| Author | Message | ||
     Fudge1340 |
JUST TAKING A POLL FOR XB TANK SLAPPERS AND RESULTING CRASHS AND INJURIES FOR THE MEMBERS ETC. ALSO WHAT HELPED CURE THE PROBLEM MODS ETC. | ||
| Andymnelson |
What kind of poll?? What are you fishing for here? ALSO, WHY ARE WE YELLING? | ||
| Fudge1340 |
no fishing, just wondering how many ppl have this happen to them and frequency. If it happens quite alot then it is a problem and ppl. should be aware of it. A bike that developes tank slappers for no aparent reason is definitly a problem. How you you like to crash due to a design issue. I've read that the xb buells will develope violent tank slappers due to hard braking even at low speed or upsetting the front end at high speed. | ||
| Bads1 |
Your bike isn't set up right. Tire pressure and the suspension set not right. Its not a design problem.Nothing wrong with the bike. Its set up. And where did you read this??? Can we have a link??? (Message edited by bads1 on April 07, 2010) | ||
| Geforce |
Where did you read this? The ole tank slapper can happen on any vehicle with two wheels. It's not just a XB concern. "xb buells will develope violent tank slappers due to hard braking even at low speed or upsetting the front end at high speed" ^Any motorcycle is capable of "developing" this issue. | ||
| Roysbuell |
Mine gets a bit jittery over 100 but you have to remember it was designed to be flickable not for flat out top end speed. Get a steering stabilizer if your worried, that will fix it. Just don't forget to dial it down when in a parking lot or your going to fall over. | ||
| Chessm |
i do a lot of hard braking on my stock XB. i also do this while chasing down aprilia SXVs and Husky motards on bumpy and dusty goat roads at full tilt. every now and then, i get to do slow braking as well, as i get stuck behind the odd sportbike or harley every now and then. along with the hard braking is hard accelerating. with all my weight on the front end, and the front tire still skimming the rough ground, i spend a lot of time chasing or leading said motards on the same goat roads. getting air is a normal occurance. and now with over 25,000 miles of doing this on the XB, ive never had any issues with tank slappers. on the GF's z1000 on the other hand, i crashed after a tank slapper while attempting the same antics. | ||
| Andymnelson |
Yeah....there's no design issue, guaranteed. A tankslapper will happen when the front wheel is out of alignment with the rear wheel- usually happens if the front looses traction (ie: wheelie, bump in road etc). It's an issue on any bike...but only if not ridden properly. | ||
| Gunut75 |
Where did you read this? I think that because of the radical suspension geometry, a worn tire, or improperly adjusted suspension could increase the chances of it happening. If the bike is well maintained, then its not a problem. Mine used to wiggle when I let go of the bars at 35mph, but was cured by a new tire (yes, the old one was smoked). I have never had one go into a slapper, or wiggle while hard braking, and I was on em hard enough to be on the edge of locking up the front. I guess that means, for the poll, mine was a mere wiggle while cruising 35-45mph, and was caused by the front tire needing to be replaced.  Thats not a design flaw, it's piss-poor-planning on my part. (Message edited by gunut75 on April 07, 2010) | ||
| Killroy134 |
I had this happen because of a rear motor mount failure and it took me down. I guess that is unusually rare though and usually results from a previous crash from what I have learned. Had nothing to do with the front end though... | ||
| Union_man |
All performance bikes can produce tank slappers that can result in a crash. The problem can be made worse by incorrect suspension setup. Proper suspension set up and a steering dampener will reduce the chance of a slapper. I ran one on my GSXR but do not run one on my Buell. I have never heard of a Buell owner claim to have experienced a tank slapper while driving within the limit of the law.  | ||
| Froggy |
40k miles on one XB, 17k on my Uly, 7k on my 1125CR, 2k on my 1125R, 9k on my Blast. The only times I ever had a tank slapper was screwing up landing a wheelie, and even then it was minor and the bike corrected itself before I could even think. | ||
| Ghostrider |
I'm with these guys. I ride aggressively, both on and off the track, and it's never happened to me in 25K miles on my 9R and 2K miles on my XT. | ||
| Delta_one |
chassis/swing arm flex is a MAJOR contributor to slappers and the XB just doesn't allow much flex at all due to the fully boxed frame swing arm and ridiculous amount of over engineering. I have been in 4 situations where I felt a slapper was eminent on my XB, 3 of them I had experienced slappers under the exact same conditions on other bikes. 1 gravel mid corner kicked out the rear tire, quick throttle clutch brake and shift work got the tire to bite before a low side and kept me from a high side but I was sure the swing arm would flex out of alignment leading to a tank slap. I was prepared to climb on the throttle again to straighten her out but only a minor 3 shimmy head shake happened. did this on a ninja and nearly bit it 2 set the front tire down with the bars cocked to one side a bit, again small head shake probably from tire flex and traction doing the bite grab thing. did this on a CBR and again nearly bit it 3 got both tires in the air while leaned over in an aggressive corner. I did my best to gather the bike up but was sure that I was going down, no chance of recovery, stupid move leading to stupid crash. by the grace of some divine entity and a ridiculous amount of chassis rigidity (thank you Buell motorcycle Co  ) I was able to gather it up and keep my butt off the asphalt. never did this on the street before but I don't think my cheeks un-clenched for a week after, did it a quite a few times in the dirt with more than one resulting in a tumble. lastly was a front tire lock up on the highway after getting cut off. I don't know if this can lead to a slapper or not but I was glad that I did it on a Buell as opposed to any other bike because I thought I was done for. brief background I started riding in the dirt at 7 on a 100cc 2 stroke mainly trails and a little on the dunes no motocross or big jumps I did this until about 15 (some quads mixed in there too) I started riding on the street on and off with friends bikes at 17 but didn't get serious into it until about 2-3 years ago. I think the dirt experience helped but the man thing that kept me out of trouble was the incredible chassis and geometry of this bike. I don't think aggressive braking will do anything if you have the bike set up right. I am a notorious late brake-r and will on occasion pull a stopie by accident and regularly fish the back end around locking it up but if you are worried about it get a damper, just set it and forget it... | ||
| Chessm |
ya + another 1 on the crazy deep trail braking and the landing wheelies crossed up..still never had an issue with tank slappers. if the XB bikes always got into tanks slappers while braking at slow speeds, they wouldve renamed them TL1000s | ||
| Greg_e |
TL1000 or early GSXR Both were extremely prone to slappers. I found my 9r to be extremely stable on bad roads at high speeds. | ||
| Reepicheep |
30k miles on an XB9SX (including two track days, and one hopped curb while leaned over at speed) and never a hint of a tank slapper. Two people that wrecked bikes claiming on the internet that they had a tank slapper does not a fact make... And make sure your terms are precise... any two wheeled vehicle that has the front tire line of travel unaligned with the rear wheel line of travel (bad wheelie, loss of traction, whatever cause) will oscillate. The idea is that those oscillations are dampened, and the bike gets itself back under control quickly. The XB has been the best platform I have ever swung a leg over, I've never felt anything near as stable. A "tank slapper" is when the oscillation starts without a misalignment of the wheels, or when it grows in frequency due to positive feedback instead of being reduced in frequency due to damping. I had a Yamaha that would do go into one any time I coasted downhill with no hands on the bars, and it would keep getting worse until I grabbed them. Just because somebody landed a crossed up wheelie badly and wrecked before the bike could regain their composure does not mean a bike is prone to tankslappers... It just means a bike is prone to riders that land wheelies badly.  | ||
| Delta_one |
Chessm makes a good point I forgot to mention that I am almost always trail braking but I tend to do it wrong from a road racing standpoint. I primarily trail brake with my rear brake  nasty dirt habit I picked up along the years but I like it. thinking about it I don't have to worry about over using my front tire and washing it out. I would much rather loose adhesion in the rear than the front. but there are times when I need to decrease the radius of my turn late in the corner and do so fast. using the front brake gives me that extra dive when I need it but can feel unsettling worrying about tire wash out and feeling the front suspension compress rapidly makes me uncomfortable, like I may go over the bars or loose my grip on the seat while I hang off. I never have and probably wont but sometimes it feels that way largely because I came into the corner too hot in the first place.  I like the smoother transitions with trail braking and feel that reducing that abruptness will help keep me from overloading my tires. now back to your regularly scheduled tank slapper programming.
  (Message edited by delta_one on April 07, 2010) | ||
| Bads1 |
You trail brake on the street?? | ||
| Rc3094 |
I had one of the early TL1000S that was retrofitted with a damper. Took the damper off once I got home. Never had any issues on the street or track. Like it has been mentioned previously, it's all about suspension set-up and tires. A tires profile can lend itself to being more prone to tank slappers in combination with poor suspension set-up. A worn front tire can lend itself to a tank slapper. Poorly adjusted and/or worn head stock bearings can lend itself to a tank slapper. Grossly incorrect tire pressures can also do the same. When it comes down to it, there are any number of variable factors that can lead to the front end searching for its own suitable contact patch. Is there a design flaw with the Buells - I don't think so. Was there a design flaw with the TL1000S - I don't think so. I think there were just enough noob's that crashed to warrant Suzuki implementing a patch for the issue. I knew a number of guys that had the TL's and not a single one expressed issues with tank slappers over 3-4 years of riding them H-A-R-D. I ride my XB12S hard enough to lift the rear on braking and have never noted even so much as a twitch from the front. I've set a few crossed up wheelies down and had the front end snap into the correct position but never anything more. | ||
| Fast1075 |
I have fallen down, been thrown down, high sided, low sided, crashed in every possible way on a number of bikes on the street and on the track over the years. including some production road racer bikes. I have never ridden a more stable platform than my XB12. If you have issue with tank slappers on an XB...most likely the bike has some sort of OWNER NEGLECT, INCOMPETENT tire selection or IMPROPER SETUP issues...I have had mine wiggle a little on EXTREME braking...nothing abnormal and to be expected on a SPORT BIKE being ridden hard. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
I experienced a tank slapper so bad on my '08 XB12R that witnesses told me they'd never seen anyone ride out such a violent wobble. Of course, this tank slapper was the result of me running wide coming out of turn 1 at Jennings GP and getting caught in the dirt gully that runs alongside the track. When I carefully steered back onto the racing surface (up and over a lip) I found myself hanging on for dear life as the bars got closer and closer to hitting the frame. I didn't accelerate, I didn't brake, I didn't fight it- I just attempted to hang on. After a few seconds the bike settled down and all was fine- until I discovered as I entered turn three that the oscillation was so severe that I now had no front brakes. It took about 7-8 pumps of the brake lever to get pressure back to the caliper. Damn scary! What did I learn? The XB handles tank slappers extremely well, and that I'm luckier than I am good. If you had asked me before that session what I would do in the event of a tank slapper, I would have replied that I had no idea. Thanks to the design of the XB and not doing anything stupid I survived what several witnesses said was "the tank slapper from hell". Thank you Fortuna and Erik Buell. (Message edited by redbuelljunkie on April 07, 2010) | ||
| Demarsico |
i would like to know what a tank slapper is. is it where the bars turn so hard they hit the tank. and froggy, you must have a large garage | ||
| Froggy |
This is a tank slapper: And its only a 2 car garage, but I don't have a car  | ||
| Kenm123t |
Hey Guys Dont feed the troll! he speaks like a sniffing attorney | ||
| Luxor |
Fudge, If you have an issue just sell the XB and buy a Vespa. Seems every post from you is anti Buell this and anti Buell that. That being said I really do enjoy reading your rantings on non-issues, gives me a hearty laugh. Now, tank slappers, NOPE. An 03 XB9S and an 04 XB12S, with many miles on both, aggressive riding and some dumb stunts. Never had a tank slapper because I know how to set up my suspension AND I know how to ride. Have a nice day. | ||
| Geforce |
This thread is sending me into a KNEE SLAPPER....from laughter. I think Luxor is on to something. Nothing but odd little jesty poke threads coming along from this guy. | ||
| Swampy |
I have never experienced a tank slapper, I have experienced handle bar shake when decelerating and with no hands on the bars entirely due to worn/cupped front tires. I hate attorneys, they are nothing but pettifoggers and shysters. I have heard people say that as soon as society collapses watch out, retribution will be made for all the years of pettifoggery and lying. They are all sworn to the same "Bar" that the judges, prosecutors, and opposing counsel is sworn to, so do you know what they talk about when they all go back to talk in the judges chambers? How many "chargeable" hours they have in the case. It has nothing to do with the facts of the case but how they can enrichen themselves for their "performance"(as in acting) Mamma's don't let your babys grow up to be Lawyers.... Rant off.... | ||
| Glitch |
You trail brake on the street?? Yes, why shouldn't I? Keeps the suspension loaded while I get ready to get back on the gas. Keeps everything on track and predictable. WRT tank slappers: Tires in good condition, and suspension being set up are key. Also not having a death grip on the bars will help a lot too. Buells IMHO won't benefit from a damper, although if you're going to race, it can be mandatory according to some race organizations. Unless of course it's for your peace of mind. Confidence is everything. | ||
| Swampy |
I practice trail braking into and through corners when I get a little too hot or when the corner tightens up on me. I don't brake soo hard that a violent suspension transition occurs but you can feel it kind of sink in to the corner. |
