| Author | Message | ||
     Stuntmanryan |
I have been running 93 and like a lot of people as the bike gets warm it will start to ping... So today i rode the bike for fifty miles to get the gas down a gallon and stopped at my local VP fuels station and got a gallon of 110 octane race fuel and guess what no more pinging and it smells like I'm at the race track when I'm standing next to my bike while it's running and not falling over...however this may get expensive as it's around $7 or $8 ish per gallon... | ||
| Pogue_mahone |
your detonation is a symptom of something else that is the cause. is their any junk in ur intake ducts? fan clogged? fan inop? build up inside ur combustion chambers? do u lug the engine? has anyone used it as a race bike?IE any engine work? like high(er) compression? flat or domed pistons? u really need to address this as it will destroy an engine.and buying race fuel is not the solution.not long term anyways. | ||
| Pogue_mahone |
also oil level.less oil is less cooling ability. any pinched oil cooler lines? compressing the explosion/bucking the flame is very bad.can ruin ur head and pistons and hammer your crankshaft. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Yep, this is a bad thing. High octane is the aspirin, not the cure. It will get real cheap on gas soon and real expensive in parts: you won't have to buy gas because the engine will self-destruct. Pogue Mahone (btw, the only Gaelic I know, tsk tsk) is right on most of his points. Make sure you have clean plugs. Check the timing. Check the fuel/air mix. Make it richer. | ||
| Randomchaos |
I still need to try adjusting the timing on mine. Heard alot of people have fixed the pinging, and even the occasional stumbling and off throttle blips by tinkering with the timing. Mine likes to ping like a mofo after sitting in traffic for a few minutes, no matter what the ambient temp is. | ||
| Pogue_mahone |
hhahaha funny the stuff u learn from working with an irish guy. he did get me hooked on irish music tho--no complaints here. | ||
| Stuntmanryan |
pogue and arch you must be new to this subject... lots of guys bikes do this, mine even did it right out of the box, not as much as it does now with the race ecm and ss drummer but it did it. Buell and Harley call it normal so they are well aware of the issue... The only way for me to fix the problem is to get the bike dyno tuned and richen the mixture up. Setting the timing is a band aid fix as that is only your base timing and your real timing is determined by the ecm. Race gas is not a band aid, it stops the pinging and therefore stops potential engine problems and I didn't have to modify the timing or do any work the engine itself. | ||
| Tpoppa |
Most 110 gas is leaded. It will ruin your O2 sensor. | ||
| Saratoga |
Said it before, most speed shops only carry VP Red which contains lead. Tpoppa is correct. | ||
| Bads1 |
I have a Drummer SS and a race ecm and modded intake. First.... Toppa is correct. You 02 is going to be shot running it. Your problem exists in the bikes set up. Timing and tps. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
I am new to the subject since about 1974. Like Ron Wood, still the new guy. Pinging is a thing that happens under certain circumstances. And then you deal with it. If it is happening at a predictable time, i.e., riding for an hour in NH spring temperatures, something mechanical is wrong. HD wrote their language for hours of riding in the summer upper heat ranges (and Buell put in the cylinder cut-off trick). Because pinging is a bad thing. By timing and fuel/air mix, I did mean the ECM. And I did mean for you to check all your sensors, following Pogue's check everything list. Bads1 is probably correct on the O2 sensor. | ||
| Miko_k |
I've owned my bike since new, it always pings when hot and more than 30-40% throttle. I tried colder plugs, running the fan when in N, put a small fan on the rear of the airbox, to keep it cool, still pings when hot. I will try toluene and will post the results when I find out what % cures it for good. | ||
| Poppinsexz |
Check the Timing. I also had a pinging problem. Mine was several degrees advanced from the factory. Once I set the timing back the pinging stopped. | ||
| Sifo |
Mine pinged from day one. ECMSpy was the fix for me. Mine pinged around 3000 rpm with mild acceleration. I could get rid of it by running richer, but the ECM wants to lean it out again across the entire map. Then I would have problems every where in the fuel map. I wound up taking couple of degrees of timing out in just a few cells of the timing map. Nothing noticeable when riding except it doesn't ping any more. | ||
| Stuntmanryan |
lead in fuel... good my fuel injectors will stay nice and lubricated... ruin o2 sensor... who cares that will take almost forever and when it does go Harley uses just about the cheapest o2 sensor out there so no big deal... retard the timing.... yawn boring still doesn’t solve the problem... ECM spy is the real only answer I talk to Al about this and he told me the only way to really solve it is to get it tuned to try and do it yourself... for now I have fixed the problem until I learn enough about ECM spy so I can confidently do it myself. | ||
| Bads1 |
Keep your injectors Lubricated???? Already then you sound more and more like your on top of your game. Your on your own. Fuel injectors lubed lol you just made me smile. Enjoy the 110.... its great bandaid.lol | ||
| Iamarchangel |
So, Ryan, basically, you're saying that Buell is marketing a machine that goes into self destruct, after less than an hour, if the ambient temperature is 65° - 70°, unless the bike has race gas? That's is an interesting niche market! The things I learn here. Carry on. | ||
| Stuntmanryan |
arch maybe you should do a little research first... this site has a search function go ahead and give it a try... yes there have been people who have called buell/harley about the problem and yes buell/harley said it is normal there has also been people who brought their bikes into the dealer trying to get them fixed with only having the dealer say they cant duplicate the issue... and obviously you know nothing about new england weather as it is all over the place and it was 85-90 here on Friday... it was in the 90's last month... bads1 yes lead is a lubricator and fuel injectors are moving parts so yes it will keep them lubricated, thanks for your input. | ||
| Glen |
a tip for you race gas guys, stop in at your local small airport with a couple gas cans and ask for av gas. works as well as race gas but cheaper...i run it in my dirtbikes. plus i put it in my snowblower, gives me my high octane smell fix when all the toys are sleeping for the winter. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en- us&q=mont+vernon+weather&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 Ask me something difficult. It's basically the same as here. Those threads were praise and accepting norms? And all resolved by Av gas? Like I said, carry on. | ||
| Glen |
ive bumped up compression on my dirtbikes, so reg pump gas does nothing but foul plugs and spit spooge out of the mufflers. but in my stock Uly, it would be a waste of good gas to keep feeding it super high octane. p.s. keep in mind that there are a few different types of av gas, and its somthing like a 10,000 dollar fine for running it on the street. Road tax evasion  | ||
| Glen |
http://www.osbornauto.com/racing/dragster.htm | ||
| Bads1 |
Ryan your bike was designed to run on pump gas not 110. As far as the factory knowing of the problem??? Your right but that doesn't mean it cannot be fixed. Your injectors don't need lead to keep lubed. They were designed for unleaded fuel. Funny you know so much. Your valves are even the valvetrain was designed for unleaded. This isn't a car built in the 60's. LOL Your bike can be corrected as it sits. You don't need SPY or 110 octane. You came here asking for input...you got it and you don't want to listen. That in my book is ignorance. Go find a dealer that can correct your bike. LOL | ||
| Tpoppa |
Ryan your bike was designed to run on pump gas not 110. As far as the factory knowing of the problem??? Your right but that doesn't mean it cannot be fixed. Your injectors don't need lead to keep lubed. They were designed for unleaded fuel. Funny you know so much. Your valves are even the valvetrain was designed for unleaded. This isn't a car built in the 60's. LOL Your bike can be corrected as it sits. You don't need SPY or 110 octane. You came here asking for input...you got it and you don't want to listen. That in my book is ignorance. Go find a dealer that can correct your bike. LOL +1 Good advice, you (Ryan) should listen. | ||
| Littlefella |
AV gas had lead in it though. This will burn up your O2 sensor. I personally run it in everything I can without a sensor. Chainsaws, chevy powered samurai, you name it. | ||
| Stuntmanryan |
arch you should just stop talking... did I say they solved their problem with aviation gas or race gas no, read the whole paragraph next time and who cares if you know how to use google, congrats annnd we will carry on as you say... bads1... first of all I didn't ask for any input I was just giving mine. Yes I know that my fuel injectors and valve train don't need further lubricating I was being facetious. I highly doubt the dealer will do anything at all for me be besides charge me an arm and a 18 year old porn star virgin. Like I said I spoke to Al on this and he agrees that the only way to fix the bike is by tuning it. Maybe if Harley offers a recall on it I will bring it in so they can do something about it. Who cares what my bike was designed to run on obviously they didn’t do a good enough job, I know what its running good on now and that’s 1 gallon of 110 and the rest is 93. If I toast a o2 sensor so what you can buy one of those one wire o2 sensors for dirt cheap, the owner of the shop and another guy that works there have been running it in their Harleys from day one with no problems at all and that was 3 years ago, yes they are efi and they run it straight. So I guess me doing something different then what you or anyone else would do is called ignorance because I didn’t do it your way. We each have our own way of fixing things, this is mine, I sure as hell am not going to retard the timing and I am also sure as hell not going to take it to a dealer so they can tell me there’s nothing wrong. | ||
| Pogue_mahone |
eh pull the plug on this thread.she is dead  | ||
| Swordsman |
I had a bit of pinging one Summer and thought I'd fix it, drilled out the timing cover rivets and twisted it around a bit. I saw that trick on here somewhere, but I mucked it up, and couldn't get it set back. Ultimately I hooked up ECMSpy and started from scratch, adjusting the STATIC timing. Lo and behold, THAT fixed my pinging once and for all. Oops. Didn't scroll all the way down. Forget I mentioned it!  ~SM (Message edited by Swordsman on May 19, 2009) | ||
| Bads1 |
Bring it to a dealer that can I repeat can fix the problem. Lots of these bikes timing are wrong. And you must carry a camel back full of 110 when you go somewhere more then a 150 miles hey??? Also this is a forum... you posted your fix. So you didn't think you were going to get a response????? LOL Great you talked to Al. That is one opinion. He gave his. We give ours. Good luck with your bike. | ||
| Debueller |
Here is the thread that explains in detail how to retard your timing and by how much: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/455959.html?1240942811 I did it on my '06 Ulysses and the pinging problem was a thing of the past without any negetive side effects......even when running regular pump gas. | ||
| Buelltuner |
My .02, I had a customer awhile back that had a pinging issue that would just not be resolved with setting the timing correctly. My last ditch effort involved running the bike on the dyno and retarding the timing until the pinging was gone. Running the bike I was able to find a "happy place" for timing that did not effect the torque curve and got rid of the detonation. When I checked the static timing it was nowhere near being textbook. Sometimes you need to find the "happy place" the bike wants, not what spec says. | ||
| Tpoppa |
I heard if you run Diesel the pinging will completely stop.  | ||
| Sifo |
It's a good idea to check the static timing to make sure it's correct. Mine was dead on from the factory, but others have found theirs off. While retarding the timing under the timing cover will cure a pinging problem it will also retard the timing in areas where you don't have to. I only had to retard a few cells (I forget if it was 3 or 4 cells) to get rid of my pinging. No need to reduce my power for the rest of the timing map. |
