| Author | Message | ||
     Ilikehotchicks |
i was installing after market turn signals in the front of my xb9r tonight. I matched the black wire with the black wire and the brown wire with the black/white wire. I guess this was wrong wireing because it blue the fuse. I replaced the fuse and my gauges work but not the signals. Im guessing i blew the flasher also? any idea? please help asap. thanks reuben | ||
| Bykergeek |
You need a vom (volt meter) or 12V tester to see if you are getting power at the lamp leads. You may have blown the flasher. Luckily, they are pretty generic, cheap and any auto parts store can probably match it up. | ||
| Ilikehotchicks |
yeah there is no power i checked that, it must be the flasher. Where on the bike can it be found? my service manual is in the mail =/ | ||
| Bykergeek |
I think it is near the battery on my XB9r. edited by bykergeek on December 17, 2003 | ||
| Dasxb9s |
If i remember correct... this has been on the board before... in that case the wires were reversed... and it worked... I think in that case the hot wire from the bike was connected to a wire on the unit that went straight to ground... POW... the fuse goes. If you have a continuity tester... with the unit NOT connected to the bike... check the wires on the new turn signals without the bulb in the socket... and put one lead on the outer ring of the socket and find which wire is connected to it... that would be ground. If you don't have one... make one... get a flashlight... take it apart... wrap a wire around the threads of the bulb you took out of the flashlight... and tape a wire to the base of a battery out of the flashlight. Those wires are your test leads. The wire from the flashlight battery is one test lead... the wire wrapped around the threads of the bulb is the other... hook the wires to your test points (no power on, on the bike! unit not connected to the bike) touch the base of the bulb to the end of the battery without the wire taped on... and if the light lights... that is a current path. Assuming you only blew a fuse... replace the fuse... and connect the ground wire to the ground wire... which is I think the opposite of what you tried when the fuse blew. DID I MAKE SENSE??? | ||
| Ilikehotchicks |
yes you made perfect sense, the thing is, i did not only blow a fuse. because i tried the stock ones and they dont work eaither. I must have blown the Flasher but i can not find the damn thing. i checked by the battery but no luck. My service manual wont be here till friday or monday, but i whould really like to ride the bike tomarrow. Can anyone check their manual and let me know exactly where the flasher is located? For the front turn signals. thanks reuben | ||
| Dasxb9s |
email me a phone number... i will get my service manual from the shop and call you on my dime. DASDUSM@aol.com | ||
| Ilikehotchicks |
done thanks alot man. | ||
| Dasxb9s |
on the wiring diagram in the service manual... black wires are ground on the bike | ||
| Ilikehotchicks |
hmmm thats what i though,... also dasx i found the flasher thanks for the help im going to go see if any auto stores are still open its 9 10 here i hope so =) | ||
| Darthane |
Ilikehotchicks, The flasher module on an XB9R is under the front fairing, right hand side, just behind the headlamp assembly. It looks like a relay with a black connector stuck to it shaped like a big, fat X. It has a small steel tab that a bolt runs through to attach it to the bike. Note - it is NOT a simple mechanical flasher like you will find at most automotive stores. Those are simple metal that heats up, and disconnects, and repeats the process. I'd have to dig out my service manual to say anything more than that, and unfortunately it's halfway around the world. Bryan | ||
| Dasxb9s |
Reuben... Glad I could help... sorry I only had a 9S manual... it would have been faster if I also had a 9R manual (which I will get someday... along with some tuber manuals) Bryan... I was afraid it would not be that simple... I was suspecting it was a little more high tech than the common flasher. | ||
| Ilikehotchicks |
yeah nothing like it at the auto stores, ill have to make a run to hd after work tomorrow. Hopefully its not a special order product =/ thanks for all your help, I really hope the flasher is what has gone bad. It sure seems like it due to the fact i get no power to any of the turn signals after i blew that fuse. I think ill put my stock ones back on and not risk blowing another flasher, as it turns out the new signals were hooked up right but maybe i got a bad one with a short or something. Thanks reuben | ||
| Dasxb9s |
It is always a good idea to meter fuses... it is not outside the murphy's law limit of the replacement fuse being bad or looking OK when it is open. Also... having made myself crazy looking for electrical problems... I have a habit of checking ALL the fuses after a failure due to a human error when fixing electrical stuff. There have been times when more than one fuse took a hike... where I might have shorted more than one thing... or strange things can happen with high current draw blows when a direct short to ground. Some may call it a waste of time... but it takes very little time to pull a fuse and meter it to be sure it is not open. but at times I can be anal! | ||
| Darthane |
Just as an addendum to that, you do not even need to pull the fuses that are used in a XB9R (or most anything else, really). If you look closely at the top of a mini fuse, the leads poke through the plastic - for just that purpose. Touch the meter probes to both sides - if it beeps, you're ok, if not, replace the fuse. Ilikehotchicks, as another sidebar - I crushed my flashing unit almost flat when I went down in North Carolina two summers ago. I squashed it back into an almost square and the damned thing still works, nearly 12000 miles and countless washings and rainstorms later. Amazing hohw much physical damage the thing can sustain, but put 12V to the wrong spot and POOF! LOL Bryan | ||
| Dasxb9s |
Yes... that can work... but if a fuse is blown... and the remainder of the circuit is complete... current taking the path of least resistance... may show continuity not through the path of the fuse... but through the path of the circuit... assuming it is not open due to a switch position... etc. I always say the only good way to check an item such as a fuse is by isolating the path you want to check... pulling the fuse. Also... if there is power applied... like the battery in the circuit... the meter can complete the path in place of the fuse... and it can damage the meter if it is not on a position to measure voltage. | ||
| Darthane |
If the meter is somehow reading continuity through the battery, then it will show up as hundreds if not thousands of ohms, which is obviously not via the fuse. Likewise, if you have a blown fuse and somehow have good continuity between the opposite sides of the fuse, then you have a much, MUCH bigger problem than just a blown fuse. Circuit paths will never, EVER circumvent the fuse that protects them. If they did, then the engineer that designed it should be taken out and shot. I have checked fuses with the entire electrical system intact on a 42-volt system. You will not destroy any meter worth more than $1 by checking a fuse while the battery is connected (whether or not you're willing to risk giving yourself a jolt of juice by doing electrical work with a power source connected is an entirely different matter - I've grown jaded). Any semi decent one includes its own circuit protection, even if that was possible. You don't measure continuity using the voltage position, you measure resistance between two poles. Anything over a few ohms is bad and indicative of some sort of problem. edited by darthane on December 18, 2003 | ||
| Unibear12r |
Dasxb9s is correct about blowing the meter if voltage is there while reading resistance. Most meters use only half a volt for this. According to my 04 manual there is an accessorys fuse in the fairing feeding the o/w wire to the flasher. This feeds the switch on the bars. The switch leads go out to the turn signals and both switch leads go up to the instrument cluster to flash the single indicator lamp also. I dont know what the electronics in that is like but hopefully you didnt smoke that! Also dont forget the main fuse under the seat or to turn on the key and turnsignal switch when testing for voltage (something I would!). Good Luck | ||
| Unibear12r |
A good meter like a Fluke uses a breaker like device that will reset itself if not badly abused but an inexpensive meter will use a fuse or have no protection at all. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Check the wattage of the new and old indicator bulbs. The older bikes had 5 watt bulbs (from memory) and many other indicators have 23 watt bulbs. When I changed indicators on my M2 I blew the flasher relay and then the fuse. I got a new relay from an auto parts store of the correct wattage. Hope that helps. steve_s@ukbeg.com www.ukbeg.com | ||
| Dasxb9s |
"if it beeps, you're ok, if not, replace the fuse." My statement is based on this... this implies that the meter is not being watched for resistance... JUST continuity by tone. Used in audible tone... not measuring actual resistance. Yes... a good meter will not be destroyed... but who want to blow a fuse or pop a breaker on a meter... now you have two blown fuses... one on the bike... another on the meter. There are things you can do, and things at times you shouldn't do... as it may mask another problem... but as you said... "Likewise, if you have a blown fuse and somehow have good continuity between the opposite sides of the fuse, then you have a much, MUCH bigger problem than just a blown fuse. " EXACTLY!!! ...and it sounded from the question that this was not someone with a meter... or experience using meters... knowing the advanced stuff. not everyone has had the years of experience using meters like you and me. (Former electronic tech and electronic instructor) What I am saying... we are both right... and I was giving the basic directions assuming I was not aiding an advanced meter user. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
hmmm...seems to me someone said it didn't matter which way you put the wires on a two wire marker light....  | ||
| Darthane |
I'll say it again, too. IT DOES NOT MATTER, TO A TWO-WIRE LIGHT BULB, WHICH WAY YOU WIRE IT. Do you want me to draw you a schematic to show you? | ||
| Ilikehotchicks |
i dont think it does, i fixed the problem also my manual showed up right when i fixed it... here is how it went down i think it figured it all out; on tuesday i installed the flush mount turn signals on the rear of the bike. After i installed them i tested them and then rode the bike. On wen. i came home and installed the right turn signal as soon and i tested it, Bam fuse blew. I switched the wires replaced fuse then Bam. another. I found the Flasher box thanks to DASXB9S "thanks agian". I took it off went to hd today bought a new one for 6 bucks. Installed the new one and BAM fuse blew. At this rate i have one more chance before i need to buy another flasher. I decided to take the back flush mounts off and replace everything with stock ones; as soon as i get the seat up i see the new turn signal wire was pinched causeing a short. I installed my stock turn signals and decided to leave everything stock. I turned the key on and it works! I rode it around the block came home and there is the ups package with my manual on the porch. =/ Thanks agian for all the help, reuben | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Darthane, I know what you said and I know what it looks like on paper. And I am glad this time it was a real short that caused the problem. I have however run into the "two wire" bulb arrangement that works when the wires are connected one way and not the other. Can't explain it other than I have had to switch wires around often enough on two wire bulb arrangements to mention it. If my cafe bike was here I could actually take a pic of the difference on a volt meter when you switch the electrodes for continuity testing. | ||
| Darthane |
Then it's not a standard filament (like in a regular old flashlight bulb, or the stock turn signals) and/or includes a diode (I'm guessing the former since with a diode it simply wouldn't work at all). Go out and switch the wires on your stock turn signals and see if you blow anything. | ||
| Dasxb9s |
One other possibility why switching the wires could make a difference... and not having looked or metered the setup on the bike I do not know if this applies in THIS case BUT. One wire on the bike provides voltage... in this case 12 volts ultimately from the positive side of the battery... the other wire is ground... terminating at the negative post of the battery. A circuit. Pull the wiring harness off the bike... hook it to all the components and the battery... everything works... in this case... COMMONLY if the wires on the turn signals were reversed it would not matter, it would still be a complete circuit path. As the chassis of the bike IS NOT a factor. HOWEVER... from looking at the wiring diagram in my manual... the ground is actually connected to the chassis. Even though there are "ground" wires from the components (such as the turn signals) running (ultimately) to the negative post of the battery... if I am reading the wiring diagram correctly (and I might not... since I have just really glanced at it, and have not looked at my bike to see if the negative battery cable is bolted to the chassis) the negative side of the battery IS grounded to the chassis. So... assuming I have read the diagram right... and the black wire on the harness IS ground (as there are two paths to the negative post of the battery... one by means of the black ground wire... and the other via the metal chassis)... by reversing the connection to the signals... current path is straight to ground AND NOT through the bulb... since the socket on the ground side may, can be and often has been connected to the mount... which bolts to the chassis... which goes straight to ground. SO... what wire is connected to 12 volts... and what wire connects to black (ground) DOES MATTER! Assuming that the body of the turn signal in question is constructed of a conductive material. THAT is a case that it would make a difference... and not factoring in any thing like diodes or other electronics which may affect the flow of DC current. OK GUYS... rip me apart!!! but remember... I qualified my statement by saying I have not studied the actual set up on the bike... and what I explained MIGHT NOT apply in this case. The point... chassis ground may apply... even though there is a "return" wire for ground... and the turn signal does not just have a short wire bolted/screwed to the chassis for ground. EVEN THOUGH... the negative post of the battery might be physically bolted to the chassis. In the case Wyckedflesh may be talking about... the component may not be a conductor... and may be isolated from chassis ground... and in that case switching wires might not make a difference (assuming there are not diodes or such in a DC circuit) HOWEVER... if a turn signal body is metal or of some material which conducts... and the socket body is attached to this conductor... it would matter... as there is a physical connection to chassis ground in the component! | ||
| Darthane |
Yes, the negative battery terminal is connected to the chassis. That's true of any vehicle that has an electrical system. Yes, all grounding wires in said electrical system are ultimately connected to the negative battery terminal via the chassis. Very, VERY rarely does a component ground go directly to the negative battery terminal, and if memory serves, none of the components on a stock XB do. What is most likely happening in the case of people blowing shit up on their bikes with aftermarket turn signals is that they did not purchase signals with IDENTICALLY RATED bulbs in them. Same type of filament, same wattage, same resistive value across said filament, etc. The only way to have your turn signal battery feed go directly to ground is to physically touch the two leads (ever wonder why they are in that rubber shroud? It ain't cause it looks pretty!) or touch the positive lead to the chassis of the bike. Running the 12V through a filament with the same resistive value as the original, regardless of 'current direction', will not blow a fuse. Period. If a turn signal was produced that had a case ground in it, which is what you described above, then it would not have two leads for just that reason. You'd be wasting wire and there's too much chance of someone running the 12V lead to the ground wire, in this case literally going directly to ground. I've never, ever seen an automotive, trailer, or motorcycle bulb socket with a case ground. I will say it again. To a two wire light bulb. The kind found in automotive, flashlights, motorcycle, indication lamps, and every other light bulb on the planet. It. Does. Not. Matter. Which. Way. You. Wire. It. Only when you change something, such as the type of bulb, will you blow the fuse or fry something else. And in that case, it would do so regardless of which way you wired it, as Ilikehotchicks discovered. I am, however, enjoying this retreat from work, so by all means, let's keep going...and no, that's not sarcasm...it's my last day of work here and it's just DRAGGING ON! LOL | ||
| S320002 |
"Yes, the negative battery terminal is connected to the chassis. That's true of any vehicle that has an electrical system." While it is true that most vehicles have negative ground electrical systems there are exceptions. It is a good idea to check first. | ||
| Glitch |
Yeah my '52 Dodge had a 6 volt positive ground. |
