| Author | Message | ||
     Arctic_firebolt |
I realize there are a number of posts out there but I am hoping to narrow things down a little to just the 2008 Models. I have an '08 XB12R. I realize that these engines are different in many ways to the actual Sportster 1200 but loss of power while taking off and slow speed turns when the light changes are dangerous. I have tried to blip the throttle to get the RPM's up a little but sometimes it still does it. The excitement begins when it catches and all of a sudden you're holding on.  My MPG is very poor. Approximately 33 - 38 as of late. It is at the dealer for what seems like a rotor or caliper issue and I have asked to check for any ECM updates. I am not interested in ECM spy since I do not know enough about engine tuning and do not want to cause more harm than good. The bike does start easily but idles like nothing else I ever owned. However, I hear that is because of the aggressive cams and timing? Riding at 55 - 75MPH is VERY smooth and the torque is always there. In any event if anyone has been able to improve engine performance / reliability or MPG I would appreciate the info. Thanx! in advance. | ||
| Js_buell |
Everyone with the 08+ bikes that are not running properly are still trying to get it better but as far as I know no one managed to fix the problems yet. | ||
| Arctic_firebolt |
Well that's helpful too. At least I know I haven't missed anything yet. | ||
| Krueger08xb12s |
I own an 08 XB12S, my bike's in the shop now for running on one cylinder. It seems to be more than just the occasional fouled plug. My tips to you: - NEVER BLIP THE THROTTLE. Ease the gas from idle to get up near 2,000 RPM before releasing the clutch and moving. There's no harm in it (advise from the dealer) and it'll eliminate that unexpected "cough" and bike stutter which is somewhat common depending on the rider. -Drummer Exhaust and K&N air filter. Costs about $500 total and will give you that loved Harley sound (moderately loud but very deep) and a noticeable increase in torque at about 4k RPM. Not a noticeable decrease in torque down low as some open cans create. -Ride your bike to operating temperature each time you start it (10-25 minutes depending on air temp). This gets the combustion chambers hot enough to burn off ALL of the fuel. These bikes are extremely sensitive and will foul plugs if run on short rides. The '08 xb's have a feature completely new to Buell; if the bike recognizes that operating temp has not been achieved in the past 3 rides, it automatically performs a "pre-start ignition" in which the spark plugs are zapped for about 3 seconds while the Engine Light lit and before you start the bike. To do this manually (if you feel the need or have a semi-fouled plug), with the bike OFF position the red ignition switch to "Run", rotate the throttle to Full Open Position, and finally turn the Key from "off" to "on" and hold the throttle open for 3-4 seconds. You'll likely hear a "pop" or "Whoosh" sound indicating residual fuel has been burned. -Battery Tender: I hear a low battery can cause a number of problems including a hard startup. | ||
| Arctic_firebolt |
Thanx! I have read about the "plug zap" but never felt the need for it. Of course much of what you wrote here is news to me as well. While I do all the general maintenance on my Night Train I have not yet ventured into it on the Buell. Mainly because I don't have the knowledge yet. I appreciate the info. Ride Safe. | ||
| Boney95 |
My 08Ss gets the shaty mpg also, but other than that she runs like a champ. Just make sure the dealer takes care of all your problems. Good Luck! | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
It's strange to me that so many people have problems with their '08 XB's. I can go from standstill to a steady 10-15 mph with using no throttle at all- just feathering the clutch. At any rpm above idle it's as smooth as any bike I've owned. I have, however, had many problems with Buells in the past- so I do know where you're coming from. I just don't think the problems are across the board- there are good '08 XB's out there... I'm lucky enough to have one. Be patient, there will be a fix for this anomaly. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
My bike is earlier so this may not apply. The bike seems to have a sudden powerband shift at 4200rpm. Blipping the throttle may take you there suddenly. Mine hits on the highway, suddenly everything is just perfect. Others have commented on this. Big engines, especially air cooled, are not good for short runs in cooler weather. I stop using my 9R as a commuter in Fall just because of that. Blipping the throttle at any time is a bad habit for many reasons. Try to avoid it. | ||
| Aptbldr |
What is its idle rpm? | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Approximately 1,000 rpm. | ||
| Boltrider |
I also have an '08 Bolt. Mine has bogged on me a few times in the cold, but I think it was due to the bike not having warmed up yet. With the weather getting colder, I try to let the bike idle for several minutes before taking off. Other than that, she runs pretty strong. (Message edited by boltrider on January 03, 2009) | ||
| Arctic_firebolt |
Hey Aptbldr, yesterday when I rode it to the dealer it was right at 1000 RPM idle. Boltrider, I certainly understand your point about the engine being warm, like most vehicles I would assume. I ran it about 30 miles yesterday, but here in Fla it was about 75 deg  So, you are correct. Aside from engine warm up time the temps here are great. Actually I have a rode a number of days now that it is FINALLY cooler here in FL, wondering if perhaps the excessive heat we usually have was having any adverse effects. So, far I only have about 3500 miles and the dealership where I purchased the bike did the 1K check. | ||
| Artic_12_r |
Hey Artic, I had the same issue with the bike running. Mine used to pop through the air box and stumble on its face at a take off. The reflash fixed it. It did not idle smooth and ran like a different bike after the flash. Let me know what the brake issue is I have a bad vibration on the front when I brake hard. | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
Im not sure if it would help an 08 but my 05 did it bad if the motor wasnt hot when I first bought it. I put the NGK Iridium plugs Part# DPR9EIX in and it has never happened since. That was about 5000 miles ago. i dont see what it could hurt trying it.  | ||
| Arctic_firebolt |
Thanx for the tip on the plugs. I may just try that! As for the brake Artic_12_r, the dealer called earlier today and said, although they can hear it and feel it when they tested the bike, they can not find anything wrong. They asked to keep it until HD re-opens on Monday and have a deeper look. Naturally I agreed. I will open a new thread when I find out. | ||
| Boltrider |
Yeah those iridium plugs will be the next thing I do. The brake issue sounds like brake dust build-up on the rotors. Try cleaning the rotors thoroughly. Some guys have had luck switching to a different brake pad that doesn't leave as much particle deposit on the rotors. (Message edited by boltrider on January 04, 2009) | ||
| Buplaux |
If these bikes are TUNED PROPERLY you can blip the throttle all day long with no hesitation or stumbling. You WILL NOT FOUL PLUGS EVER. You DO NOT have to let it warm up before you take off down the road. It will idle as smooth as any carbed harley and rev even better. I realize there isn't much the '08 crowd can do but throwing spark plugs, air cleaners , & pipes at it won't do shit except make everything worse(leaner). The fuel and timing maps have to be altered or it will never ever ever ever ever run well. PERIOD | ||
| Arctic_firebolt |
Well Buplaux, so far mine is 100% stock. I have not changed a single thing. I thought perhaps the idea of the iridium plugs couldn't hurt. But don't you think that the bike is running too rich to get such poor mileage? On the other hand I have always been convinced since day 1 the problem is the ECM tuning and I would have to agree that until Buell figures it out all of us '08 owners are stuck. My biggest concern will be that they change the DDFI again for '09 and then we will never have a solution. | ||
| Buplaux |
Generally I think most of the areas on the map are too lean from the factory. The plug fouling and bad mileage could be from the accelerator pump feature being to rich or the cold start enrichment is too rich or a combination of the too will cause fouled plugs and bad mileage. Hopefully someone will figure out how to crack the ecm code so you can use ecmspy software. Unfortunately I don't think it will be buell though. I think there hands are tied behind there backs because of emissions on these beasts(they are not the most effecient engines= they like a lot of fuel). Long story short I have an '04 which ran crappy until I broke down & installed a wide band o2 sensor in the front and rear pipe and tuned them seperately. Lots and lots of data logging before this with the narrow band gave me results but not nearly as good as the wide band. I think someone will come up with something to fix the fueling issues with the '08 eventually, but it is a shame that u have to spend money on these things to get them to run well. In my opinion the way they run from the factory is totally unacceptable! Good luck. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
I'm going to disagree that a properly tuned engine will survive constant blipping without fouling. The occasional blip will work out but constant, no. I'm going to agree that warm up, especially in Florida, is accomplished by the time your gloves are on. Even here in Ontario, I don't wait more than a minute or two in the cold. I find that treating the bike like a mx race bike works best. It's meant to be a high revver, not a lugger. Get it up to 4200 rpm as soon as you can. Don't let it get below 3000 unless you have to. Don't use first except to start off (yeah, the bike should be a six speed). | ||
| Id073897 |
The plug fouling and bad mileage could be from the accelerator pump feature being to rich or the cold start enrichment is too rich or a combination of the too will cause fouled plugs and bad mileage. Accel enrichment seems more too less than too much otherwise a rich and not a lean mixture would be monitored. Hopefully someone will figure out how to crack the ecm code so you can use ecmspy software. There's nothing do "crack". It's just not worth the effort to rewrite the software. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Accel enrichment seems more too less than too much otherwise a rich and not a lean mixture would be monitored. Can you try this again, please? I'm not sure what you are trying to say. | ||
| Id073897 |
Opening the throttle fast, so that full accel enrichment is triggered, leads to a rising exhaust gas O2 level. This is (usually) not a sign of too much fuel, but of too less. | ||
| Spacewolf |
I agree with Krueger08xb12s...I have a full micron, iridium plugs, K&N filter, and mine runs great. I'm getting near on 280 kays to a tank of fuel (about 170 miles), which for a 16.7 litre tank isn't that bad at all. I do have a really small flat spot in the throttle, but I either ride above 2400 rpm, or just give the throttle a small blip just as I'm about to dump the clutch, to keep the throttle rolled on (sort of). Either way, I'm happy as with mine, but i would reccommend the iridium plugs. | ||
| Aptbldr |
Arctic, during yesterday's ride I could get some jerky operation at low engine/road speeds in 1st at transitions across slack-to-active throttle; maybe like you've described recently? Normally, I apparently compensate and its not been an issue for my re-tuned '04. Suggest: confirm throttle cables are freely moving and adjusted. Plan adjusting throttle free-play to minimum spec now myself. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Opening the throttle fast, so that full accel enrichment is triggered, leads to a rising exhaust gas O2 level. This is (usually) not a sign of too much fuel, but of too less. So, what you're saying is that when the throttle is blipped, the TPS will read that as you want to accelerate. The ECM will kick in with the enrichment (higher fuel/air flow and slightly leaner if following tradition carb arrangement). The O2 reads the increased air flow as leaner and the ECM compensates by increasing fuel, making the mix richer. About that time, the blip is done and the wet mix now dumps on the plugs fouling them on a cold engine, adding carbon and backfire to a warm engine and generally screwing up the fuel economy. And then, with the throttle back in the normal position, the exhaust mix is too rich so the ECM compensates by leaning the mix so there's another bog for the moment it takes to adjust and normalize. Best to keep a steady rpm and use the clutch more. | ||
| Buplaux |
I found through my extensive trial and error sessions and data logging that my bike wanted less fuel than the stock accel enrich schedule but this is probably due to the fact that my map base numbers were richer than stock numbers after all the data logging. Can't really say for sure with a stock set up what the bike would like- less or more. I know for sure they like more timing in the idle and just off idle areas. Mine liked around 13 btdc at idle and just off idle. stock was set at 0 idle and around 5 btdc off idle= sluggish revving. I am sure there are smarter guys on here but I have spent around 40 hours datalogging and making small adjustment and over a 100 reading to gain as much knowledge as I could to get this beast to run acceptable too me. I am there but it was a long journey. I love the bike now but would not buy another if I didn't have the ability to work out its problems. | ||
| Id073897 |
So, what you're saying is that when the throttle is blipped, the TPS will read that as you want to accelerate. No. The ECM detects a rapid change in TPS voltage and interprets this as an accel or decel condition, depending on the direction. The ECM will kick in with the enrichment (higher fuel/air flow and slightly leaner if following tradition carb arrangement). The O2 reads the increased air flow as leaner and the ECM compensates by increasing fuel, making the mix richer. No O2 correction in enrichment mode, these all are OL. This is a standard procedure and one reason that calibration is bound to steady load. Why don't you just run a log and look at it yourself? I'm a bit tired of all those speculations what the ECM does and what not. It's all in the logs. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Sorry, Id, I'm not speculating. You're teaching, I'm trying to understand. ECM reads the TPS, that's what I meant to say. Calibration bound to steady load, that should be basic. Would enrichment mode still be OL on a warmed up bike at a stop light? At about 20-30 mph? Why don't I run a log? Don't have the set up; don't have the need, my 9R runs just fine; there's about a foot of snow and it really should be in storage but that's a different issue. And thanks for all the info you've been providing. | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
gunter a lot of users only are looking at the logs in ecmspy i have found they dont open then in MLV. even then they dont open all the correct lines to see whats going on. as many do know there is a few different programs to use to analyse whats going on. i use two different ways. the dual lc1 units as well as 4 gas. this tells all. right now my bike is in many pieces getting a few basic upgrades. till we all look at the same plan of details its a endless speech. the ecm is very basic. if you think not there is many free ecm tuning software programs with samples load one up and look at everything you see there. it makes the buell simple. i found it on the Honda and the GM ecms they are hard core datas there. mike mike |
