| Author | Message | ||
     Buckinfubba |
let me first say that this wasn't the best day to do dyno's in ol NC. I rode in in a raging freakin storm. didn't know til I got here that I was riding in tornado warning. But I made it safe even tho I ran right smak over a dead deer carcass on the highway at about 80 mph. A lil hump off the seat and straight away the lil bolt went. The reason I say it wasn't a good day is simply this. We have a big fan in the dyno room that sits right in front of the bike and blows at 60 mph to simulate riding down the road. This fan brings in outside air. well it was 100% humidity dease wet air . that is never condusive to big numbers but. I got the test done ,same bike same dyno, same day, same weather, same operator. In other words a very controlled test. I will ask you not to post til I have everything up and posted. That way it will all betogether and then the discussion can begin. so with out further ado. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
here the 4th gear roll ons I have also done 5th gear since some do it that way. I will explain after     what I have done here is show and point out the difference between the 2 pipes. Granted the stock is from another time but this was about the 2 pipes anny way. this was done with race ecm and filter and 12 airbox.Hopefully this is not confusing with all my labeling on there. you can see peak torque is the same and that peak hp the drummer is better by 5.3 hp. I also show in the 2nd and 3rd pics the differences at 3.5 and at 4.5 k. what the fourth one is about is about the theory of relativity. Notice when put ina time factor up to top speed which one gets there 1st. In the 4th gear roll on the drummer is .7 seconds faster than the d&d. on the bottom you can see that the drummer is faster all the way across the speed range. and top speed is is 1 mph faster which is not a big deal. but if you notice when put in a time frame of running smooth power even tho it is less in spots moves the bike faster. | ||
| Bads1 |
Now Brian march back in the dyno room and put those pipes on a 12 and post results.lol | ||
| Buckinfubba |
Now here is the 5th gear runs. same set up as before.     alright now what you see here is peak torque that the d&d is 1 ft/lb better and the drummer is 5 hp better on the peak. the next 2 are to show the differences again in the 2 at different spots thru the rpm band. and then again the last one is the theroy of relativity. notice the top peeds are basically the smae but the drummer reach it 1.7 seconds fater and notice how the power curves when put in a time frame work them selves out. all this is pretty interesting to me. I don't know about you. But now you see why I was wanting smooth power over peaks and valleys. You can't deny which gets there faster. and also what happens when you put all things in perspective in the game. This is why I say dyno charts are helpfull more so than just gettin your numbers and curves. I think the whole power range must be looked at as one big picture. I will say that the D&D was an easy fit and bolted right up. I will also say that it is pretty dang loud also. I will say that even tho this could be argued forever because of all of our opinons. That low end loss of power does make a difference and when I was riding the bike I could feel it. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
Now to let you know how this was done. I reset the tps and AFV on both bikes and rode them for 20 miles each in the stinking rain before I took it into the dyno room. The reason I did this was to put both pipes in an even state of mind with the ecm. Since the weather was so crappy and thats what they would need so the ecm would be "learned" to the pipe. so the numbers on both would probably better all the way across the board but you can see how they both work. Now as gary said. Everybody send in money to cover both of our shipping cost of the pipe back and forth since this is what you wanted.hahaha oh yeah and my fee for risking life and limb getting here today in a damn storm is $25. thats about all my life if worth  alright now let it rip and let the discussion begin. oh yeah the drummer is $350 the D&D is $595 and 10% discount puts it at $535.50 plus shipping thanks everybody Brian 1/2 of the lil drummer boys and resident buell wierdo at Tilley hd/buell buckinfubba@hotmail.com 704-872-3883 | ||
| Buckinfubba |
Dana what did I say about letting me finish.  Baliff wack his peepee  | ||
| Squiz13 |
Brian, Whats the drummer look like and whats it made of ? How much to post to uk is the third daft question  | ||
| Blake |
Great stuff! Thanks for all your effort on this. It deserves a place in the KV Dyno Test Results section for sure. One thing the tests show is that without the interactive valve thing that Buell now has, it is awfully tough to tune a slip-on muffler for all parts of the torque curve. The Drummer kicks butt down low and up high. The D&D rules the mid-range. Thanks again Brian.  | ||
| Squiz13 |
and this is a good demonstration of the need to have a BACK TO THE TOP button at the bottom of each page  | ||
| Bads1 |
Blake that was running on a xb9 not a 12.Am I right Bubba | ||
| Skully |
Hey Brian, Good work! The Drummer does very well against the D&D ESPECIALLY when price is considered. If you will mail those charts to me, I will scan them in color and post them. Thanks again for your efforts! Keith | ||
| Buckinfubba |
oh yeah and I forgot the most important point about todays test. It really didn't have anythig to do with the test. while I was driving in today in the storm and tornado warning. I didn't take my usual fun route thru the country. I took the highway. Well I-77 is a major highway on this side of the country and it is always packed with semi's. Well I am looking thru my full face stuck behind a semi throwing up all kinds of water and we are passing another semi in the slow lane . so needless to say I can't see shit! well out of the mist all of a sudden taking up most of the lane is a dead deer carcass. well nuthing to do but hold on. wham bamm my ass if off the seat my feat almost leave the pegs, my heart has stopped and onward the lil bolt runs. so if ya'll were worried about how that short wheel base and steep rake will handel such a situation.....well the guinnea pig (thats me) can tell ya it does fine. Coulda been luch on a sunny day but I had places to go and test to run. all for you... ain't I just a great guy!!!!!!! ok maybe foolish but not great. | ||
| Daves |
Glad you are OK Bubba. Ride to the edge! Dave | ||
| Buckinfubba |
yes it was on a 9 not a 12. when the drummer was ran on a 12 (dyno back in the updated revisions thread) it actually was smoother than the stock pipe with the valve. and gained just a hair. keith email me your address and or fax number I could fax them also. ofcourse if you need the colored lines I can mail them. | ||
| Xb12r |
I can say i have a 12r and I am running the drummer pipe I dyno with the drummer open air box and the d&d pipe that brian used for testing,the best results were drummer and closed air box,may be with a power com I can richen the bike up for the cai air box and a drummer give me time ??? what is are next topic/ will I get more money for my D&D now its been on brian bike/ HA HA HA | ||
| Buckinfubba |
squiz Go to the "update and revisions on the drummer" thread go to the november 16th archive and see it on opto's XB12S in austrailia. it is modified out os the stock can. I've just shipped to belgium via air mail which is the cheapest and it was something like $55. ups is much more expensive. If you want to see the dyno's of the drummer on a 12 go to the 3rd oct. 15th archive to see the drummer on the 12. | ||
| Xb12r |
BY the way still no warranty on my bike from my dealer/because I have an after market pipe and a full faring.have to drill my seat bolt out this weekend to play with the air boxes. lucky to be me? Brain glad all was well and dont hit the carcass on the way home, gary  | ||
| Buckinfubba |
gary I need your address to send the pipe back to you. email me buckinfubba@hotmail.com | ||
| Bluefirebolt |
I should go to bed now,i just noticed that you send the drummer to me! Now i wont sleep at all! Where is the F****g postman? It's now 0.50am local time overhere! how much longer must i wait. Brian when it's here i'll let you know and send some pictures. | ||
| Oconnor |
Three cheers for Buckinfubba!!!! Hey Brian, tell your boss that your the reason we support his HD/Buell shop instead of the ones by our houses. | ||
| Az_m2 |
Buckinfubba . . . GOOD WORK MAN ! | ||
| Spiderman |
GOT DAMN!! Who said Bubba ain't got no tallent?? Great Job Bro!! | ||
| Kaese |
Brian how proud of you we are for persevering. I would have called it a day when it started raining, let alone Mrs Doe. The bad part is that you really knew the results before you started. Thanks for giving proof to the world!! | ||
| Blake |
Dana, Yes, I realize the dyno testing above is for an XB9 and the muffler valve is for the XB12's only. What I mean is that you can see the need for a variable geometry exhaust tract to be able to achieve optimum low, mid, and high rpm performance. What Buell did with the still non-optimum stock muffler on the twelve was basically to combine the outstanding low and high of an acoustically attenuated drummer and add the valve open tract that is more akin to a super quite D &D can. You get the best of both worlds. I'm thinking that if Brian and his friend can work the same type of magic on the stock XB12 muffler, but leave the functionality of the valve intact, he will have something even better than the current Drummer. He will have the outstanding high and low speed performance of the Drummer coupled with the meaty mid-range of the D&D. And THAT would really be something! What do you think Brian? | ||
| Blake |
I guess the problem is getting a race ECM that will activate the valve.  Hmmm... could you piggy back the stock ECM and leave all output circuits open except the one for the valve actuator? Shoot, how tough could it be to find the proper algorithm and voltages to control the valve. I bet that if you ignored throttle position and just used the RPM it would work fine. Where's that Reepicheap master of things electrical when we need him? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Right here. The outputs would be easy. Could the input could be as simple as a tach pickup? That would also be pretty simple (a 1 chipper). If anyone wants to go down this road, I will help. Even before Buell showed us the new valve on the XB12, I had spent some time thinking about how an adaptive exhaust could be built into a tube framer, mainly because Aaron did such a good job of teaching me why such a thing would be so cool. And don't forget Hootowl. We should drag him into this as well | ||
| Xb12r |
Brain my zip is 33315 gary | ||
| Glitch |
Great job Brian! I especially liked the theory of relativity runs. That (to me) is a better way to make a comparison.   | ||
| Buckinfubba |
Blake Your using too many big words for my head to comprehend. You are right tho that the valve does work. But I think the power band has some to do with stroke and copmuter . The only reason I say this is because with the race ecm and filter and drummer on a 12 it was actually smoother than the stock only because there were no valve transitions. It gained a lil bit also. so I thinkg with the ecm and stroke length on the 9 that is whats creates the not as smooth as silk power band. I could be wrong. But I'll tell ya what If some of you electrical gurus come up with a way to piggy back the race ecm thingy to get the valve to work. We will see what we can do with the drummer. But you also have to remember that the reason the drummer works on the 12 is.."how do we do it" Volume Volume Volume. because the inside of the stock cans don't have near the amount we have because they have to meet govt. restritions and all that. That is why they used the valve . so they could get that power out of a very restrited pipe that they were forced to make because here in america we only have so much freedom. The epa is full of people that don't want us having fun. I'd bet if the folks at buell didn't need to conform to standards and practices to the epa. The stock pipe would be much more fun. and dare I say more like the drummer. Hell I don't know its early in the morning and I need  btw I did like "acoustically attenuated drummer" that big word I understood! | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Reepi, I'll travel that route with you if you want to go? I've got no real world experience in this realm, but I do speak I/O PLC -- mostly Siemens. You're right and with some trial and error (I'm a trial and error specialist ) we could do this. Greg |
