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Nightripper
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 03:36 pm: | 
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one tip harley and buell use the same pricing tricks on parts, if you need a new clutch basket for example it costs $365 for a bare clutch basket. But you can buy a preloaded complete clutch assembly with new basket, clutch hub, friction and driven plates ready to install in a couple of minutes for $385.
Harley has done this for years, same thing a rebuild kit for a rear master cylinder is $59 for springs and seals, you can buy a new complete master cylinder for $69.
So what ever you do ask the dealer for a price comparison on the differnt part assemblies cost and labor related to each type of repair. For what they are going to charge you in labor to take apart inspect clean and replace with new plates, it might be cheaper to replace the whole clutch assembly, you would save on larbor and get all brand new parts. Also get a new primary chain installed as long as everything is being torn apart. |
Kev187
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 05:29 pm: |
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quote:make sure that the pressure plates and the clutch plates metal backing are made of the same material as stock pressure and clutch plates.
A big problem with barnett clutch and pressure plates is that they are made of a different or Harder metal that will cut grooves into your clutch hub and clutch basket resulting in a badly grooved slots that when the clutch and pressure plats try to slide back and fourth they get struck in the notchs cut by the barnett plates.
I would always replace clutch and pressure plate switch stock oem parts, they will last the longest.
Its also very hard to disassemble a buell clutch basket assembly as it is preloaded spring pressure assembly and you need a special compression tool.
So I am guessing the Barnett kit is no good? Why would they make a kit for a bike, if ultimately its going to chew the metal up and cause damage???} |
Nightripper
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 06:33 pm: |
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Attached is pic of the kind of notches the barnett disks will cut.
most ppl don't see the damage until after they have problems engaging the clutch lever an pull amount increase or becomes difficult or after they replace the clutch again and see how badly the clutch basket and center hub are all chewed up.
The actual friction barnett surfaces hold up very well, the problem is the expensive damage they do. I gave up using barnett clutch plates 20 yrs. ago and never had any more damaged clutch baskets or clutch hubs using oem clutch disks
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Ulynut
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 06:41 pm: |
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I hereby now humbly retract my previous positive commentary on Barnett products.  |
Greg_e
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 07:34 pm: |
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The energy one kit also says it has high strength steel plates which will probably do the exact same thing to the basket. |
Nightripper
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 07:44 pm: |
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in any vehicle you should always use the factory original clutch and pressure plates and bearing, in bikes, cars, and trucks. Most factory clutches last to over a 125k miles and I have had so called performance clutches fail in late 60's and early 70's performamce cars at 10-20k and its alot of work to change a clutch in a car or truck.
The only place I could see using a performance clutch assembly is if you are drag or road racing and you are used to constantly tearing down and inspecting the motor. For the street stock oem is always the best. |
Kev187
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 08:42 pm: |
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Thanks everyone
Ill call the dealer tomorrow & have them get the OEM clutch. I appreciate the feedback. I am really leaning towards the fact that their mechanic at 5K miles did not adjust my clutch, he no longer works there. So I am pretty much screwed & at their mercy.
Ill get the OEM one back in & learn myself how to adjust it & no longer goto this dealer. Sucks, they are really nice there & have been good to me otherwise, but honestly, you cannot trust anyone anymore. |
Greg_e
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 08:48 pm: |
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As mentioned you might want to see if they have the complete clutch pack ready to install. If it saved 2 hours of labor it would easily come out even and then you know you have the new basket and other parts. |
Kev187
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 09:20 pm: |
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Thanks, Ill call tomorrow & find out what the complete clutch costs? I appreciate everyones help, Dealer opens at 9am eastern... need to get the ball rolling, I leave May 15th for a 7 day road trip! |
Greg_e
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 09:26 pm: |
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Sounds like you need time to check their work before you go. |
Kev187
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 09:31 pm: |
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I know I am venting, the service department is all new people since my 5K service, that dealer has had quite a turn over rate. The new service manager is a really decent guy & was very good & descript on the phone with me. He cannot answer for what may have happened at the 5K service? That was 1.5 years ago. I did not ride much last year due to the girlfriend having major knee surgery, no trips. |
Nightripper
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 11:11 pm: |
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just because you take your bike to the buell dealer doesn't mean your going to have quality work done. Alot of these so called factory trained techs are just guys who graduated form some mc training course.
Alot of these guys don't even know how to use tools properly, most shops are just into it for money and the faster they work and the more they can charge the customer is where they really make alot of money.
Most shops only make 30-40 profit on parts ,but they make 70-80 percent on labor, a service department is one of the biggest money makers for any dealership. |
Dallasb
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 11:21 pm: |
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Post up what they quote you for a clutch pack if you don't mind. |
Greg_e
| | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 11:27 pm: |
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All this work is run in "book hours". Someone somewhere decided it would take X hours to do each portion, the faster the tech does the job, the more jobs they can get through in a day and the more money they make. As far as parts markup goes, I can only say to the Mercedes dealers since my brother works for one, they can charge anything they like for any part, yes just pull a number out of the air and put it on the parts. I assume Harley is probably similar in that they allow the service center to mark up however much they want. |
2004xb12r
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 12:27 am: |
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30K? Wow, what are you doing to a clutch to get just that? I have 50,000+ miles on mine for my XB9SX and it's still the stock clutch from day 1. I would say you should get way more than just 30K for normal riding.
}I was basing this off of a aggressive enduro style riding what the Uly is supposed to be. 50K on a clutch is hard to get from a enduro style riding, or even from someone who rides in inter-city traffic, freeway or cross-country no problem. |
Kev187
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 01:41 pm: |
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I told the Dealer to order the OEM Clutch Plates. I asked about the complete Clutch, he put me on hold & checked, said there is no part number for a complete clutch kit, and the basket ect.. would be extra. So I had him order the OEM plates & such. Said 3-5 days & I should have my bike back next week :-P
I told them I wanted the burnt clutch plates back, so Ill have pics posted here. |
Greg_e
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 01:47 pm: |
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It is highly likely that you will have at least 1 friction plate that is still in tolerance so you can have a spare. Seal it up in a plastic bag and store it somewhere. Sames goes for any steel plates that still work. |
Arcticktm
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 12:14 pm: |
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Sounds like I am too late to help, but I posted my experience on my '06 Uly clutch failure over the past 2 years in the Knowledge Vault\Drivetrain\Clutch.
I went with Energy One, and it cannot be used as they say!
You can see the link for the MANY details, but summary is that I had to go buy OEM steel plates (E-one's were different thickness), and then eventually go buy a new inner friction plate setup (the narrow friction plate, belleville washer and spacer seat. My clutch is now excellent for a few thousand miles, and I am still using he Energy One frictions except for that narrow plate is OEM.
Clutches wear, so what one person gets in mileage does not make it a rule. Mine burnt out at <9k miles after a grand total of 10 miles on a jeep trail (all other miles on pavement).
I have owned a dozen or more bikes, raced enduro's, etc, and never had a clutch issue before now.
I ended up gearing mine down with XB9 primary set, and am very happy with the results.
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/456488.html?1251824388 |
Arcticktm
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 12:18 pm: |
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...and to re-iterate what others have said, the clutch adjustment (both in the cable and in the primary) is quite easy.
Buy a service manual. It is the best accessory I ever bought for my Uly.
It is well done (except for the too high drain plug torques). |
Greg_e
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 12:37 pm: |
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Maybe we should all ask Energy one about this and see what happens, they sure do claim it to work.
I found another kit a few days ago but didn't bookmark the site, sounded more like an OEM set and might actually be the real manufacturer. If I get time I'll look for it again.
Not sure why it would be this hard to make a good aftermarket replacement that actually works and doesn't wreck stuff. |
Fast1075
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 01:32 pm: |
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Here are the facts....the OEM is as good as anybody's....lots of people get huge numbers of miles out of the stock parts.
It takes abuse, neglect, the wrong lubricant or improper adjustment to kill a clutch in short order.
How long will the clutch last in my XB??? Dunno...the way I ride it, the factory would call abuse...but I maintain it and adjust it properly, and use the correct lubricant...if I get 30K out of it all well and good....if not...it gets a new one and off we go...
Clutch wear is a moot point to myself...I dragraced a high horsepower bike with an MTC slider clutch...that meant maintenance every other pass and usually a whole set of plates a month...sometimes more or less depending on the tracks I ran at... |
Kev187
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 10:20 pm: |
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I had thought about the gearing down with the XB9 primary parts. What everyones experience with this? How bad it is on the Open Freeway? |
Tarshi
| | Posted on Friday, April 30, 2010 - 06:17 pm: |
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My 09 SCG also seems like slip. 24K and hard rider.
Actually I bought Barnett already so I will change the plate tomorrow then update shots to you guys. |
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