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Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 02:09 am: | 
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Dyna, read the earlier posts. The V-Rod is exactly what it is...a great big beautiful, heavily styled and large scale cruiser motor. IT IS NOT a world class sportbike motor looking for a home. IT IS a world class cruiser motor perfectly at home where it is.
It absolutely would be making excuses to magazine writers for being oversize and overweight used in a sport bike. To say it should be put in a sport bike is a heck of a lot sillier than any attitude that says air-cooled motors make fine sport bikes.
Fact: an XB12R will kick ass on an air cooled Ducati 1000SS in every way, and several US mags still suck up to Ducati. A 500 plus pound V-Rod powered sportbike would get it's ass kicked by a Ducati 999R, and Buell and Harley-Davidson would be crucified. So, it ain't gonna happen. |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 02:09 am: |
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Court, you might want to call Buell & have em look at this bike, it has the old recalled shock on it
Would hate to see that become a safety issue.
Happy new year ya fart. |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 02:16 am: |
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Anony, we have been down this road before. Steve A. gave us the weights for the 2 powerplants & the V-rod was only like 15-20 lbs more. Add in a bit more for 2 small radiators & fluid & it wouldnt be that bad. I think it could be kept down to about 490 lbs total. The XB12 is pushing about 460 wet.
I agree with the Duc deal, I really have no frickin idea why the mags feel this need to suck up to them. The SS is an ugly bike to me, as is the Multistrada. And the performance sure doesnt justify the cost of admission.
And has motorcyclist ever met a Honda they didnt like? They rave on & on about 919 like its gods own bike...everyone knows cecil..err I mean God runs a ZX12R The 919 is one of the homeliest ass piles of shit I have ever layed eyes on. Sorta like the Suzuki V-strom, dont care how well it works, if its that damn ugly I dont want to be seen on it & lose some of my poser points. |
Clydeglide
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 08:07 am: |
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I'll be spending the day on a heavily breathed on Hayabusa tomorrow...
Take a change of underwear!! |
Bads1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 08:47 am: |
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Dyna then the bike ewasn't stock.Remember the one at the Racine HD show??? Its for sale and had the chance to ride it back in October.That bike has the 140 hp kit as you called it in it and would do that rather easy.I've test rode a stock one and the only way it was gonna do it is clutch,water or oil on the pavement.I'm no stranger to burnout bikes I owned a stock to pretty modifed V-max for 4 yrs.She either clutched it or something on the tire.Know anyone that would like to buy a hot V-Rod. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 11:44 am: |
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If the next Buell continues to be a street oriented machine, I would think they could make the VROD work very well for its intended use.
From what I have read and seen, this motor has tons of torque and more top end than the current 12 motor ( I dont have one so I am speculating).
It looks pretty cool too I think and with aftermarket pipes, sounds very very good.
Having said that, I do love the simplicity of no carbs, no valve adjustments, no chain lube, etc. Just change the oil and go!!
Also I really like Ducatis but for purely emotional reasons. However, most of them are pretty slow ( I absolutely hammered a ss750 the other day with my little 9!).
The ducs are also pretty noisy with that stupid clutch. But the writers just come in their pants at every duc and trash the Buell everytime (save John Burns god bless him).
Hey, life ain't fair! Happy New Year! |
Gonen60
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 11:50 am: |
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then again, if we are debating how well the XB would accept the "HARLEY DAVIDSON V-ROD " Motor, why not debate dropping in a Ducati or GSX-R1000 motor.
My point being, the V-ROD is built by HD, where at least the Buell motors are re-vamped and built by Buell.
I guess We are all talking about "Buell" taking the V-ROD and re-vamping it, like He did with the HD sportster motor....Just a thought, How about Buell build their own "Water-cooled, High Horsepower Motor"
the majority think, the new 12 motor is still lacking, when compared to other sport bikes we line up against on the street and track.
I for one, wish the Buell had a "150-180 HP" model street bike, like all other sport bikes offer..
If Buell puts the V-ROD motor in the buell frame, would it still be called the V-ROD, I dont think so...
It's a fun debate, and while we all ponder, we can all still go out, and have a ball riding our current Bikes. I for one, enjoy my XB9. Do I wish it was even faster???, Hell yes, but wouldn't we always wish that, no matter how much HP it was pushing, and how high the speedo needle climbed???
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Dynarider
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 12:41 pm: |
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My point being, the V-ROD is built by HD, where at least the Buell motors are re-vamped and built by Buell.
Nope, the Buell powertrains are entirely built at HD's capitol drive plant. They arrive at East Trot fully assembled.
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Brucelee
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 12:42 pm: |
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So now if BUELL decided to charge 9G for a 48 ft lbs bike what would the writers say??
Now, look at what this writers says about the duc ss750 ( a bike that I like by the way)
"Looking behind the 3.5 x 17 inch front wheel, the 90° fuel-injected V-twin engine has a commanding sound. Much more a roar than a purr, the engine likes to be revved throughout its range. Although the tachometer does not display it, the 750 Supersport has a red-line of 9,000 rpm.
The simple dash proved effective. However, below 4K rpm, the needles would vibrate.
The air/oil-cooled engine was able to hold up to the strain of repeated mountain road excursions without any problems. Although the engine was well built and we suffered no mechanical problems during our month-long test, we did notice that during hotter days the oil temperature needle would routinely waver past the 75% mark, although it never ventured into the red zone. Still, from the silly grins we found plastered across our test riders' faces, }
Notice the forward pivoting rear brake lever, forward canted engine and trellis frame.
The engine is linked to a five-speed gearbox. While this may seem odd for a sportbike, it is not close-ratio and it takes advantage of the power band that the Desmo twin delivers. What is not odd for a Ducati is the off-pivot design of both the transmission shift lever and the rear brake. The shift lever is particularly small, but this did not seem to cause problems unless the rider was wearing obscenely heavy boots. The transmission exhibited some unique characteristics, namely, the transmission would occasionally shift into a false neutral. The clutch required acclimation, but even when broken in, we still found it grabby. Furthermore, the transmission was a bit notchy.
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Court
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 12:59 pm: |
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Interesting thread....some of this is accurate; much is inaccurate and pure speculation.
The motors are built by Harley-Davidson which is a lovely arrangement since they have a motor building facility and Buell doesn't. When you finish your rocket science assignment for the day, take a toke on that. The motors are DESIGNED by Buell and built, by Harley-Davidson to precise Buell specifications.
Please note that in years gone by there have been some de minimus alterations to the motors.
Also, for those of you in the pre-1993 Buell era, the story gets MUCH better.....but, that's another story.
Remind me to tell you sometime....
Court |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 01:01 pm: |
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The shift lever is particularly small, but this did not seem to cause problems unless the rider was wearing obscenely heavy boots. The transmission exhibited some unique characteristics, namely, the transmission would occasionally shift into a false neutral.
You would almost think they were describing the XB. |
Nevco1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 01:37 pm: |
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This is a test to see if this thread is really closed.
Too bad, I really enjoyed all the humorous posts. Must admit the laughter helps heal the hangover.
Happy New Year's Day! |
Gonen60
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 01:41 pm: |
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The motors are DESIGNED by Buell and built, by Harley-Davidson to precise Buell specifications.
My point on the nose, the V-rod is designed and built by HD...and I don't think they are going to put a motor from a HD production bike, into a buell.
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Dynarider
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 01:51 pm: |
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And why not? In past years the Tube frame bikes used to use stock sporty motors. After awhile they started using a different design head & cams.
The Buell XB motors & the Sporty XL motors are built in the same plant on the same line, side by side with each other. They share many common parts.
Court, which parts are inaccurate? tell us & we will see what we can dig up. |
Gonen60
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 02:28 pm: |
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I guess just wishful thinking...
I would like to see one of two things happen.
#1, The future Buell gets a High Performance, High Output, High Horsepower engine, that shares nothing in common with any HD production bikes, that can be perform with the other Sportbikes being built by Honda, Suzuki, etc. and it's truelly 100% Buell...
#2, HD starts producing a re-vamped true HD sportbike based on something like the VR1000, that can run with other high performace street bikes. (of course I can't see this happening)
again, these are just some wishful type thoughts, in the mean time, I still love My Sporter powered Buell...LOL
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Rocketman
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 02:52 pm: |
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What a bloody thread or two. Can't help but jump in on this one seeing as I've come up with what I consider a great idea for the new Buell.
Instead of debating \ guessing what form the Buell will take I say anonymous should just fess up and tell us. Now isn't that a great idea?
Oh yeah, if it's like Court suggests then put me down for lusting over a retro-S1 series too....and, hey...that's not just me is it.
I'd like to take this opportunity to suggest, if there's still time of course, that a retro S1 breaks 160mph and I'll put up with the consequential unreliability - I'm seasoned to it now 
Rocket 
edited by rocketman on January 01, 2004 |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 03:38 pm: |
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To my knowledge, the only Buell to use a stock sporty engine was the S2.
Dyna,
Reread what anony has posted. I think that Anony did a good job of clarifying what statements proffered here are"inaccurate." |
Davegess
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 04:03 pm: |
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I have a real hard time buying a Vrod in a Buell. Buell gets an under powered over weight motor that is way too big for the current chassis. I certainly believe you have seen water cooled Buell running around, perhaps a VR powered one? BUT if Buell is building a watercooled bike why woudl they weight the worlds trickest chassis and one of the smallest lightest 1000 around with a motor that is not anywhere near being a cool sport bike motor?
There are only 3 things remotely wrong with the XB, 1 the motor is larger than it needs to be, 2 the motor is heavier than it needs to be and 3 it could use a bit more power. Of course if you fix the first two than 3 may no longer apply. Take 50 pounds off the XB9 or 12 and you would have a truley amazing package.
Why would they not do a small light weight engine to compliment the rest of the bike? Say 100 pounds including radiator and fluid with 140 HP? Now that would be a very cool bike.
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Nevco1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 07:24 pm: |
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And there you have it Ladies and Gentlemen, straight from the horse's mouth. Yep, that is Dave's Gess (read: "guess" for you literate types) concerning the future!
LMAO...Sorry Dave, I just couldn't resist that. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 08:00 pm: |
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Nevco  I never gess i am always right!!!! Remember Im the guy who prediticted an M2 replacement and instead they made the XB12? |
Nevco1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 09:25 pm: |
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Thanks Dave...Remind me not to invite you along to the Casino's. LMAO |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 09:44 pm: |
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Dave Gess in a casino?
Perish the thought.....although I intend to take him to a place that HAS a casino.
Happy New Year Dave.... |
Mikej
| | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 10:47 pm: |
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"I do love the simplicity of no carbs"
Are you implying that fuel injection is "simple"?
Try to debug one after running out of gas on a dark and rainy night in the middle of Nebraska sometime.
Carb: Got gas?
F.I.: Got a scanalyzer or analyzer?
Let's see what happens if we line up some quotes:
1."Erik Buell ... played a significant role in the intial design of the VROD and the VR platforms. "
2."How about Buell build their own "Water-cooled, High Horsepower Motor" "
3."Also, for those of you in the pre-1993 Buell era, the story gets MUCH better.....but, that's another story. "
4."I certainly believe you have seen water cooled Buell running around, perhaps a VR powered one? "
5."Why would they not do a small light weight engine to compliment the rest of the bike? Say 100 pounds including radiator and fluid with 140 HP? Now that would be a very cool bike. "
So, with a casino frame of mind I'll put 50cents on a redesigned VR engine, and 50cents on a reintroduced and revamped square-four two-stroke. The Euro-boys now have a clean running 2-stroker that should theoretically get past the USA EPA regs, so why not? Might as well start the new year off with a total guess.
(wonder what's going on in the other thread...) |
José_quiñones
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 06:31 pm: |
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Why a two stroke square four, just buy the rights to revive and produce a modern version of the old Ariel four stroke square four engine:
edited by josé_quiñones on January 02, 2004 |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 08:20 pm: |
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Why? Increased power, reduced mass, reduced inertial properties. |
Ebear
| | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 09:27 pm: |
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Jose , are you an Ariel fan????Ive allways been intrigued by the Sq Four since my Dad was into them.Have allmost bought 2 basket cases in the past.Too many projects still!I was at a local Sportbike hangout (Newcombs Ranch)New Years eve and it was Vintage day with HUNDREDS of too cool Ducatis,Triumphs,Bmw,Nortons,BSA's and on and on and a NORTON ARIEL!First one I'd seen and a Great job he did!That was just too cool a motor! |
José_quiñones
| | Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 08:16 pm: |
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Ebear,
It's a very interesting design, featuring good mass centralization, complete lack of vibration, and unlike any other engine available today. |
Kaudette
| | Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 06:25 am: |
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and they run too hot to be air cooled... |
Austinrider
| | Posted on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 09:05 am: |
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M1Combat -
I used my smallest allen wrench (thinner than hanger wire) to clean out the rocks and pebbles back there. Afterwards I applied a fine beed of black silicone, problem gone. |
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