| Author | Message | ||
     Swamp2 |
Ok, I always was interested in Buell's but never got serious about buying until I heard they were being shut down. Bought a black 1125cr for a good price, and then got hooked. I love the bike, but it got me thinking that at some time, I'd like to have a more "traditional" Buell (e.g. HD derived engine) as well. Realizing my opportunities to get a new one are coming to a close, I began shopping to see how good of a deal I could get. My preferred model would be an xb12ss. But, in shopping, I've found that the best price I can find w/in a reasonable radius is about $6900 plus t&t. This isn't cheap enough to make me buy now rather than wait for a good deal used later. But, I have found dealers with "new" xb12stt's that are enough cheaper (as much as $1500) to make me think hard about pulling the trigger. Given that the ss now has the stt suspension - are the other differences in the model and various upgrades worth the difference? Frankly, I kind of like the "uniqueness" of the stt and ease in modding the parts I'm not so keen about (probably removing the number plates and putting a low fender on). Like I say, I won't buy new at the current ss prices, but - are the upgrades between 07 and 09, plus being 2 years newer - such that I should wait and buy an '09 used? Thanks for your opinions... | ||
| Froggy |
08 was a big year of changes to the bikes. Half of the motor is new, the fuel injection system was upgraded, and they got rid of several weak links in the XB's. Unless you got a killer deal on the 07, I would hold out for a 08 or 09. | ||
| Dio |
One benefit of the '07 is ecm tuneability with ECM spy. Don't know how much this would interest you. | ||
| Ourdee |
Test ride an XB. It is a different animal than the 1125. | ||
| Froggy |
There are other options for the newer bikes. | ||
| Newxb12ss |
Depends on how much bike you think you need as far as the development. Significant oiling system changes, 8-piston front caliper, larger crank pin, higher red-line, larger oil-cooler, improved ECM/EFI, these put me into an '09. If I could have latched onto a '10 I would have preferred to have it's dual O2 sensors as well. I think $6,900 is a virtual fire-sale for a new machine that went for about $10,000 before the big crash. Just try pricing a new engine assembly all by itself. (Message edited by newxb12Ss on January 06, 2010) | ||
| Boney95 |
If $6900 is too much for you, for a brand new XB, you don't deserve the bike, and the bike doesn't deserve you. It pisses me off with all these people buying a Buell, only because of the slashed prices. An 09 is worth a hell of a lot more than $6900. Had to vent a bit. | ||
| Swamp2 |
Well, it's not so much that it's too much for a brand new XB, it's just that it's too much right RIGHT NOW having just bought a new bike less than 3 montha ago... Have to draw the line somewhere. | ||
| Aks12r |
07 has bigger headers ideally an 09 bike with headers swapped out and the 07 air box. are there new options for tuning the 09 ecm? | ||
| 1324 |
If you need/want an air-cooled Buell and can't afford a new bike, just buy used. The 08 differences are nice, but plenty of us (read most) have older models with good success. The plus side of the older models is that you'll save more money still. Prices on the XB's have tanked over the last few months. I've seen some XB's selling for half of what they were selling for a little over a year ago. YMMV. | ||
| Froggy |
Not on US models. | ||
| Brightbuell |
i would not get to comfy with the idea that buell prices will continue to drop. I believe used buell prices will excede new buell prices a few years from now, when all buells are used. There probly less then 120000 left on the planet. In one week I have learned about two friends on another board who totaled thier bikes. So the # of exsiting buells continues to drop every day. I would buy the 09 if there was any way possible. Check out this link, these are all thats left at all HD dealerships. 1168 as of today. http://www.buell.com/en_us/tools/find-a-bike/index .asp (Message edited by brightbuell on January 07, 2010) (Message edited by brightbuell on January 07, 2010) | ||
| 1324 |
There are a lot of non-Buellers who are buying now due to the fire sale (who can blame them) only. The fact they get a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty is like icing on the cake. So, yeah, these low used prices are caused by three things mainly: recession, winter, and Buell closure. Prices may very well climb after the new bikes are bought. MAY. But what happens when the new warranties are up? Do you really think all these new owners will stick by the deceased brand? Aside from those of us who have been around a while, I'm not so certain. Aging bikes with limited factory support and diminishing aftermarket support can't possibly be worth small fortunes in my eyes. The ONLY thing we know now is that prices are at an all time low for new and used bikes. If you're buying, great. If you're selling...well, talk to any of the 1125 owners who paid MSRP to see how they feel. Bottom line is no one knows for sure; a lot depends on the economy, the public's perception of HD come bill collection time, etc. I still stand by my original position. The new bikes have some really great improvements, but if you can't afford it, buy used. The bikes are similar enough that all buy the savviest Buell enthusiasts won't know the difference, and its nice to not over-extend yourself financially. Again, just my $0.02. | ||
| Swamp2 |
I haven't been around Buell's for long, although have always been intrigued by them. I have a variety of old, obsolete bikes (ranging back to '56 Triumph) and in the 40 or so bikes I've owned over the years, my 1125CR is only the second new bike I've purchased. Expired warranties don't scare me at all. But with that said - if the "improvements" in the later models were only around for a couple years, I wonder if having a little older model might be preferrable looking out longer term - if there were more bikes built to a common configuration. | ||
| 1324 |
I don't know production numbers of the 1125's, but I'd guess there are more 'new configurations' out there. The changes applied to 09-10 which had the R and CR. 08 only had the R. My 09 R seemed solid, but I only owned it for 1100 miles. Who knows what tomorrow holds... | ||
| Froggy |
1125R™ MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2008-2010 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 5,836 HORSEPOWER @ RPM 146 @ 9800 TORQUE (FT-LBS) @ RPM 82 @ 8000 DISPLACEMENT 1125 1125CR™ MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2009-2010 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 3,099 HORSEPOWER@RPM 146 @ 9800 TORQUE (FT-LBS) @ RPM 82 @ 8000 DISPLACEMENT 1125 | ||
| 1324 |
Good info. How many R's were produced in 08? | ||
| Swamp2 |
I don't know production numbers of the 1125's, but I'd guess there are more 'new configurations' out there. The changes applied to 09-10 which had the R and CR. 08 only had the R. The production numbers of the 1125's are interesting to see - I was wondering about that (thanks Froggy!). But actually I was referring to the XB's. Looking longer term and being used to servicing bikes myself with bits often purchased on ebay - if there are a relatively small number of '08-'10 config XB's compared to '03-'07's - the earlier bikes might be better from a long term maintenance perspective. As has been noted, bikes get crashed, parted out, etc - and if there's a lot more earlier bikes this will happen to, well... | ||
| 1324 |
Ah, I must have misunderstood. I agree with that. | ||
| Froggy |
Unfortunatally I don't have the breakdowns of years, but here is the grand totals FIREBOLTŪ XB9R MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2003-2007 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 7,491 HORSEPOWER@RPM 92@7500 TORQUE (FT-LBS)@RPM 68@5500 DISPLACEMENT 984 LIGHTNINGŪ XB12S MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2004-2008 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 10,852 HORSEPOWER@RPM 103@6800 TORQUE (FT-LBS)@RPM 84@6000 DISPLACEMENT 1203 LIGHTNINGŪ XB9S MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2003-2004 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 4,332 HORSEPOWER@RPM 92@7500 TORQUE (FT-LBS)@RPM 68@5500 DISPLACEMENT 984 LIGHTNINGŪ XB12SCG MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2005-2010 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 5,561 HORSEPOWER@RPM 103@6800 TORQUE (FT-LBS)@RPM 84@6000 DISPLACEMENT 1203 LIGHTNINGŪ LONG XB12SS MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2006-2010 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 7,013 HORSEPOWER@RPM 103@6800 TORQUE (FT-LBS)@RPM 84@6000 DISPLACEMENT 1203 ULYSSESŪ XB12X MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2006-2010 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 7,432 HORSEPOWER@RPM 103@6800 TORQUE (FT-LBS)@RPM 84@6000 DISPLACEMENT 1203 LIGHTNINGŪ CITY X XB9SX MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2005-2010 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 9,632 HORSEPOWER@RPM 92@7500 TORQUE (FT-LBS)@RPM 70@5500 DISPLACEMENT 984 XBRR MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2007 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 56 HORSEPOWER@RPM 150RW@8000 TORQUE (FT-LBS)@RPM 100@6400 DISPLACEMENT 1338 07 FIREBOLTŪ XB12R MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2004-2010 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 10,408 HORSEPOWER@RPM 103@6800 TORQUE (FT-LBS)@RPM 84@6000 DISPLACEMENT 1203 LIGHTNINGŪ LOW XB9SL MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2003-2004 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 1,513 HORSEPOWER@RPM 92@7500 TORQUE (FT-LBS)@RPM 68@5500 DISPLACEMENT 984 ULYSSESŪ XB12XT MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2008-2010 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 1,911 HORSEPOWER@RPM 103@6800 TORQUE (FT-LBS)@RPM 84@6000 DISPLACEMENT 1203 LIGHTNINGŪ SUPER TT XB12STT MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2007-2008 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 1,755 HORSEPOWER@RPM 103@6800 TORQUE (FT-LBS)@RPM 84@6000 DISPLACEMENT 1203 LIGHTNINGŪ CITY X XB12SX 09 MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2010 (EU ONLY) APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 860 HORSEPOWER@RPM 103@6800 TORQUE (FT-LBS)@RPM 84@6000 DISPLACEMENT 1203 ULYSSESŪ XB12XP MODEL YEARS PRODUCED 2009-2010 APPROX. NUMBER BUILT 137 HORSEPOWER@RPM 103@6800 TORQUE (FT-LBS)@RPM 84@6000 DISPLACEMENT 1203 | ||
| Swamp2 |
By the way, I agree completely with 1324 that the value of Buell's will go up over time. I wouldn't be thinking of buying another new one now if that weren't the case - I have to admit, 1 brand new bike a year should be enough. But I think the deals are irrefutably good now and the opportunities to purchase a new one are becoming extinct rapidly. I'm sorry if my status as a (previously) non-Bueller and taking advantage of the opportunity is bothersome to some - I guess I can understand the perspective. But, I have been an avid motorcylist and rider of old, different stuff for decades (no particular brand - old triumphs, bmw's, oldish jap stuff, moto guzzi's, etc) so the attraction to Buell's now really isn't out of character. Heck, I still have a '75 Sportster, so it can't be argued I don't respect the XB's roots... | ||
| 46champ |
So does this get our grand total to date of bikes produced. 68935 XB's 8938 1125's 35915 tube frame 418 Buell motor Co 22785 Blasts _____ 137009 Total | ||
| Swamp2 |
Ok, I'm sorry to beat this to death, but... Is there really any real world advantage associated with the '08+ upgrades? I've been reading a lot of posts on this and other forums. Other than the auto-TPS reset with the newer model (easily fixed with a $45 cable/ECMSpy) what's significant? Do the 8 piston brakes work noticeably better? Given the power output isn't any different, does the higher redline mean anything? Are the smaller diameter crankpins a source of problems? Is the oil pump a source of problems on pre-08 bikes? Do the bikes run better/smoother with the new FI and sensors? I've yet to see anything that suggests any of these are a big deal that would justify a 25% price delta between a new 07 and new 09 - that suggest the later models are significantly better in any way - other than they have "improvements". Sorry to be anal about this. It's just the way I am. | ||
| Bikelit |
Ride your bikes hard? Oiling has always been a weak link on Harley motors, although it's usually lack of maintenance as much as anything. Look at the size of the XBRR based oil pump on the newer models. That alone is a big improvement over the older years. I wouldn't put too much into the ECMspy thing as all years will be easily be tuneable in due time. | ||
| Froggy |
You are not being anal, they are good questions. The newer bikes do ride much smoother, in fact due to the changes many riders say they feel slower than the old models because of the smoother transitions through the power band. The 2010 models have dual O2 sensors to help fueling even more. About the oil pumps, yes it was an issue mostly on the older models. Buell improved the pump and gears over the years, and the 07 setup is retrofitable into older years. The 08's introduced the totally new oiling system. Either way you can't go wrong, but the 07's don't come with the sexy black frames and forks  | ||
| Swamp2 |
Yeah, the oiling system on my '75 XLH was problematic. I checked the oil level one night and evidently didn't get the cap on the tank screwed on properly. By the end of my 20 mile commute to work the next day, most of the oil had pumped it's way out of the tank rather than through the filter back into the tank. The bike got rather lethargic as it started to seize as I neared my workplace. Nothing a bore job and OS pistons couldn't fix, but any oiling system that can't compensate for an idiot owner is obviously a weak link! | ||
| Bikelit |
How did the back of your leg look? 40 years of HD has left me a bit touchy on motor oiling. The last decade or so has brought many improvements, but keeping your oil full and fresh is clearly more important than anything else. My 6 piston brakes seem plenty strong to me..... | ||
| Hemicbx |
Swamp2, I was in the exact same position last year. I wanted a new Buell, the shop had an 07 that I really liked and I knew about the 08 changes. Certainly I like the sound of the revisions to the 08 bikes and even more I like the 10 changes. However, the bike the shop had the bike that I liked and it was an 07. Real world worth it? Not in my humble opinion. In 07 when they upgraded the oil pump system, everybody was all happy about that improvement. In 08 they redesigned it. That redesign did not make the 07 system and less of an improvement or any weaker. There are thousands of Buells and XL's out there with the old system running fine every day. The larger crankpin sounds great, but in my daily riding will it show up at all? Sure it's probably stronger, but I'm not running a 13:1 motor on the track. I'm street riding. I do like the idea of the ZTL2. I wish I had that; someday maybe I'll upgrade. The better resolution EFI system is certainly a good thing, but you've read the boards. Not everyone's in love with it. Bottom line: Are the '07 Buells good bikes that will serve you VERY WELL? YES. Mine does everything I ask of it every day. It's a great bike! | ||
| 1324 |
Concerning the brakes, the ZTL2 is a large improvement over the ZTL1 IN MY OPINION. Going back and forth between my 1125R and my XB12S was night and day. Suffice it to say that since I've sold my 1125, I've ordered the brake parts to do the swap. Necessary? No. I've done track days on both (more laps with ZTL1), but I REALLY prefer the upgrade. As far as oiling goes, you stand to do just fine with the old design. IF the previous owner took care of the engine and never ran it low on oil and rode responsibly, AND you do the same, you should be fine. The majority of XB's are the 'older' designs and they work just fine. If you are racing and building the engine, then you should consider the upgraded oiling system. Of course, these IF's and AND's I mention are subject to concern with ANY used bike. Personally, the oiling system isn't a concern to me. If I rebuild my 05 at some point, I'll just use the 07 parts. Realistically, I'll probably stick to the ubiquitous Japanese sportbikes for track flogging, anyway. YMMV, though. | ||
| Swamp2 |
Well, not that anybody asked - but after mentally chewing on this for weeks, calling countless dealers - I finally broke down and put a deposit on a new '09 Cherry Bomb XB12Ss. In the end the difference in price between that and the new '07 STT was $1200 (6800 vs 5600) so figured between 2 years newer, and all the upgrades, it was worth it. With that said, I embarked on this whole exercise looking to find the rumored "< $5k Firebolts" that the Motorcyclist "Smart Money" column from January referred to. From what I could tell, that may have been true right after the announcement, but it ain't no more... |
