| Author | Message | ||
     Brickcop |
Does anyone else have the D&D exhaust. I have had zero trouble with it running the stock ecm and a K&N filter. I did not have the bike dynoed after installing the pipe but I would say it did add some ummpphh. D&D claims up to 5HP and I could believe that. | ||
| Az28 |
I am considering buying one. How would you describe the sound? Anyone have a sound clip? Thanks JR | ||
| Bads1 |
Has either one of you checked out the Drummer???? | ||
| Austinrider |
Brickcop - I have had the D&D since last summer. One thing I have noticed is a weird "lag" in the torque curve. I haven't dyno'd the bike yet to see the exact graph, but I do feel it in the acceleration. Its nothing major, and in reality, the only time I curse it is when Im at the track on my bike. Other than that I love the D&D, I notice folks know Im there on the freeway when I commute to work, I like that. 5HP is a big pill to swallow, but then again I have had the pipe a while now. | ||
| Xb9r49er |
I just put on a Wileyco and noticed that same torque curve , but the top end has greatly improved (10 mph) | ||
| Buckinfubba |
maybe I just want to stir it up alittle bit. but the torque curve on the D&D and the wileyco, and the jardine all look the same. But what the hell, heres what pisses me off D&D made a pipe for the tubers that was a great pipe. Not the first on they made. it was the second one. they really did a good job. and it was priced at $335 now they make a pipe for the xb's, that we have seen the dynos and it ain't anything to write home about. big lag down low. then it comes on hard for a very short period and then falls off. and they are asking $595 for it. so the pipe doesn't work as well and they want $260 more for this. somebody explain to me why anyone would spend that much money....and if sound is your answer...christ buy a freakin harley. In america if you keep buying someones product even tho its not the best that they can do...and D&D can do better they are a very qualified company....why would they you are paying them to do, in my eyes not their best work. I am not slamming D&D like I said I believe they can do better for the buells, they've done it in the past for buells, and other makes. its just a question thats all I am asking. If you wanna flame me have at it. edited by buckinfubba on March 27, 2004 | ||
| Buellny |
It's a mid range pipe, which is where I would like the power. I don't give a crap about top end. The only slightly disappointing thing is the "low end lag" that you describe...I haven't noticed it. The D&D is slightly better then the Buell race pipe (my previous pipe) throughout the curve. That makes me happy and, yes, sound is/was something I was looking for. That's a personal preference and you can't fault people for that. Aren't you one of the guys that push the Drummer pipe, as if it were a drug, on this site? Don't you have something to do with the production and sales of the Drummer pipe? That's what we call a conflict of interest in the Business world. I'm not saying that what you say isn't true, but people tend to embellish what they want others to believe. Buckinfubba, this reply isn't a personal attack on you. I enjoy reading your posts.  | ||
| Buckinfubba |
IT IS A MID RANGE PIPE...for all of about n1.5rpm basically 4k to 5.5 k. but it is not smooth power. the fact that yes I am involved in the drummer has absolutely nothing to do with this. the reason the drummer ever got made was because the buell pipe and the D&D were a totasl let down especially when as I said D&D can do much better than they did. so what I am faulting them on is resting on their name and their laurels. I had high hope when I heard D&D were coming out with a pipe but at $595 and a increase of price of $260 in one year. I am sorry I had to call bullshit on that. There is no reason for it to be priced at $595 all I am doing is looking for answer | ||
| Catabler |
Buellny, where is the conflict of interest? Kev and Brian don't work for D&D! They are tootin' there own horns because their product rocks. Don't get upset, just buy a Drummer. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
no I am not saying to buy a drummer and I am not tootin the horn. I am pointing out how a company could and does have the resources to make a better pipe. I know D&D could if they'd give it shot. I like D&D, I just feel let down by what they gave the xb's compared to the tubers and again in one year the price jumped $260. this is not a figh5t between what is better or worse. its about how we all bitch about buell won't do this and blah blah blah. but we will gladly spend our money on aftermarket shit and when it don't perform well we let them slide. why is that. I am still looking for answers. but Cat thanks for your words and I am very glad you like it | ||
| Gonen60 |
Brian I agree. 600 is way to much for any pipe. That should be full system price. Or at least carbon fibre or titanium. | ||
| Austinrider |
I bought it for the sound. No I wont go buy a harley. I wanted something that let the soccer mom on the cell phone KNOW that I was nearby. No other pipe that I saw offered me that. Yeah, I know the Force did, but that was 2x the cost and look at how Misato faired on that one. Tell ya what Bubba, I will turn in the D&D if you ship me a drummer   | ||
| Buckinfubba |
still the point is being missed. why would a pipe altho a different style, go up $260 in one year. I ask the same thing when the force came out for the xb's. for the tubers it was almost $600 for a full system fair good to go. then for the xb's its twice the price. Tell ya what I won't ask anymore questions about it and I'll just let it die. but lets sit here and bitch about buell this and that and not hold the aftermarket as accountable as we do BMC. I am done with this one I guess what if the price of the xb's was 16k compared to what the tubers cost when they were new in 2002.....would we be bitchin up a storm....hell yes edited by buckinfubba on March 27, 2004 | ||
| Easyflier |
I have to agree with you Bubba, the only thing I can come up with is that it's about volume. But I question that too since Buell is now on a single platform with a line of bikes that are performance accessory magnets so in reality the investment for manufacturers and potential return for the XBs should be better than any models that preceded them, and should drive the cost down. | ||
| Johncr250 |
I agree, $600 is too much for a pipe only. But $350 is crazy, for just a modified stock can! | ||
| Easyflier |
You think? For comparison I cut one of my mufflers apart and took it to a local welder to make a couple changes and put it back together, charged me $55 and it doesn't perform anywhere close to a Drummer. I don't know how much trial and error and trips to the welder it would take to find the sweet spot. I have a feeling that Kevin and Brian probably put quite a bit of time into getting the best performance possible with dyno runs between each iteration. While I don't like the idea of paying $350 for a muffler, compared to the competition it's a good value. | ||
| Buellny |
Buckinfubba, The points you make are valid. D&D shouldn't have jacked up the price by $260 for a steel pipe. I asked them a while ago why they didn't offer it in at least stainless steel. Their reply was that it would've made the pipe cost even more. I said "is that possible?". Through friends, I was able to get the D&D a couple hundred dollars cheaper and "no" it's not hot. I would had love to try the drummer, but at $350 and I provide the pipe?...It didn't make sense. I went with the D&D where they do the R&D (like you) and they provide the pipe. As far as the power difference...I can't honestly say anything about that. I'm not even going to try and pretend I know what I'm talking about. I'm an accountant not a motorhead (was an helicopter mechanic in the Army though  }. I rely on some of my close friends, which work on bikes for a living, for small engine performance knowledge. Maybe D&D will read this post and in the future provide you guys with a pipe that you expected from D&D….then I’ll buying another pipe. I haven't run my Buell with the D&D yet. Who knows?...maybe I'll disappointed or happy (hopefully happy). edited by buellny on March 27, 2004 edited by buellny on March 27, 2004 | ||
| Buckinfubba |
hey john since you have bug up your ass about me and this here drummer. 6hrs labor per pipe, plus parts plus shipping. 13 times the pipe was torn apart and reconfigured, something like 70 or so odd dyno runs to get it right. trouble free enjoyment of the pipe that will never break and has better proven performance across the whole entire rpm range. you add it together is it worth $350 maybe not to you. funny how you show your face everytime something like this gets started about the drummer. its ok come out of the drummer closet  | ||
| Johncr250 |
Yes i think that i think $350 is pretty steep for a modified stock can. When you can buy several other pipes outright for that price. So i`m cheap, what can i say. I never bashed the Drummer. As a matter of fact my friend has one on his XB9 and he loves it! I have ridden it also and i think the bike runs and sounds good. I don`t doubt that you initially spent alot of time developing the pipe. But 90% of the parts are provided to you by the owner. And it takes six hours to make one? With all do respect i find that hard to believe. But none of that changes fact that its a good, solid pipe and i never said otherwise. Just a little expensive to me. | ||
| Gonen60 |
john250...you should talk to Kevin sometime. He has done all the R&D and does all the welding and fabricating on the Drummer. If He and Brian says it takes six hours, you can bet it does. These are two honest guys that have no reason to lie what so ever. | ||
| Hootowl |
I believe that D&D did not design the pipe/exhaust, rather it was designed by the guys at Buell of Dallas, and built by D&D of Forth Worth. Buell of Dallas sponsored the first Thrills in the Hills event here in TX a few years ago, and they brought an X1 with an LRIP pipe on it. That may explain why the D&D for the XB platform isn't quite up to snuff. | ||
| Lpd22 |
Curious about the Drummer pipe. Never heard of it. Is there a web site or something i can go check them out at? I know the Force is loud and pricey, but would you say the Drummer would be the loudest cheapest pipe out there. Cause I'm looking for a pipe that has quality performance, ear rattling sound, and a price tag that won't empty my wallet.(Is that not what everyone would want) Do they make such a beast? Sorry if this subject has been beaten down before. If so tell which archive so I can do some research. Thanks a lot for your help. | ||
| M1combat |
From what I hear the Drummer is not as loud as the D&D, but seems to perform better. Take a look in the KV for Drummer info. | ||
| Dyna |
There is no reason for it to be priced at $595 all I am doing is looking for answer Im going to turn this around on you a bit & tell you why they charge $595. Its because they can & because the sheep will buy it. Remember how we had this conversation & I asked the question on why the XB was so pricey compared to its competition & why did it cost so much? You & Dave both said it basically was because thats what the market would pay. There is no logical reason any pipe..even a Force should cost that much. Hell I can buy 2 sets of Vance & Hines drag pipes for the price of 1 D&D. There is also no logical reason an XB12 costs just shy of $11K. It just does & thats that. | ||
| Jasonblue |
I have had my D&D for about 3 months now, and I paid around 550 for it with a Bad Web discount from Dave in Iowa, and I can honestly say it was worth every freakin cent! I get the biggest shit eatin grin everytime I fire it up. When my wife first heard it she said "Damn, now it sounds like some kind of hot rod" Yeah buddy! I installed it with the race ecm and filter and talk about waking the bike up, big performance differance. Yes I am one of those guys who wants that hit in the mid range. The debate about the D&D or Drummer has been going on for a while, and it all comes down to what you want. I like the things I put on my bike to have a certain look, and to me the D&D looks much better with the dual tips and excellent fabrication. I wanted my bike to be loud, and the D&D is louder than the Drummer. I don't race so I don't really care about the "whole torque curve". Well lets just say I don't care about the little bit that the Drummer offers in other areas of the curve. As far as cost goes, like I said worth every cent. What about the force kits at over a grand that keep breaking on every one. I bet those sheep aren't too happy. Its all relative to what you can afford. Is $200,000.00 too much for a car? Absolutely, but I'd be singing a different tune if I won the lottery. Scenerio: Two XB9s lined up, one with the Drummer, one with the D&D. Hell you could even add a Latus and a Wileyco. Bet nobody blows the others off the road, actually the differances will probably be quite minute. Thats my thoughts, good luck. | ||
| Dyna |
I don't race so I don't really care about the "whole torque curve". Well lets just say I don't care about the little bit that the Drummer offers in other areas of the curve. Far too many people are caught up in the whole bragging rights deal where every single last ounce of hp must be extracted even tho in the practical world they cant even utilize what their bike put out totally stock & very very few could tell a difference in a loss of 1-2 ft lbs in any area. Some folks prefer hamburger to steak, its all personal preference. | ||
| Johncr250 |
tell you why they charge $595. Its because they can & because the sheep will buy it Your absolutely right Dyna, but just cause a pipe costs alot doesn`t mean its the best. Look at the Force pipe, What $1200 or something and the thing breaks. If you lined XB`s up with D&D, DRUMMER, Latus,Wileyco, or whatever muffler the performance overall would be very close. Buy the pipe you like and can afford and lets go tear up the streets!!!} | ||
| Dyna |
If you lined XB`s up with D&D, DRUMMER, Latus,Wileyco, or whatever muffler the performance overall would be very close. Buy the pipe you like and can afford and lets go tear up the streets!!! } Damn straight!! I think its ridiculous to argue the small points of 1-2 hp or 2-3 ft lbs. Buy what tickles your fancy & if someone else doesnt like your choice...so what? | ||
| Gonen60 |
Damn straight!! I think its ridiculous to argue the small points of 1-2 hp or 2-3 ft lbs. Buy what tickles your fancy & if someone else doesnt like your choice...so what? What the Hell ! Dyna and I agree. unless your talking about a racing situation, sound and looks is what I am after. Of course I want it to run well. My Buell race pipe runs great, I just want it louder. | ||
| Johncr250 |
Lets all hold hands!!! |
