"Would" is pretty bleak I assume. But, could he? Is there anything in the way that could stop something of the sort from happening?
Erik could build a motorcycle for them if they wanted to invest resources in that direction. A true marketing expert may be able to better tell the projected success of Ford or GM building a bike and selling it to the buying public.
But Buell would at worst pick up where it left off and that's building bikes we all loved. GM and Ford have a lot more capital that HD so their marketing and showroom traffic could only help.
what I meant was that American companies don't like to put all their divisions under one umbrella name. They like to have divisions which are run as individual and answer to the mother company. In Japan, it's funny because Mitsubishi makes jets, ships, cars, air/conditioning, home appliances, small consumer electronics, and wood pencils, yes... #2 pencils. All marketed under the name Mitsubishi. That doesn't happen here.
Since I work at a Ford dealer I like to hear the positive comments about Ford. Lots of people come in and state the reason they bought a Ford was bc they haven't taken bailout money.
Court, replacing the M-B with a Ford sounds like a great idea. I was also impressed with the new quality results. Not suprised...impressed. Don't know if you've seen the new Taurus but wow...never thought I'd say this in a million years but...the new Taurus is a really nice car. If you're in the market for an SUV or crossover the Flex is an incredibly comfortable, roomy ride, although a bit underpowered.
You guys forget so fast. Do you remember the EV1, GM pioneered the electric vehicle long time before Toyota. The program was canned because it was ahead of its time, and people (yes you and I and others) wanted the big SUV an we did not want to give up our comfort. You don't want to do business with GM because they got a loan from the Government, then you should stop dealing with banks. Remember GM DID NOT GET A BAILOUT, they got a loan that they will repay. Out of all the companies that got a loan to whether this downturn, GM has been the most careful with it. We all took a pay cut to do our part. GM and all the other U.S OEMs never competed on fair grounds with the imports and some of that had to do with labor cost, retiree cost... US car makers (mainly GM and Ford) have produced amazing quality products for the last 5 years, and now it is amazing. My recommendation for you, is go drive a Cadillac CTS, or a Buick Lacrosse and see for yourself. The Ford taurus is a nice car, but if you are like me (and I am sure you are since you drove a MB) you probably like the driving dynamics of a RWD. The Fords are FWD and will never drive like a CTS when driven in a spirited way (Ford killed its Family RWD program). Yes go get the Ford Taurus or the Buick Lacrosse if you really want a FWD (for your wife maybe). The U.S consumers need to start acting with a sense of patriotism (I say that and I am originally from France). We are loosing the manufacturing power we use to have, a lot of our intellectual properties are shipped overseas to India/China because of the cheap labor....we are shooting ourselves in the foot. Do you think any young kids going through college would pick an engineering field after we have shown them what we do with American jobs (ship them to India). This country will not produce Engineers for a long time.....scary thoughts. Go drive and buy a GM product, because they are phenomenal and don't spread any false rumors about bailout. We were given a loan that we plan to pay back fully with interest. How many more American icons do we need to lose, how many more unemployed people do we need to put in the streets, and you think this will not impact you at some point??? Have you checked your home resale value lately? Go buy GM!
GM can't run a car company with out making a mess of it. Why would Erik (he a smart guy remember) want anything to do with THAT screwed up mess?
H-D closed Buell and is selling MV. GM shut the door on Olds, Saturn, Pontiac, And is trying to sell Hummer as we speak. to China! Would you want to start a bike company with them?
Twinv, Maybe not the best place for this discussion, but I have been a loyal GM owner my whole life. I have owned 2 fords, but also 5 GM's. Until this last lemon I bought. Not because I don't like the product, but because in the 17 times it has been back for a warranty issue that is still to this day not resolved... GM and there customer service program has offered me NOTHING! I understand that shit happens. But when you can't fix a persons car right that they spend $40,000 on within the first 5 times and 15,000 miles... shouldn't it be replaced or bought back! All I was able to get was $5000 stinking bucks!
I'll still by american nothing else, but probably a Ford next since GM wouldn't do anything with the 17 cases I have had with them.
Snackbar64, As much as I would love the idea, GM right now has one focus: to become solvable. Acquiring a company right now may not be on GM's plan. We reduced our over head, we downsized and now are focusing on the core brands, I don't see it (Hopefully I am wrong). Ford could be in a better situation. Ford before the economy took a dive mortgaged everything they owned, even the oval sign for cash. Their timing was impeccable. I can see them being in a better position for doing that, but again in the eye of the public, such a move would get criticized.
Hotdog271, There are laws to govern situation like that. And you are right, things like that happen, they happen with Mercedes Benz, with BMW....it's the nature of manufacturing and outsourcing components and subsystems.....it just sucks when it happens to you. Is it too late to get some additional background from you on this issue? And you are right, we should probably take that offline before we officially turn into highjackers....can members pm each others here?? If yes pm me.
You guys forget so fast. Do you remember the EV1, GM pioneered the electric vehicle long time before Toyota. The program was canned because it was ahead of its time, and people (yes you and I and others) wanted the big SUV an we did not want to give up our comfort.
Holy crap! Facts!
quote:
In your opinion how difficult would it be for a company like GM to take on a motorcycle if Erik was at the Helm?
I don't think its in GM's best interest currently to invest in motorcycles. After the economy recovers? I don't know. Would be interesting to say the least.
GM is not in a position to buy ANYTHING and, at this time, GM has no (or very little) say in matter.
quote:
General Motors' sales fell 45 percent compared with a year ago, and Chrysler's dropped 42 percent. Sales at Ford did comparatively better, declining just 5 percent.
Until they get off the tit they are OWNED. Wages are set and direction is at the behest of the "Car Czar" . . who just happened to be a student who'd never worked in the industry.
When do you think GM will pay back the "loan" and the interest? Will they pay back the entire loan or just the portion dismissed in bankruptcy?
Making profit in motorcycle industry is, as in any other business, more about promotion, distribution and service than in production itself. I do not want to minimize the importance of a well designed, cost conscious product, but that is less than 50% of the good business. I had an experience with a brewery built in my country with local money and German knowledge. The German brewmaster put up a plant with little money and obtained a top quality beer. He told the owners: '-My family is into this business for 200 years and I'm telling you, there are many who can produce outstanding quality beer but only a few who know how to sell it. You need my knowledge more for selling than for producing it.' The owners said 'no.' and the business went bankrupt in less than three years. The German was right, it was more about cash flow, empty bottles coming back home, money coming back home, optimum stock than in the quality of the beer. Buell is gone not because of lack of quality of it's products but because of bad distribution and management of resources. The only way to put Buell back on wheels would be to find the manager (person or company) able to find ways to promote it's bikes on proper channels with proper advertising and service. Being sold among H-D was never a winning idea, as clients H-D addresses are totally different to those of Buell. I would rather see, at least in Europe, Buell mixed with Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki at multiple brand dealers than in H-D showrooms.
If an automotive company were to get into bed with Buell it had better be Ford. Ford has been "sleeping" around since the 50s. Be it selling or buying. My 66 Morgan came stock with a Ford 1500cc engine and transmission from a British Cortina(Fords successful international presents is ripe for a seperate thread). Last winter I put a Cosworth 1700cc engine in the car that Ford had designed and built for the 1970 Escort RS(sort of like a Subaru WRX STI in todays market). Meanwhile Ford was shipping engines and all sorts of other stuff for and to some guy named Caroll Shelby, Who ever he was
So, If Ford wanted I would think they could make it happen.
In my opionion...My money will be spent on the cars I feel are the best for MY money. I drive a Subaru Imprezea, and before that a VW Jetta. I dont think that there is anything built in America, or Canada, that compares.
Leo
(Message edited by Snakedriver on October 31, 2009)
(Message edited by Snakedriver on October 31, 2009)
Snakedriver: you're wrong about domestics but that would be a digression.
History shows that any of the big three can do a rapid retool and changeover if they had to. In '42, under gov't orders, they did just that to build identical military vehicles.
Whatever your politics behind the bailout, it's a loan guarantee. Chrysler paid back their 7 year plan in 1 year in the '70s. Nothing new there, except there's nobody like Iacocca in charge today. Don't need it, don't take it.
Court's right, you owe, you're under lien, you can't make these kinds of decisions. And the current philosophy doesn't want to.
Tik: the age of advertising to push bad products is over. People can't afford crap and are not prepared to put up with it. The internet communications overrides '50s type marketing. That's why HD is in trouble:they're selling a lifestyle, we're buying bikes, we already have lives. Buell couldn't buy better promo than they have here. HD couldn't deliver.
Very cool that just as GM looks like they are going to default on an $81,000,000,0000loan. . . . . that Ford has a $1,000,000,000 PROFIT for the quarter.
I . . . like John Corzine . . . sure hope Obama never decides to help me.
The UAW just never learns. Give back now and the company and workers will benefit in the future. Unions still seem to have that 1920 view of the world.
A few years back the steel mills in NW Indiana were trying to get worker concessions to stay out of bankruptcy. No concessions, the mill close and people lose their jobs. Companies are purchased and the workers are hired back for a fraction of their original pay.
Nobuell, the union has made several concessions over the last few years, but the damage was already done and then the rug got pulled out from under everyone when the economy took a dump.
Not according to the referenced WSJ article regarding Ford. I have no problems with unions as long as the will read the writing on the wall and adjust accordingly. The trade unions in the Chicago area negotiated contracts with over $3.00 / hr. increases every year for the past 6 years. How many out there have received over 10% increases every year for 6 years?
This is the last year of the contracts. They were waiting for the Olympics in Chicago to really push up the rates since negotiations are this year. Unfortunately 50% of the tradesmen are out of work due to the current conditions but I bet they end up with a big raise regardless.
There are very few pipe fabrication shops in the Chicago area as a result. Most pipe is now fabricated in the south. Sounds a lot like the steel mill story of my last post.
