| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
Left work today and it gave a big pause when I hit the starter button, then fired right up. I thought that was odd. Didn't notice anything else until I was slowing down to turn into my driveway when it just sputtered and died. Rolled right up to the garage door where I could see the headlight shining on the door was a dim glow. Tried the starter and just chatter. I had to push all of about 8 feet to it's home (up hill the whole way mind you!). Sure enough ECM Spy tells me only 10.3 volts and has a voltage too low code. Big question now is fix it myself or take it to the dealer under warranty. I have an around Lake Michigan ride planned in a week and a half and my dealer has never gotten my bike back to me that fast. Once for a clutch cable and once for a neutral light switch. I was just wiring up the a GPS to a switched power source yesterday. Seems unlikely that this would be my problem, but will need to be verified first. I just "spliced" into the power to the turn signal flasher with spade terminals. Real easy to undo. I'm not sure if I should scream or laugh because of where it "stranded" me.    | ||
| Sifo |
Got enough charge in the battery to start it up and confirm the obvious. Voltage is below 11 volts even at over 4000 rpm.  | ||
| Hughlysses |
Could be the 77 connector (easy fix) or the stator and/or voltage regulator. Also make sure the battery connections are tight and the battery-to-frame ground is good. | ||
| Sifo |
Battery connections are nice and clean and tight. Actually checked the condition while doing the electrical work Sunday. Still tight today. It's on the charger right now and I thought I would take a look at the infamous 77 connector. Other diagnostics will have to wait until the charge is up. | ||
| Sifo |
And the 77 (the one with 2 big wires right) looks in great condition. | ||
| Firstbatch |
Rule #1: Every electrical problem is a ground problem Rule#2: All other problems are related to the last thing you worked on unless proven otherwise Hesitating starter sounds like the old familiar poor tail grounds that were covered in the TSB | ||
| Ochoa0042 |
sounds like is the voltage regulator or the stator has failed, i have a spare voltage regulator | ||
| Etennuly |
If you do remove the 77 connector, either mark the two black wires that come to it or just do one wire at a time. Someone came up with that problem a few weeks ago. I don't know how it ended. I did mine one at a time. I circumvented the plug and soldered the wires. | ||
| Americanmadexb |
umm i wonder if i should worry about my stator.. mine has been pausing before the startup ever since the first of the spring... granted ive only put about 100 miles on this year so far  so maybe the battery just needs more of a charge, but i kinda wondered about it myself | ||
| Sifo |
Now I'm getting frustrated. The good news is that I've been trying to methodically test things one at a time. Battery passes a back yard load test OK. All the connectors appear to be in good condition. Checks on the stator show it to be good. It's not shorted and put out good AC voltage. Has me thinking regulator at this point. Check battery voltage while running and it's at 12.9 to 13 volts at idle. Rev it a bit and it comes up to a nice 14.5 volts. This all seems very normal. Could it have been a connector that lost contact and is now "fixed"? One last thing I just remembered... About 1/4 leaving work I smelled a very bad burnt plastic smell. I remember thinking to my self "I hope that isn't my bike... Ha ha". The car in front of me turned, the smell went away, and I put it out of my mind. I don't seen anything that looks burnt though. Any thoughts. Rule#2: All other problems are related to the last thing you worked on unless proven otherwise I agree with that. I've double checked my work and everything looks great. Simple jumper with spade connectors to go where the stock wiring powers the turn signal flasher. This powers the GPS through a normal power cable which has a fuse. I took power from here to keep it all up under the fly screen to avoid the frame to fork transition that tends to chafe wires giving electrical problems! If I had a short a fuse should blow either in the GPS cable or in the fuse box. If it were open the GPS and or turn signals would not work, but it shouldn't drain the battery while running. Hesitating starter sounds like the old familiar poor tail grounds that were covered in the TSB Any more info on this problem? TSB??? | ||
| Sifo |
If you do remove the 77 connector, either mark the two black wires that come to it or just do one wire at a time. Someone came up with that problem a few weeks ago. I don't know how it ended. I saw that thread and it was my plan if it looked burnt. Not sure I want to "fix" it yet though. umm i wonder if i should worry about my stator.. mine has been pausing before the startup ever since the first of the spring... That's pretty normal... to a point. Mine was a Abby Normal pause. It fired right away after pushing past the compression stroke, and I rode off. | ||
| Hogs |
Run from the Cure, the Rick Simpson Story What do ya mean by that? I`m sure ya know a battery can show good Voltage, But will not have the Amps of power to run it,also is it possible the battery is weak will take so much of a recharge, enough to get it fired up and go for a ride, but leave it sit for awhile and it dies, or Can`t take the FULL charge of AMPS that it needs.. Just finished the similar thing happened... Battery Started it up ran for a few days, but couldn`t Hold a Charge good. it died, recharged it ok for a few days but same thing happened after sitting for abit, lost it charged, maybe by a weak dead short within the battery who knows.. anyways installed a New battery been good now no problems at all?? Just something to think about.... | ||
| Ochoa0042 |
i'll get some volt readings, yours sound low.. ~edit~ never mind.. off - 12.13v idle - 13.4v 2000 - 13.9v 4000 - 14v-ish (Message edited by ochoa0042 on June 08, 2009) | ||
| Buplaux |
My vote says its the regulator. Mine did the same a while back. Installed new reg and everything is good. Don't know why they fail but it seems it is fairly common. | ||
| Ochoa0042 |
i had replaced my regulator and it turned out to be the stator.. regulaor has to be the first thing to replace | ||
| Sifo |
Ochoa, Thanks for the bench marks. I'll have time to play with it during lunch tomorrow. Meanwhile I'll let it trickle charge overnight to make sure it's fully charged. I did my testing after a fairly short time with a 8 amp charger. One other thing I noticed driving to work... I noticed the idle was hanging a couple hundred rpm higher than normal. Seems I remember reading that can happen with low voltage/bad grounds. Sleep time for me. Let the trickle charger do it's thing. Thanks for the helpful hints - everyone. I'll post more as it unfolds. I'm just glad the stator seems OK.  That was my biggest worry. | ||
| Ourdee |
Rule#2: All other problems are related to the last thing you worked on unless proven otherwise Questions for thought/ Did you disconnect any battery terminals while working on it? Could it need an extra washer under the battery bolt to make a tight connection? | ||
| Sifo |
Trickle charger indicated full charge this AM. I disconnected it and left for work via cage. (Forecast was sunny and 10% chance of rain. Rained all morning!) Last thing I wanted was to be stuck in the rain with a dead bike. Came home for lunch. Hooked up ECMSpy, started logging data and took off for a ride. Here's what I found. Engine off voltage = 12.1 When I cranked the engine the voltage spiked downward to 7.7 volts, but rebounded to about 10.5 for the short duration of cranking it over. For the rest of the 18 minutes of logging the voltage bounced around between 13.7 and 14.6 volts. At Idle it was pretty steady at 14.0 to 14.1 volts. This was all from ECMSpy not the volt meter I tested with yesterday, so calibration may be slightly different. Looks like the charging system is working as it is supposed to. This is very different from my first test yesterday when I got 11 volts at 4000 rpm. Clearly it was not working then. My guess is that I had a connection stop connection (ground/connector/broken wire) that may rear it's ugly head at any time again. Not what I was hoping for. For those with experience with charging systems - Can either the stator or voltage regulator fail then recover like this or are they safely out of the equation for now? Needles to say I'm unsure about getting too far from home right now, much less the trip around Lake Michigan I have planned in 9 days. Damn thing will probably quit 500 feet above Lake Superior in the middle of the Mackinaw Bridge! My to do list right now... 1) Get a real load test done on the battery. 2) Double check all grounds that I can find. 3) Carefully inspect all wires under the sprocket cover. 4) Inspect the #77 connector and add dielectric grease. Same for the stator connector. These looked good initially, but will get a very close inspection. 5) Ride it all I can for the next 9 days before the trip! "Honey, can you get the lawn mowed while I stress test my charging system!  " Any other thoughts would be welcome. BTW: Gentleman_jon gave some great info on the charging system in this thread a while back... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/442480.html#POST1400571 | ||
| Sifo |
Questions for thought/ Did you disconnect any battery terminals while working on it? Could it need an extra washer under the battery bolt to make a tight connection? I can't move the Neg. cable at all by hand. I've actually added some thickness since the battery was installed with the addition of a pigtail for the trickle charger. Something worth double checking though. Part of #2 on my list above! | ||
| Werewulf |
it doesnt matter if you swap wire positions on the 77 connections, no need to mark them.. it sounds like what my roadking did, when the stator magnets gave up the ghost... | ||
| Sifo |
it sounds like what my roadking did, when the stator magnets gave up the ghost... That's NOT what I want to hear! Still charging on the way home today. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Sifo- My 77 connector problem was just barely visible with the naked eye- a tiny burned spot on each lug. The problem manifested as a dead battery and system not charging. I disassembled the plug, polished the metal connections with fine sandpaper, tightened them using needle nose pliers, and then carefully reassembled. No further problems in ~8,000 miles. I also added one of these: http://www.customdynamics.com/LED_battery_gauge.ht m#LED_Battery_Gauge_with_Remote_Flush_Panel_Mount_ LED It's nice to KNOW what your charging system is doing rather than finding out the hard way. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/387583.html | ||
| Sifo |
Thanks for the additional info. I'm thinking the 77 connector is going to get very special attention tomorrow. It just seems likely because after disconnecting the 77 and the stator connector for tests everything worked again upon plugging them back together. I just hate the feeling of not knowing for sure. I know it will be in the back of my mind hundreds of miles from home when I should be enjoying the roads I'm riding. I have had full confidence in this bike for the past 14,000 miles. I can't wait to have that confidence back. We are planning to get lost in KY and TN for a couple of weeks later in the summer and would really be bummed if that trip was marred by a break down that could have been avoided. I can't believe how lucky I was with where this failure happened. | ||
| Rays |
Sifo, having the charging restored by re-seating the regulator connectors is definitely worth having a really close look at the '77' connector. This failure can be really subtle with no outward signs of stress as Hugh as mentioned. No doubt you have seen this 'how to' guide: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=d4rbxwr_20dq5khf&hl= en I would recommend that you extract one male pin at a time and try the fit in the female socket without the distraction of the weather seals. I would also do this one pair at a time to avoid mixing up the positive and negative output wires from the regulator (I think the earlier post about not worrying about the order of the wires was referring to the AC input to the regulator (the '46' connector). If you find one or both of the female sockets slightly 'loose' when inserting the male pin you pretty much have a smoking gun and there should be very small arc marks on the male pin as described by Hugh. When I first encountered this issue (the first time I had to trailer a bike home in many, many years) I looked at all of these connectors by the roadside and of course the deal couldn't fault the charging system. Like you, I didn't trust it and carried a multimeter around with me for 2 weeks and checked the charging state at every start-up. I eventually caught it in the failed mode and reseated one connector at a time which led me to the '77' connector. I have seen this more subtle failure of the '77' connector on 4 different Ulys ('06 and '07) as well as a Lightning ('06). | ||
| Sloppy |
I had a similar problem - turns out it was a bad battery (after 5 years of service I can't complain). I could charge it on my trickle charger overnight, but 8 hours later it would die on me. Checked charging system and it was all good and there were no other indications so I replaced the battery - problem solved. Battery would even hold a surface and load voltage. Replaced the battery and problem went away. Unrelated, but interesting regardless, I had an error code come up that indicated low voltage - after troubleshooting turns out my key switch had an intermittent electrical short... | ||
| Hughlysses |
Here's a link to a very good page on identifying and fixing the 77 connector done by a Badwebber: http://docs.google.com/view?docid=d4rbxwr_20dq5khf | ||
| Sam_07 |
On a side note... why did you splice into the turn signal? The unused wire in your headlight connector is for daytime running lights (europe) and is a perfect 12v source for your gps. I ride an 06 as well. I took off the ground attached to the tail and found the surface was painted and the bolt used was painted@!#$#%@ I cleaned both eyelets and wire brushed the bolt and surface to remove the paint. For giggles i took off both battery terminals and cleaned the eyelets until they were shiney bronze and the side posts to the battery. Now i have NO hesitation at startup. Your battery is coming on 4 years old. Our bikes are very picky about proper voltage. Have it properly load tested at the dealer. If you're under the 2 year warranty its covered! Call Buell customer service if you have a problem with the dealer stating otherwise. | ||
| Sifo |
"Upon further review..." The battery passed a load test. Thanks local Auto Zone! I took the 77 connector apart again at noon and pushed the bike down the drive way into the bright sun light and took a good look. It isn't burnt like some of the pictures, but it wasn't nice and clean either. I could see where this could lead to a connection that would eventually overheat and burn things up. Not an obvious "well there's your problem" moment though. Cleaned up the contacts with some 220 wet/dry paper and stuck it together for now. Rays, Hughlysses, Thanks for the great link on servicing the 77 connector. I will be doing that ASAP. Sam_07, the reason I spliced into the turn signal is simply that I had spade terminals handy and that connected with spade terminals. I wanted a connection that could be easily undone just in case I need to go to the dealer with warranty work on the electrical system. My first thought was the headlight wiring but that would have taken searching for connectors that I didn't have handy to make a plug in kit. I've cleaned up the grounds now real nice and shiny. No more paint on the ground bolts. What is up with that? Actually my battery is only 13 months old. I bought the bike new last spring. After a month we had a cold snap and it wouldn't turn over on a cold morning. Plugged the trickle charger into the pigtail for a while a it started right up. While it was charging I took a look at everything around the battery and the battery itself. The battery was put into service back in '04! How does a NEW '06 bike have a battery from '04?  Off to the dealer for a new battery. Happily they replaced it no problem, but WTF! Come fall when I'm putting the bike to bed for the winter I go to plug the trickle charger into the pigtail. WTF! My pigtail is gone! Sad thing is that I still consider this dealer to be the better of the two dealers nearby.  Thanks to anyone who hasn't been thanked by name. I really appreciate all the help on this problem. I'm not done fixing it yet, but I'm feeling much better about the direction it's heading. I'll follow up with anything new.  | ||
| Sifo |
Connector 77  Thanks for all the help. Took the 77 connector apart tonight and it's burnt up inside. Almost impossible to see until the pin was taken out. It always feels better when you know you found the problem. As long as I've gone Mythbusters...  | ||
| Rays |
Sifo - that is great news. I was very negative about my Uly when I was having these failures but since establishing the root cause I haven't looked back. I have now covered about 74,000km since those dark days and haven't looked back. Get that little stinker tided up and enjoy your northern summer!  | ||
| Sifo |
Great new for me. The new connector arrived this AM via FedEX! Installed the new connector, quick test to make sure it's charging, little test ride. I think I'm good to go for the trip around Lake MI tomorrow AM! The cleaned up connector was already showing signs of scorching again. I'm not sure it would have made it. I'm all packed up and ready to go in the AM!  | ||
| Rocketsprink |
have fun and be safe!! | ||
| Ttr523123 |
Rule #1: Every electrical problem is a ground problem Rule#2: All other problems are related to the last thing you worked on unless proven otherwise } Someone has been speaking with Al at American Sport Bike...Haha} |
