| Author | Message | ||
     Monk |
Can you use the buell race can without changing over to the race ecm?? The dealer says it will run to lean, but others have said that the stock ecm will adjust and cover it. Anyone have any knowledge on the subject. Again running a buell race can with stock a/c and ecm... Thanks, Mike | ||
| Lance12r |
I know the stock ecm works great with the drummer (and K&N). | ||
| Buellgator |
Sure it will lean the bike out a little, but it should be fine. | ||
| Az28 |
I just installed a D&D with a K&N. The first ride it did seem a little lean, but on the second ride it was running fine. I think the ecm adjusted to the new equipt. SOUNDS AWESOME!!  | ||
| Gearloose |
Az28,glad ya like it.Course there was a lil Iowa Farm Mafia work done on the tips. G. | ||
| Spike |
Mike, You can certainly get away with running the race pipe and the stock ECM. I had that setup for a while and quite a few others are still using that setup. It will be slightly lean, but will still run fine. Actually, I would strongly advise you against installing a Race ECM. My bike runs great with the stock ECM, but I've had no luck at all getting it to run right with the race ECM. Mike L. '04 XB12R | ||
| Opto |
Spike, What happened with the tech getting the race ecm running properly? I'm still running the stock ecm no worries and sitting on the race ecm. | ||
| Slowby |
the ign timing changes on the different maps for a high flow pipe. people still gut thier mufflers and rag thier bikes and say they run fine.  but you dont argue with real riders do you? snicker | ||
| Spike |
Opto, The tech looked over the bike and found the static timing to be off by a noticable amount. Apparently the factory rarely gets the timing set accurately. He set the static timing back to where it should be and reset the TPS and the AFV. The bike was running perfect for the first few days- didn't spit or stumble even once. ~250 miles later the bike started to go back to it's ways and started giving me trouble on cold starts. I now usually have to start it two or three times in the morning, and even then it has a noticable stumble at idle. The bike will still spit and stumble until it's warmed up, but not near as bad as it used to. Some mornings I only have to start it once. What's annoying about it is that I haven't found a way to make the bike idle when cold. Even when trying to hold the throttle and keep the bike at 1500rpm the bike will still stumble down to 1k or so and occasionally stall. It truly acts like a carbureted bike without a choke. I want to go back to the stock ECM, but I want to dyno the bike with the race ECM and the drummer before I make any changes. Mike L. '04 XB12R | ||
| Fullpower |
if it idles and runs good with the stock ecm, and wont idle and runs rough with the race ecm, then 'THE RACE ECM IS DEFECTIVE' it is really that simple. you have one good ecm, and one bad ecm. you may not be the only one with a defective race ecm. i have not tried mine yet, so i dont know if i have a bad one or not. Question for the audience: does any one have an XB12 with a race ecm that works? thanks for your input..... dean | ||
| Opto |
Slowby, we are real riders... If we were happy to go for a Sunday morning pose ride with a bike that wasn't running 100% then we wouldn't be here trying to find more information. Dean, the only happy people I have heard of with XB12's and race ecm's are Gearhead and Bads1. Any more please chime in. } | ||
| Slowby |
then i wasn't arguing with you opto. just a bit of sarcasizm. are you resetting the afv on a test ride? that tells the bike how much everything with temp and tp. i like to see it change. guilt will make you squirm | ||
| Trenchtractor |
Mine had a faulty temp sensor... Had a 50 millisecond spike right about operating temp (217 Degrees C, I think)... This caused it to muck up when cold. I still haven't got the race ECM working as yet. Current comfiguration of my bike is XB12S, Race Muffler, stock ECM, Stock Air Filter, Snorkel removed... Active Fuel Value of 99%... Spot on... Only like this until we can get race ECM and air filter to work. It still is reluctant to drop to idle in spiffy fashion when hot however... We (in Australia) are waiting to hear from Buell York for answers... Once my bike is sorted, I will post it... So far there is a bike in Canberra and New Zealand that are exibiting similar simptoms to mine. Anyone with problems with hanging at idle or pinging under load or cold running problems... Let me know your e-mail address and once my bike is sorted (hopefully in the next couple of weeks) I will send out a bulk e-mail to everyone... Ensure you include your configuration of bike model, snorkel, filter, ecm and exhaust... Brad | ||
| Trenchtractor |
FullPower, Mine runs fine with the stock ECM, yet every race ECM that goes into my bike makes it run like poo. Don't assume (arse, you, me) that the race ECM is busted 'cos the bike runs fine on the stock ECM. I am becoming a subject matter expert on this issue... Driving me crazy. | ||
| Gearloose |
Mine worked fine on my XB12S with D&D,filter,and snorkel tossed. | ||
| Opto |
Trench, there's another 12S in Brisbane (mine) with Drummer, K&N, no snorkel and similar probs. Ran the race ecm about 2 months, 2 tps resets, AFV kept going to 88% and the bike still running too rich. Symptoms: stalling on cold starts, big flat spot in the midrange, only ran well at WOT. Out of frustration refitted stock ecm, bike ran like a dream (after a couple short rides). Been back to the dealer twice to check AFV, once with the stock airfilter and again after fitting K&N, both times dealer said 100% AFV. Ignition timing was also reset at some stage due to pinging issues, this helped heaps but I have to be careful what fuell I use. Hope this helps, will ping you my email address. | ||
| Opto |
}Mine worked fine on my XB12S Ken, you mean the stock ecm or race ecm? | ||
| Trenchtractor |
Opto, got your e-mail... But bigpond (poofs) mailer deamon doesn't like your address... Was talking to Garry at M&W on friday... He mentioned your machine, either that or someone in the same boat as you... Now there is also one in Canberra and NZ... Total of 4 documented in the region. Garry seems to think he'll get an order from Buell USA for 8 gallons of aussie fuel so they can write a new map for our race ecm's. What did your drummer end up costing you all up?? Do you think it was worth the added cost of 2 way postage?? | ||
| Opto |
Brad, Garry was directly involved with my bike. I first fitted my race ecm in Nov last year, and after I finally worked out that the race ecm wouldn't cut it & went back to the stock ecm, Garry insisted I come in for AFV checks for fear of it running lean (checked out OK). Since the bike runs great with the stock ecm (cannot fault it) and I can't prove the race ecm is faulty (I was trying to use it with a modified pipe vs Buell race pipe) I decided to wait until the snow melted in the States and see what pans out - but now it looks like the problem might be local. I won't be surprised if there's pinging issues over there though as summer comes on, or maybe our fuel just isn't as good as theirs. I bought a Drummer outright US$450 plus K&N and race ecm from Tilleys, still got the original muffler, cost near exactly the same as a Buell race kit by the time I added freight, GST, duties and customs fees. If I could go back in time I would do the same except leave out the race ecm. I understand the frustration you are going through, I went through it a few months ago, just ask Buckinfubba how much I annoyed him when my race ecm made my Drummer-equipped bike run like crap! I feel the XB9 and XB12 ecm's are 2 different breeds and this has thrown off the mechanics/techs. The XB12 stock ecm appears to have an ability to adapt more than an XB9 stock ecm, and the XB12 race ecm has managed to upset a few people so far. Makes me wonder if the Factory is giving it's techs enough info... Ian | ||
| Gearloose |
Opto,it had the race ecm. | ||
| Trenchtractor |
I feel it is definately fuel related. I might be speaking out of turn, but I think the Race ECM is maped for US fuel, while the stock ECM for local fuel, hence the problem with our Race ECMs, Opto. I got the figures on our fuel here from the regulating body in Australia.••••••• breaks down a little like this... ULP is minimum of something like 92RON and PULP is minimum of 95RON. Lead replacement fuel is minimum of 96RON. Major capital centers (Brisvagas and Sydney etc) get a special 3rd option closer to 98RON. Since I live in hicksville, north QLD, I don't get that option. US fuel is much better. I know LRP shags Cat's, but if the Buell doesn't have a cat... Well I'm too scared to try it out anyway, even though 96RON looks tempting. I think it'd be bad for the O2 sensor. Anyway, still waiting on info from the factory. I guess it's only been 2 months and one week since I bought the bike... Tomorrow it'll have been 10 weeks all told... 70 days. Hmmff. Minimum acceptable scenario was that I purchased a fully servicable machine. Since the bike is not and has not been fully servicable, they have failed to meet the minimun required standard. For 10 weeks. Although I will admit it took a couple of weeks for my mechanic to take the job on, he had it for a couple of weeks, Brisvagas took another couple of weeks, yada yady yada... But hell, it still shoulda been sorted by now. | ||
| Spyder12s |
Hey there trench ..and the rest of ya !! I am also having an issue with the race ECM on the 12. have put the thing all back to stock, but I am going out right now to put the D&D back on and try it with the stock ECM ..I hope that some one figures out something with these race ECM's I have tried 2 and had no luck... OK just got the D&D back on took it for a little putt and all seems well so far ...going to go ride some more and will keep posted edited by spyder12s on May 12, 2004 | ||
| Opto |
I fitted an O2 sensor monitor (10 LED'S tucked in behind the flyscreen), looks to me the stock ecm is delivering the right amount of fuel in open and closed loop, just confirms the AFV readings from the Dig Tech at the dealer. The race ecm issue (works for some, doesn't work for others) has me totally bamboozelled at this stage. That word that Fullpower mentioned, but I really don't want it to be a reality, cause Buell makes good gear, is "defective". I think a defective IAT or engine temp sensor is unlikely (but not impossible) or our stock ecm's wouldn't work well either. | ||
| Spyder12s |
Opto, tried replacing all of that to get the race ECM to work and no go | ||
| 2k4xb12 |
Dean, the only happy people I have heard of with XB12's and race ecm's are Gearhead and Bads1. Any more please chime in. I'm running the race muff, ecm, etc. on my 12S and my only complaint is the occasional stumble when cold (although it did that to some degree with the stock ecm). No problems starting it, and never stalls. All in all, I'm quite happy with it. Steve. | ||
| Opto |
Thanks Steve and Gearloose, now we know for sure that at least four plus race ecm's do work well. It seems that it's a bit like tossing a coin as to whether a race ecm will work or not on a particular XB12. I might refit the race ecm, now that I have the O2 monitor, and see what happens in the air/fuel area. | ||
| Opto |
Refitted the race ecm, went for a quick ride up the highway and around town. According to the O2 sensor the bike is running just a little richer overall (like about 0.08V more from the O2 sensor), at WOT above 5k rpm the bike feels strong, perhaps my butt dyno thinks it to be slightly stronger than with the stock ecm. Pinging issues have resurfaced from down low to around 4500 rpm. I have to ride the throttle after a cold start to prevent engine stall. The cause of the flat spots in the midrange has become obvious - with just a little extra throttle (mild acceleration) the mixture goes way lean and stays way lean, no LED'S lit. When I open the throttle a fair bit further then the mixture comes good with the ecm in open loop. The race ecm in closed loop appears more erratic than the stock ecm, but I feel it's the timing that's advanced that makes the bike feel a lot rougher around town. The stock ecm will go back in this afternoon and construction of the megasquirt FI will continue, I feel there are gains to be made in smoother running and a few HP. Some pics of the O2 sensor monitor: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/53851.html#POST258502 | ||
| Fullpower |
update: new setup, XB12S Drummer, and RACE ECM. started right up, idles good, runs real good above 3100 rpm. also smooth below 2400. i get some stumble/lean miss in the 2600-3000 rpm range. worse in the rain. i ran 400 miles this weekend, mostly damp and rainy, bike runs real strong. made 130 mph real easy. nailed rev limit a few times in 4th gear. i have not had a tps reset done yet, just running ecm right out of the box. so i expect the light throttle miss to go away after a proper ecm reset. i have made an appointment to have BOTH ecm's reset on saturday. i will report back with results. | ||
| Opto |
That's really good news Dean, looks like you're on a winner! Been waiting to see how it'd go for months. | ||
| 420at145mph |
AWW MAN!! u CAN run the race ecm without having the tps reset??? damnit i coulda had mine in for 2 weeks now =( o well probly wouldnt help my UBERlean setup anyway | ||
| Ingemar |
Fullpower: Did you check for error codes via the engine management light after you replaced the ecm? If it needs a tps reset you should get code 11 through the engine management light. When I replaced my ecm I checked for error codes and got none (12 blinks meaning no code). It wouldn't idle at first but after I took it for a spin it relearned its stuff and now runs perfect. Opto: what octane were you running when the bike pinged? Just interested that's all. | ||
| Darthane |
420 - YMMV Mine would not run at all without getting the TPS reset, others have had little or no problem. Don't install it if you have no alternate means of getting the bike to a dealer for the reset. | ||
| 420at145mph |
thas why i havent dealer is 300 miles away  | ||
| Darthane |
ANY dealer or your preferred dealer (is there such a thing when dealing with HD?)? As an aside, you could always take the tools necessary to do the change with you and swap it in the parking lot. It's not a big job, although slightly time-consuming. edited by darthane on May 17, 2004 | ||
| 420at145mph |
the local harley shop wont even change my oil the ONLY buell dealership in north dakota is 300 miles away im pretty sure its the only one anyway think MABYE there is another one near here in montana but its just as far | ||
| Fullpower |
Ingemar.. negative trouble codes on xb. i have found a good use for the cavity which formerly contained the exhaust valve actuator motor. it now houses my spare (stock) ECM. i would keep a spare 45 magazine there, but too slow to access. maybe with some DZUS fasteners? | ||
| Opto |
Good thinking on 2 counts there Dean, I like the Dzuz fastener idea best considering how often my cover is going to come off in the future. Ingemar, I was running 98 octane. When I refitted the stock ecm (on the same fuel) the pinging was gone, and it wasn't pinging before I fitted the race ecm either.(tps was reset on race ecm a few months ago) |
