| Author | Message | ||
     Carbide |
Hey all, I have been doing some maintenance on my '03 XB9 and was replacing a stoned belt when I noticed this...   It looks as if the end cap of the roller bearing has come off!! Has anyone else experienced this? I was planning a trip to New Hampshire in a couple weeks, and the belt replacement cost me enough. I really don't want to have to pull the tranny apart! | ||
| Birdy |
Looking at the manual it's hard to tell BUT I wonder if there is anything missing. I'd rather wait for someone else to pop on before I go take my bake apart BUT now I gotta know! Could just be a dust cap for all the book says...nothing. | ||
| Hogs |
WoW new one on me... Sure don`t look good though... Not sure why the Nut has slided out past the main shaft end, But that bearing I can`t see having anything to do with that...Something Striped/broke? New to me,Not having got to tear one of these babies apart...YeT (Message edited by hogs on May 26, 2009) | ||
| Thatman |
In all my days, you should never see exposed bearings. Looks like something is missing… | ||
| Tq_freak |
There is a seal / cap that is suppose to go in the end, some on else lost theirs about a year ago I think. Think it cost like a buck at the dealer | ||
| Garyl |
Tq freak is correct in that you are missing your rubber end cap. But, the end cap presses into a 1/4" deep cavity in the end of the main drive gear. Yours does not have that cavity, due to the fact that your needle bearing/cage assembly has walked out and pushed the cap away. This is NOT good. Happened to me 2 years ago. had to split cases and remove main drive gear from gearbox. Mainshaft was severely scored also. had to be replaced. | ||
| Carbide |
Thanks for the speedy replies. Any idea what may have caused this? I'm going to start disassembly tomorrow, so if anyone has any pointers, please feel free to add. Thanks! | ||
| Ourdee |
Carbide, I hate to kick you while you are down, but, we are going to need pictures of the disassembly and repair. | ||
| Garyl |
This is basically what happened to mine: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=3842&post=198002#POST198002 See "reepicheeps" post & pictures. My mainshaft was fubar where the needles rode on it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Yup, fortunately for me, that was a tuber, so it was a do it yourself type repair (mostly). On the XB's you have to split the cases. On mine, the cages were rusted and more or less gone, and the needle bearings had not been turning for several thousand miles. The shaft was trashed, and now sits on my desk at work. The shaft was under $100, but it was a lot of labor even without splitting the cases. I have a "cheap" craigslist Kawasaki KDX-200 in the garage right now and need to split the cases and remove the shaft for that. Previous owner probably ran a wrong sized sprocket, and certainly ran them too long, so the splines are stripped. Sorry man... no fun. I wonder how much labor is if you pull the motor yourself and bring it to the shop in a truck... | ||
| Reepicheep |
And the "symptom" when that shaft goes bad is that shifting gets lousy, it gets stuck in different gears. You also hear a hooting when the bike is in neutral, and a grinding if you rotate things with the motor off. If that bearing is loose, you might be able to slide it back in, but it is supposed to go in and out with a hydraulic press, so if you can move it, it is likely shot, and if you can't move it, it's in the wrong place. Either way you would be on borrowed time... | ||
| Garyl |
Hey Reep, "hooting" is exactly the noise I had! Mine made it in all gears except 5th. Also did it in nuetral but more faintly. I split my cases and then pressed the main gear out from the big ball bearing. Amazingly, my main drive gear was still in great shape. I only had to press the new needle bearings into it and get a new rubber end cap. The mainshaft was toast though. If I recall, the cost of the mainshaft was just over $100 and the two needle assemblies were about $40 each. Labor was a bear though!! | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Are you sure somebody's not messing with you? I'm looking at the manual. That nut threads onto a shaft. How can the bearing work itself out from the other side and through the threads? | ||
| Id073897 |
I'm looking at the manual. Bin it, it's obviously the wrong one. This is a common error on tubeframers, where belt tension was midsadjusted and too high. The needle bearing is moving outside then and pushes the seal out of place. Get a new seal (part # 12030, $2.10), lean the bike to the right to rinse the bearing and install seal. No need to split cases unless the bearing is worn. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
The bike's an '03 XB. The manual's an '05 R. Part Manual is an '03 R. Bearing is on the inside of the nut and shaft, how does it get to the outside? What am I missing here? | ||
| Garyl |
Iamarchangel, Nobody is messing with him. The manual is VERY clear and detailed on this in the "main drive gear" section of the transmission repair chapter(section 6.9, pages 6-36 thru 6-38) There are photos and cross-sectional diagrams of the gear. It is threaded on its outside diameter and smooth on its inside diameter. The needle bearings PRESS FIT into the I.D. of the gear and then the mainshaft runs on them. If his bearing has left the building, which it clearly has. Theres not much of a chance of shoving it in and hoping that a $2 seal will hold it in place on a v-twin powered motorcycle's most stressed final drive component. A patch job here will certainly lead to more extensive and costly repair shortly. | ||
| Hammer71 |
PM sent | ||
| Carbide |
Thanks again to you all for your insight. I just put on a new drive belt and figure that is what is causing the bearing to walk out. It did seem a bit tight going on, but I figured it must be okay as it is a replacement part and had no idea it would destroy my transmission! I have to say I am very pi$$ed off. This is not the first problem I have had with poor design and manufacture on this bike. Don't get me wrong, I love the bike, but it is getting to the point where I think I'm going to sell it and go back to something Japanese. | ||
| Id073897 |
A patch job here will certainly lead to more extensive and costly repair shortly. Could you please elaborate why and how? | ||
| Buellinator |
Press the bearing back in. Replace the seal. Ride the piss out of it for the next week and if nothing happens, you'll be okay for our trip. If something happens we'll deal with it.  | ||
| Id073897 |
 | ||
| Randomchaos |
Didnt somebody else just have that bearing go out on them after putting on a belt that felt extremely tight going on? | ||
| Garyl |
"A patch job here will certainly lead to more extensive and costly repair shortly. Could you please elaborate why and how?" Sure, Let's consider that he hammers the bearing back into the shaft that it has already slid out of, and throws a new seal over it. Two weeks from now, while on his trip(hundreds of miles from home), the bearing walks out again taking out the seal and then continues out until it falls right out of the main drive gear. These needle bearings are THE thing that supports the transmission mainshaft on the right side of the bike. With no support the mainshaft begins to "rock" or "wobble" in the transmission while riding. The now wobbling mainshaft wears out the shift forks, chips its teeth as it is no longer getting full depth of mesh with the countershaft gears, wallows out the left case bearing and possibly damages the engine case. Sure this is a worst case scenario, but I would not take that chance with my bike! Carbide can do whatever he likes with his bike as can anyone else who likes to gamble. I don't mean to "spook" him, but I'm just trying to make sure he realizes the seriousness of the problem. I could sugarcoat it and say all will be fine, but this was not the case when it happened to my bike. I wish carbide all the luck with whatever he chooses to do, It sucks when this stuff occurs. But ignoring the signs and hoping it will go away ussually doesn't work well. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Garyl- Any reason he couldn't take a blind bearing puller and remove the existing bearing, and then carefully press (or tap) a new bearing into position from the outside? Maybe with a little Locktite bearing retainer on the outside for good measure? THEN install new seal. | ||
| Garyl |
Sure, assuming the mainshaft is fine, and has not incurred any damage yet. My mainshaft was all "galled up" and scored where the needles rode on it. I think that the "play" from the bad mainshaft "journal area" is what allowed the bearing to begin to walk. At the very least, I would remove the bearing all the way and with a penlight I would try to look in between the mainshaft and drive gear to see if the shaft is scored yet. If not, then he would be real lucky! That would be great, because then he could carefully tap in a new needle bearing. And locktite sleeve retainer is a must when installing the new bearing. | ||
| Garyl |
By the way, Ask Scott Patten(spatten1 I think here on the board) about how well his luck went when this happened on his bike. He's got some nice graphic photos of the carnage. | ||
| Hughlysses |
+1 for Garyl's amended recommendation above. It's only slightly more work than just shoving the bearing back in and installing a new seal, and you'll have a much better idea if the fix is going to last before you do it. | ||
| Id073897 |
Why would it be better to pull the bearing and tap in a new one? The mainshaft is still perfectly aligned, how will you ensure that, before tapping in the new bearing? With a canted mainshaft, splitting the case is the only chance to proceed. Why knowingly risk that? Two weeks from now, while on his trip(hundreds of miles from home), the bearing walks out again taking out the seal and then continues out until it falls right out of the main drive gear. It was your argument, that the "press fit" is destroyed, so how will a replaced bearing prevent from the scenario you describe? Will the pressure magically re-appear? Sorry, but a replaced bearing is a typical seems-to-be-better-repair, whithout any real advantage, just more effort and higher risk to fail. All that's required is a suitable tool and a daily check and maybe one or two seals in reserve. But I know these will brought back home again. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Okay, I was confused. I think I've got it now. Still not clear on what that bearing is actually doing. I'll look at again later. Interesting transmission when you walk it all the way through. And, yes, I would now agree with your assessment and cautions. Thanks for your patience. | ||
| Skinstains |
Find a socket with the diameter that matches that of the needle bearings outer race and tap the bearing back in and install your new rubber seal. Done. Keep your eye on it for the first few miles. |
