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Doubled
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 11:17 pm: | 
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Last time I checked a certification was required to operate ANY motor vehicle over 50cc or capable of going faster than 30MPH (at least in all of the states I have lived) on public right of way. Regardless of whether or not dude had an endorsement, he should have known that the bike was too much for him and maybe he should trailer it out to an empty parking lot, or a backroad with very little traffic on it, or one of a million other places that would have been safer than the side of the interstate.
Like many others have said, it all comes down to personal responsibility. If I am doing something, anything, that exceeds my abilities and get hurt while performing said act, I should be the only one to blame for it, no?
As for other people getting hurt in the process of my stupidity, that is why we have insurance, is it not? Had he not had enough insurance to cover medical costs to involved parties and damages to their property, there are other avenues to follow. Such as legal action against the guy (or his estate), talk to your own insurance, etc.
The ONLY reason I see for going after the dealership (even though I agree that any salesman with a conscience would not have sold a large bike to an inexperienced rider) is if something on the machine was improperly set up, causing the loss of control. Likewise for the manufacturer.
We as a country, heck, as a world, need to stop with the litigious society crap. All it does is make things more expensive and make lawyers really, really, stinking @ss rich!!!
/end rant |
Sloppy
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 11:19 pm: |
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Since when is it the government's job to prevent an accident??? If anyone thinks it's the governments job to keep you safe then that's a first step towards Socialism folks... a VERY scary thought (as is Socialist Obama-Healthcare, but that's a different thread). And that's the price of freedom - you need to held accountable for your own actions.
If you're dumb enough to live in a flood zone and don't take measures such as food and water provisions (or perhaps a boat) then tough. Why should the government help you?
The government can require you to have a license in order to fly in it's air space (I assume the FAA position is that the air is their property), BUT if a plane falls out of the sky due to pilot error, are we supposed to blame the FAA for that???
This guy likely has an M1 certification and he wants to try out the bike, the sales guy says you got your cert so I'll let you try it. The guy screws up and almost kills himself and other bystanders. If we want to blame the sales guy then GOODBYE demo rides! GOODBYE test drives. Hey, why stop at bikes, let's go for cars as well!
It's very simple - if you screw up, then YOU should pay. If you CAN'T pay, then DON'T SCREW UP! As I tell my kids, if you're going to be dumb enough to do something dangerous, then be smart enough that you won't get hurt.
Government needs to step out of our lives and get back to running the country. You remember what Congress was doing when the GOVERNMENT backed mortgage crises was happening - I do; they were ARGUING over steroid use in baseball... kind of sad, isn't it...
I guess it comes down to philosophy of government. If you want more government control then you lean towards Socialism. If you want citizens to handle their own affairs then you lean towards Libertarianism. One is for "no fault" and the other is for "personal responsibility". Neither is right or wrong.
And just because no one agrees with you doesn't mean you should leave the party! We are here to share knowledge and not convince someone that they are right or wrong. I always learn something from someone who has a different point of view... |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 11:43 pm: |
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I would have made sure he was ok then kicked him in the nuts for adding to the bad rap we get as riders Freekin braindead asstard |
Zatco81
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 08:54 am: |
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A pilot is certificated under the authority of Parts 61 and 141 of Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations, also known as the Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs).
George W. been updating Wikipedia again??? |
Vito
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 10:47 pm: |
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If it was a test ride-the dealer blew it. If it was a purchase-then it is the riders responsibility. |
Pogue_mahone
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 11:11 pm: |
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that distinct lack of community of riders is obvious here.we have all heard the many many stories of new riders self destructing on the first day,first ride.
instead of espousing your freedoms,and how it is not the government's job,where are the members of the community to reach out to new riders.
anyone ever been an ambassador to the new riders? ever chat with one while he window shops and browses the bikes he thinks he wants?
so step up and help--the worst you can do is mistake an experienced rider for a noob.someone might thank you for saving their mom or dad someday.
so all the emotional BS aside in this thread---do something helpful and stop crying about rights and other's responsibility. |
Thatman
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 12:00 am: |
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Yep, I have, just got one through the safety course for new riders. It’s called training wheels. I even went out and helped him buy his first bike. We opted on a used bike because if he is anything like me within 6 months he will be ready for a buell. |
Sloppy
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 12:27 pm: |
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The problem here is why would responsibility be shared with anyone other than the person who made the mistake? We have all EMPATHIZED with the situation and recognize the pain that it has caused. BUT, we also recognize that the rider made a FREE CHOICE. The rider was NEVER FORCED into the action.
If you WANT the RIGHT to FREE CHOICE, then you need take RESPONSIBILITY for YOUR OWN ACTIONS.
Say a person, who with all reasonable assertion is capable and legally able to drive, test drives a car and has an accident that is the driver's fault. Would the DEALER, SALESPERSON, MANUFACTURER, CITY, COUNTY, STATE, etc be responsible for the accident?
Of course not - but I still feel "sorry" for the victims, including the driver.
Likewise why wouldn't you feel "sorry" for the people who had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACCIDENT if they got sued???
If you have the RIGHT to do something then you also carry the RESPONSIBILITY for your actions. THAT is the difference between an ADULT and a CHILD! Likewise, do you want the Government to treat you like an ADULT or the CHILD?
Regretably citizens turn to the Government to "take care of them" because they want to be treated like a CHILD... |
Zatco81
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 12:47 pm: |
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Say a person, who with all reasonable assertion is capable and legally able to drive, test drives a car and has an accident that is the driver's fault.
Did said dealer obtain a copy of the driver's license to operate said car on said test drive? If a 16 year old kid walked into a dealer without a license and the salesman assumed he was old enough to drive and let him take a car out and he wrecked it, who's fault would that be? I'm all for taking responsibility for your actions and that includes the rider and the person allowing him to ride. |
Sloppy
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 04:13 pm: |
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In this example it was an adult. A 16 year old is not an adult and therefore not fully liable (except in extreme examples) for their actions.
Whenever I've test driven a motorcycle from a dealer I have ALWAYS had to show my license.
Hence, I will use the assumption that this was an adult who had sufficient proof that they could operate a motorcycle...
Hence they should be liable. |
Zatco81
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 04:24 pm: |
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Indeed they should, I just stating that there are procedure that dealers have to follow so they aren't liable...whether or not they followed it... |
Redbuelljunkie
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 06:22 pm: |
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One of the many "freedoms" we enjoy in this great county of ours (that many here seem to be forgetting) is the ability of citizens to hire a personal injury attorney. Any attorney worth his salt is going to go after the largest monetary settlement for his client, and that means pretty much everyone is potentially liable. It may not be palatable to many of us, but it is how the system works- and I don't see it changing. The result is that everyone must be proactive to limit their own exposure to personal liability. Those who do not actively try to limit their exposure are only increasing their chances of being held responsible for the irresponsible actions of others. The two riders who rode after the test rider could have been deemed liable if the situation had turned out differently. Always remember that that justice has nothing to do with the law. |
Pogue_mahone
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 08:39 pm: |
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done. |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 09:25 pm: |
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Oh man I hate lawyers you better hope I never get into power if you are a parasite bloodsucking bag of poop booger eating need to be sodomised by a huge black man in a batman outfit laywer. Cause I will have you honey dipped and fed to fire ants for the 4:00 afternoon movie |
Zatco81
| | Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 08:37 am: |
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I'd buy that for a dollar! |
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