| Author | Message | ||
     Mikej |
There is no two-way traffic on a track, at least there isn't supposed to be. I'm thinkin' ol' Rocker was just throwing in a bit of good ol' American sarcasm into the mix. Man, reading a flat screen is so different from reading a round face, it's downright hard it is. Sarcastic humor, a trade best used with practice. | ||
| Phillyblast |
hehe hey sean cj just called you a mor . . oh, wait I just re-read that. Never mind. I think this is usually where Aaron chimes in with some math - the higher revs of the R6 mean it's geared differently than the XB12, therefore it has a greater mechanical advantage at high speeds (say over 100 mph) and out-accelerates the XB at those speeds? I'll have to look up the posts on this. | ||
| M1combat |
I think that would be the case. Does it also have 6 gears?? Not that I care... even knowing that the XB won't keep up in a straight line I'll still take an XB12 any day. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
I think seans just still pissed at having to look at that ol bird the queen. thats why english people are so pissy....plus they just ain't as good at sarcasm as we are ...but they are better at dry humor.... now cross that double yeller line.... and bugger off plus I'd rather be an arse licker than an arsehole licker. | ||
| Davegess |
Don't go picking on Rocket, he is a very conservative rider, all that crossing the double yellow stuf is an optical illusion. As far as fast guys on slow bikes, I have a buddy who is a former AMA Pro national road racing champ. He enjoys riding his softtail with his buddies on the hot 600's. He has no trouble at all keeping up. Most of the time they have trouble staying with him. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
exactly dave... I wasn't picking on rocket.....I was just egging him on  | ||
| Rocketman |
Isn't that an oxymoron ???? How would you feel if you were responsible for killing someone ?? PRETTY STRONG TO IMPLY I'M AN IRRESPONSIBLE PERSON ON A MOTORCYCLE Are you suggesting that fast and safe don't go together? Perhaps we should all ride around on restricted 33bhp bikes and wear a fluorescent vest - and we shall never speed. Tell me Chris what is it that's had you biting at me for the past few days? You don't know me nor have you a clue where I'm coming from? Maybe you're just collecting brownie points with the guys which is kinda sad really considering this is a male dominated world. I'd question why a woman would want to do that. Maybe you don't get laid enough and all the testosterone flying around here gets you off. Rocket  | ||
| Blake |
Three seconds after 1 km (5/8 mile)? That seems highly unlikely. I suspect a typo. Going from a ~7/10's advantage in a 1/4 mile drag race to 3 seconds in just a little over a half mile flying run makes absolutely no sense. I bet it was 3/10's; that would make a helluva lot more sense. Was it an XB12R or an XB12S? Thanks for sharing Sean. | ||
| Rocketman |
The three second advantage was gained over a five tight bend stretch of closed road. Neeves did say the R6 gained most of the time on the straights. It was a 12R and both bikes dyno charts were published. To conclude it came across to me that Neeves preferred the 12R over the R6 because it was a more fun ride and he believed it did hang on to the coat-tails of the R6 and that was despite the R6 been faster on the track. I've trawled MCN's website often and as of yet they haven't reprinted the test there and I don't think they will. There was the test with the Brutale , Tuono R and S4R and they haven't reprinted that one either and that was several weeks before the 12R v R6. I don't think they put any comparison tests on their website these days. Blake thanks. Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Seriously. Think about what you are saying... No friggin way an R6 is gonna pull 3 seconds on an XB12R through a mere 5/8 mile of twisty road. No friggin way. Not if the rider knows how to ride. An R6 cannot pull 3 seconds on an SV650 around Oak Hill Raceway's entire 1.8 mile road coarse. Sorry, that has to be a typo. Must be 3/10th's. | ||
| Rocketman |
Not what I'm saying - what NEEVES is saying. The Rockingham website offers not a thing (stupidly so) on track info so I can't say how long the track is - and the article didn't state the lap times - just the corner speeds - but the article did say "The Yamaha's blistering acceleration and excellent handling allowed it to lap Rockingham a full four seconds faster than the Firebolt". As for the closed road the wording was written "the R6 is only three seconds ahead". I don't see it as a typo Blake - not unless he meant to write "three tenths of a" and not make "seconds" plural - and given the track is somewhat longer than the closed road section I'd say those times tie-in. Rocket | ||
| José_quiñones |
Seriously. Think about what you are saying... No friggin way an 749R with a 54mm stroke is gonna wind up to 15,000 rpm. If you do the math, you would see that a 54mm stroke at 15,000 rpm is an average piston speed of 5317 feet per minute. No friggin way. Sorry, that has to be a typo. Must be more like 13,500 rpm, I'm sure that's what Jeff told you. Posted here because Blake has decided to ignore the original thread | ||
| Cj_xb |
PRETTY STRONG TO IMPLY I'M AN IRRESPONSIBLE PERSON ON A MOTORCYCLE I wasn't trying to suggest that, but seriously isn't it dangerous to cross a double yellow ?? Maybe your fast and ride better than me, but I'd be afraid if I couldn't see far enough ahead that I could hit something head on ! I probably ride too conservatively and certainly not well enough to avoid an accident if it were imminent !! CJ  | ||
| Dynarider |
I wasn't trying to suggest that, but seriously isn't it dangerous to cross a double yellow ?? Not in all instances. Look at quite a few areas of lake county Il, they have double yellows painted on flat straight sections of roads. Years ago those same roads were the usual dashed yellow lines. Cops like to stake those roads out. Its almost like a trap setup between the highway dept & the cops to raise more money. | ||
| Rocketman |
Crossing the double yeller has nothing to do with anything coming the other way - OBVIOUSLY IF THERE IS SOMETHING COMING THE OTHER WAY YOU DON'T CROSS IT - nothing difficult about that little road safety tip. However Chris yours is a pretty lame response considering the rest of my post <smile> - I guess you understood the point I was making so thank you - kiss and make up? Rocket | ||
| Cj_xb |
Dyna, I'm sure it isn't always unsafe for better riders (not me), but you know I'm probably not going to cross the yellow line. I've found MOST of the time when I ride even if I can't see anything coming, I might not have enough time to get around the vehicle without the possibility of something coming around the corner fast and hitting it head on !! So I don't really do it !! Who knows what I'll be doing 5 years down the road though !? Rocket, I only post BS and I don't post anything that is private to me, only things I'd tell the WHOLE world so I wouldn't comment on some of your post !!  But your right I don't know you and you don't know me, so hey I'll lighten up! (darn it, have to go back to being nice!!) As for this being a male dominated board, I lived with a husband for many years, and have two grown boys that we raised, all different strong personalities, so I'm not uncomfortable with it !! Being old helps too, you get comfortable with yourself and don't let as much bother you as when your young, at least I have !! Gotta actually work today, so no more playing on Badweb !! CJ  | ||
| Blake |
JQ, Racing engines often spin to 5,000 fpm mean piston speed. You do understand the difference between racing and street engines do you not? | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
I own a 03'ZX6RR (for 600supersport racing) and I hate to say it but ridden well, IE:keeping the revs where they work, I can walk my XB12S. The ZX6RR at revs gets BLINDINGLY fast on roll on. In a roll on test for a magazine, you can't downshift, but in the real world you can. On a track you can keep the revs where they belong for the best acceleration. So that kind of a spread doesn't suprise me. I will however probably be able to give a report in a couple of weeks what its like running the ZX6RR on the same track as the XB12S. | ||
| Glitch |
what its like running the ZX6RR on the same track as the XB12S. That'll be cool. | ||
| Boulderbiker |
Just something to take note of, our friend Mark Godfrey raced an R6 prior to this last season, and he said the handling is comparitively so much better on the bolt that he was even turning better times on his XB9R. | ||
| Dynarider |
I own a 03'ZX6RR (for 600supersport racing) and I hate to say it but ridden well, IE:keeping the revs where they work, I can walk my XB12S. The ZX6RR at revs gets BLINDINGLY fast on roll on. In a roll on test for a magazine, you can't downshift, but in the real world you can. On a track you can keep the revs where they belong for the best acceleration. So that kind of a spread doesn't suprise me. I will however probably be able to give a report in a couple of weeks what its like running the ZX6RR on the same track as the XB12S. OMG!! An honest person?? Those top gear roll on tests are ridiculous. A bike that tops out at 150-160-170 mph isnt even anywhere near the peak of its power during such tests. Like you said, ride them the way they are supposed to be ridden & its bye bye. Look what happened earlier this year in the race at Daytona, a CBR600 that was 7-8 yrs old..something like that..competed against the new Buells & it flat out smoked them. The Buells are nice bikes, the 12's have some nice torque & they are very sharp looking. But to compare them against race bred bikes is crazy. Look at the pros that race in several classes..now I dont follow racing very closely at all..but I believe Higbee races both Buells & Suzukis & what I have seen is that he is faster on the same track with the Zuki than the Buells. | ||
| Rocketman |
21 years ago a friend bought a new GPZ 1100 B2. Back then it was the fastest thing since sliced bread. 70mph top gear roll-on my 750 Morgo Chop would smoke the Kwak 90-100mph. I'd geared the Chop for draggin - 106mph flat out. Nothing could touch it standing start 1/8th mile. Rocket | ||
| Boulderbiker |
Of course they're faster in a straight line, but these aren't drag bikes, their curvy line bikes, thats how something like what we heard about in cycleworld a couple years ago can happen. The underpowered Buell walking away from the RC-51 and R1, cause its so good in the corners. Of course none of us are gonna pretend this thing can hold a candle in a straight line. Thats not why I bought the bike, heck for a couple thousand less I could have bought a gsxr-1000. But to be honest, going fast in a straight line loses its thrill very quickly, while the thrill of the corner and that it can always be taken a little faster, now that endures, and that among other things is why I bought a Buell, and thus far there is scarcely a bike on the road that in stock form can keep up with a Buell in the corners. | ||
| Jrh |
I remember that article different than you,if i'm thinking of the same one,the riders on the R1 and Rc51 couldn't shake the Buell off their tails and it was on a super tight track.I can't find the magazine to check it though,i could have a bad memory. Sportrider's website,top gear roll on 60-80mph shows;Buell 9R-4.94 seconds,12R-3.98,RC51-4.23,R1-2.79,GSXR-1000-2.70 Cycleworld and Motorcyclist show roughly the same.Buell isn't YET even close to the latest in-line 4 acceleration,even with no downshifting. | ||
| Boulderbiker |
It was in a california canyon, not a track, and it was from two different articles by the same magazine. One was a comparo between the 900SS and the XB9R and the other was just a test of the Buell on the whole. In one article a chase bike was an RC-51, in the other the chase bike was an R1. The first time they were surprised and a tad confused when the RC-51 couldn't keep up with the Buell in the twisties. They dismissed it as a fluke. In the other later test between the 900SS and the Buell, the R1 chase bike couldn't chase the Buell, and they realized it was no fluke. The bike is just that good in the corners. Both tests were by the same group of riders, and no matter who was riding which bike the results were the same, when the canyon started the Buell kicked butt. | ||
| Blake |
I thought the WHOLE point to a roll-on test was to give an indication of acceleration from a cruise, without having to downshift. Dyna, The F2 was faster because it had a nice aerodynamic full fairing. The class leading fully faired Buells all had problems of one kind or another that kept them out of the race. Mike Cicotto broke the shifter on his Hals XB9R. The victory was a good one for the F2 and its rider, but it was not due to any advantage in HP. At Daytona, aerodynamics is king. But it is great to have all manner of bikes competing. That is teh intent of FUSA, to enact class rules that allow parity among a large number of differently configured machines. The competitiveness of the F2 is a wonderful testament to that. Rules to promote variety and fairness for all the racers and configurations of machines. I think though that a Buell won more than their share of races this past season in FUSA Thunderbike. My only comment is that... an F2 doesn't really fit my perception of a "Thunderbike"; a "Screamerbike" maybe, but certainly not "Thunderbike." I guess you conveniently forgot about the XB9R stomping, on its first ever race debut, the field at Loudon last year in FUSA Sportbike? That is a much better and fair event to compare the relative attributes of a Buell racebike to a 600cc IL4 racebike. Buell won due to rider skill and superior handling and competitive power. In a straight line, a stock 600 repli-racer will beat a stock Buell. We all know that. If anyone bought a Buell thinking it was the top peak speed bike on the market, they goofed big time. I cannot believe this same discussion is still thriving. It's only been what, going on six years now? Poo poo the Buells all you want. I'd rather ride a Buell, specifically my '97 Cyclone, than any other bike on the market. If peak speed is your thing, there are a few choices to ponder... GSXR1000, ZX12R, Hayabusa. ALL the other bikes currently available are inferior in their acceleration performance to those three. It isn't crazy to compare a Buell against a 600cc repliracer. It's crazy to indict a Buell in such a comparison over the mere fact that it has less power or peak speed. Not many Buellers care about that performance aspect of their bikes. I sure don't. What I do care about is stuff like roll-on performance. You see I hate having to downshift every time I want to accelerate. I suppose I could ride around on a 600cc bike in third gear, but I hate the sound of the turbine level revs that entails. It irritates me to no end. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
I bought my Buell as a daily rider. I bought it because it represents the style of bike I grew up around. I am a classic cafe bike person. That is why I bought the lightning over the bolt. I bought the ZX6rr for tackdays. Its fun on the street but that wasn't why I bought it. No for street riding I will take my buell and I could care less if I am not the fastest out there. I got my cafe bike with a harley powerplant which is what I wanted. | ||
| Nevco1 |
for street riding I will take my buell and I could care less if I am not the fastest out there. I got my cafe bike with a harley powerplant which is what I wanted. Now this is the Honest-to-God reason why we ride Buells. They work in the real world and are as fun to tweak (at a much more affordable price) as an old hot rod. Competition among Buells and other bikes in their class is just a natural extension of the excitement. Some do it and some don't. I just love to run the mid range power band in the twisties as it is so very controllable. Buells are by far the smoothest and quickest bikes I have ridden in that environment. Don't feel the need to wring it's neck in the connecting straights as that invariably seems to be where the radar is. Drags, wheelies and stoppies are not my forte either. Too much of that as a kid and wish I had all that money back now. LOL. Just want a long lasting, smooth running torque machine to keep me smiling in the tight stuff for years to come.  | ||
| José_quiñones |
1. The top Buells had nice aerodynamic full fairings too, and those were designed in 2002, not 10 years ago. You would think the aerodynamics would be better with the newer design, right? 2. Like you said it wasn't the horsepower, The top two Buells dynoed at over 110 Horsepower, while the F2 Dynoed at 98, in qualifying. 3. No the reason that that old CBR600F2 qualified on the Thunderbike pole with a new FUSA Thunderbike track record for Daytona of 1:58.535 was probably mostly due to its rider, Michael Barnes. Mike Ciccotto was just four tenths off that that time on his XB1350R, but he was disqualified because his bike went over over its HP limit on the dyno after qualifying. Dave Estok was third qualifier at 2:00.99 on his XB. Here is how RRW described the start of that race: "Far from unusual, attrition played a big role in the Thunderbike final but actually started before the race. Ciccotto, Estok and Darren James all could not make the start due to mechanical problems. Estok's bike stuck in fifth gear, Ciccotto broke the shifter off his Buell and James' bike lost all of its oli on the parade lap" That was in October of this year. Not one of the greatest days in Buell racing, by far. This week, various factory teams are testing at Daytona. Steve Rapp, on a 2004 GSXR600 with a "bone stock" engine, lapped in the 1:55 range. Street bikes vs Race Replica street bikes, Apples vs oranges....... edited by josé_quiñones on December 08, 2003 | ||
| Fbolt |
Geez, I bought my Firebolt because the dealer said it was the fastest bike out there. He also said that in a year, I can trade my bike for a real bike, a Sporter! I can't wait!  |
