I put 2 straps on, they didn't last a 40-60 miles trip. 2nd time I put the hose clamp on (through the stock banana clamp) and then the steel "hanging strap" (3/4" wide steel w/ holes every 1/2") held on the bolt I used for the banana clamp. Both pieces snapped within 30 miles. I had 2 3" hose clamps that I put together for that ride home. That didn't last another 20 miles. My stock clamp should hopefully get to me today. I need to drop the muffler to get the front one on. I don't have my manual with me, what's the correct tighening sequence? Check header bolts, put on muffler, tighten header/muffler connection fully, tighten front strap, tighten rear (2) straps? How tight should the straps be? Just enough to take out all of the slack where it won't slide around PLUS another half turn? Is there anything I should look at besides the header bolts. Reep is saying it's the worst strap to loose, I don't want to cause permanent damage, but I am on my week long vacation upstate with twisties. | ||
| Greg_e |
I always do the header clamp last so that the muffler gets in position before clamping to the pipe. Seems to work for me. I snug the front clamp, then tighten the rears, then tighten the front, then the header. Don't know if that is correct, but it sure does work for me so far. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I do what Greg does... circling the bike and gradually bringing everything but that front clamp up to factory service manual torque specs together, frequently whacking the header pipe junction with a rubber mallet to make sure it's finding it's happy place in there. That front clamp gets torqued down last. Hopefully my marine supply clamps arrive today, I'll see if they are beefy like the factory clamps, or thin like the NAPA clamps. Even the thin NAPA ones will likely hold up better then a worm clamp or even that perforated mild steel exhaust kludge strap I got from Pep Boys to get me home. Now that I actually had one of the factory straps break on my Uly, I am going to take them more seriously. I reused them a bunch of times on the 9sx and never had any signs of problems, even when I (presumably) over torqued it the first time and deformed the exhaust can. | ||
| Greg_e |
My torque setting is use a 1/4 drive speed handle like this: http://www.toolsource.com/drive-speed-handle-p-108 972.html Hard to put enough torque on the strap to crush the muffler. I use it with a deep socket because that's all that reaches since these straps are about on the short end of the range. | ||
| Teeps |
First I lube the collector/muffler joint with anti seize. Then with the torca clamp loose, slowly raise the muffler with a floor jack until it's seated on the mounts. Wiggle it around a bit, then tighten the front then rear straps, and finally the torca clamp. 20k miles, all original muffler straps, they have been off/on several times. | ||
| Borrowedbike |
Book isn't at my fingertips but this goes on pretty damm loose. If you're "tightening" it at all it's too much. Check the front isolator too, had a rash of problems associated with a bad isolator not the least of which was breaking straps on the front. FYI, coat hangers will make it 300 miles. DAMHIK. | ||
| Reepicheep |
OK... update... Marine supply Torca clamps (6 1/4) are .68mm thick stainless (made in USA). ( 70STBC625 was the right diameter). Napa sourced Torca clamps (made in mexico) .75mm thick (this was the 6.5 inch size, which is too big, I'm assuming the 6.2 size is the same thickness). Factory front clamp (made in Ill USA) 1mm thick. So the factory clamp is significantly better then the aftermarket clamps. That doesn't meant the aftermarket clamps aren't good enough... I'm trying one now, I'll update. (Message edited by reepicheep on June 11, 2010) | ||
| Ourdee |
Where is the bailing wire when you need it? I read somewhere on here that the reason not to reuse the front clamp has to do with the nut not being made for more than one use. | ||
| Petebueller |
I'd change the front studs even if they look good. They have been stressed and it is a pain when they break. What Greg_e says. The stock clamps break if the muffler isn't seated in the front cradle. | ||
| Vospertw |
Petebueller - thanks for the head's up. Wonder if the dealer would do it? I took the bike in Monday, work was supposed to be done yesterday - supposedly the "computer" showed a front clamp in stock but wasn't there when they finally got around to looking. So now another 7-10 days awaiting a muffler strap. | ||
| Petebueller |
They probably won't replace the studs unless they are asked to. That sort of prevention isn't in the service manual. It would be best if they did. They are cheap and not too hard to change while they are whole and if you use anti-seize. Drilling them out later is a much bigger job. | ||
| Vospertw |
Well, since it will be sitting there for a week, it's worth a shot. | ||
| Greg_e |
Probably simple since they have the tool to pull them. | ||
| Vospertw |
Although the tech agreed that it would probably be worthwhile, doesn't look like the MoCo will approve it. Asst Service Mgr comes in tomorrow - will give him a call as well. |
