| Author | Message | ||
     Elvis |
I've been keeping a pretty close watch on the press coverage. I can't remember the details (if anyone can, it'd be great to have a link), but there's only one time I can remember in which the XB's were run head to head on a winding track that really tests handling with quantifiable lap times. As I remember it, the XB9 beat all but one (Honda?) of the best 600's Japan had to offer, and the author commented on how hard he had to push the ( Honda? ) to squeek by the Buell. Since the riders were clearly more experienced and familiar with the Japanese bikes, that article left me wondering what the XB could do with someone who was more familiar with it. Since that article, all I've seen are comments by authors regarding the "feel" of the XB's which is clearly different than the cookie cutter bikes the authors are used to riding. None of those article have taken the step of actually running the XB's on a winding course since that very early article. Based on the quantifiable evidence I've seen, it seems highly likely that the XB9's can run with the best of the best on winding courses. Since the XB12's should have nearly identical handling with more power, they should be able to do better. Until someone proves otherwise, I have to believe, based on the evidence I've seen, an XB12 can probably perform as well or better than the best bikes in the world on a tight course. Most magazines seem satisfied with basic info. such as peak horsepower values and quarter mile times and rarely evaluate the handling of bikes with relieble, quantifiable testing, so we may never see a good evaluation of Buell's handling, but if we do, I'm betting it's more than impressive. | ||
| Court |
>>>Keep in mind that Harley is a very successful company on Wall street, not the race track. That is an accurate statement. As one who purchased HD stock when it was in the pits and intends to retire off it, let me add...I could give a flying rats ass how Harley-Davidson does on the race track. The point is what?.....Harley is a favorite among stock analysts so Buell are unstable at speed? Let me guess we are headed to that thing my probality and statisctics prof did years ago that proves golf balls and eggs are "dependant events". Please, buy a Hayabusa and go somewhere (the internet offers plenty of places to play fantasy biker) and brag about how it goes 200 MPH. Court | ||
| Dynarider |
enables the owners to get tatoos  True love, right Crusty? | ||
| Blake |
Gr8wheels, "Thanks for proving my point about the bias thing." The only bias I've shown is towards objectivity and honesty. Your statements remain refuted by the facts presented above. Sorry you are unable to discuss the Buell products honestly and objectively. I would welcome that. The bikes are not perfect; I would like to see some debate on what we as potential customers would like to see change/evolve/improved in the current offerings of Buell. I simply rejected, using honest evidence, all the things you seem to want to offer as problems. They are only problems in your mind, not in reality. Your purely opinionated nonfactual enumeration of so called "problems" boils down to the simple and honest fact that you do not enjoy your XB9 like you had hoped you would. I can certainly accept that. I however refuse to accept the fabricated list of "problems" you have proffered. If you want a racebike replica to ride on the street, then please by all means continue your efforts to sell your XB9 and then use the proceeds towards the purchase of a new British, Italian, Austrian, German, or Japanese repli-racer or whatever other brand and model of bike tickles your fancy. But don't unleash your very personal disappointment in a flurry of fallacious and ridiculous derisive fabrications against Buell, and now it seems Harley-Davidson as well. "Harley has been able to outsell the others in their category in spite of the FACT that their bikes don't do anything as well as most of their competitors." I'm not a big Harley-Davidson cruiser fan, I've ridden two in my life, one a 1984 FXR and the other a 2000 Night Train. Both impressed me significantly with their high quality feel and cruiser oriented performance. Statements like yours above betray YOUR extreme bias. Apparently your method for rating motorcycles centers entirely around magazine performance numbers and racing results. Did you compare ease of maintenance? How about fuel efficiency? Aesthetics/style/appearance, some of the PRIMARY features important to cruiser bike owners, apparently have no bearing whatsoever in your evaluation criteria. And even in the performance category, is it really true that the products of Harley-Davidson are inferior to most other cruisers? No, it is not true. Sounds like what you want is a bike just like a GSX-R600. I bet there is one for sale near your neighborhood. Elvis, Excellent point. The article to which you refer was the street course testing performed by Mr. Don Canet of Cycle World fame in his effort to help grade a cache of non-repli-racer street bikes. He was only able to best his XB9R's time by a mere 0.07 second and by admittedly having to "rev the pee out of the (CBR600F4i)." In honest statistical terms (each bike had three goes at the course under the capable piloting of Mr. Canet), the result was a dead heat between the CBR600F4i and the XB9R. So contrary to your assertions, the XB9R equaled the tight handling course performance of a bike that weighed less and had at least 10 additional HP. The XB9R exhibited superior performance compared to other bikes with far more HP, bikes like the FZ-1 not by mere hundredths of a second, but by over 2-seconds. It is a pity the bike was as Gr8wheels asserts, "unstable", imagine how much more quickly it might have gone if Canet had been able to keep it under better control.  I wonder how an XB12S would fare in the same street handling test? Is there any reasonable doubt that it would perform SIGNIFICANTLY better?... Not in the mind of any honest and objective person. edited by blake on November 11, 2003 | ||
| Blake |
One more, this in the spirit of positive discussion... "I like the fact that an American co. makes motorcycles. I just want to see them do it better." I can agree with that. But so that we are clear here, would you please define your idea of "better"? | ||
| Smitty |
Elvis There was another article that said almost the same thing. I think the article was in Sport rider and it was at a press testing at the Arizona raceway . The Honda would pull away at the end of the straight .The Buell could come on the power in the turn earlier gaining back ground. I think the Honda was a RC 51.Im looking for the article.I will let you know what the scoop is. Blake: You are correct Sir. Better depends upon which side of the fence you are on. The grass looks greener on the other side. edited by smitty on November 09, 2003 | ||
| Court |
Motorcycle Online, me thinks, is what ye seek. It was one of the print mags that had a bit of a problem when they used the Buell as a "chase bike" during a 600 Sportbike shootout and the frickin' Buell (chalk it up to the Angeles Crest twisties) kept passing the subject bikes. All the current crop of 600's (and the rest as well) sportbikes handle fabulously. The Buell is among that crowd and may (a bit subjective here) be the benchmark. | ||
| Coyote_xb12s |
This month's Cycle World has an naked bike comparison that puts the 12S on the same track as the triumph triple and ducati monster. Haven't had a chance to read it. Anyone had a chance to? | ||
| Smitty |
"Exotic Zoo,Exotic View" The MV Agusta Brutale , Buell Lightning, Ducati Monster S4R. " Naked & Naughty. Nice read. All 3 have strong and weak points. | ||
| Blake |
Court, Actually it was an RC51 and a YZFR1 that the XB9R was able to reel in on the twisty CA backroads. Yep, was reported by MO. That was a great commentary on the virtues of handling over power. Coyote, Not a Triumph in the CW naked comparo, it was a $14K MV Augusta IL4 750cc naked superbike, and to clarify, the other bike was the $13.5K Monster S4R (also a naked superbike). Read more about it at http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/4062/39659.html | ||
| Buckinfubba |
It helps to draw the attention away from the lack of the bike's ability to compete in its class. Keep in mind that Harley is a very successful company on Wall street, not the race track gr8 you are correct in the fact that you are selling your bike. It is obvious it is not for you personally. It ain't for everybody but. how competeitive are you in your class. I am 40 fat and old and in the twisties of the mountains in North carolina. I can burn, and do regularly, r6's r1's cbr's you name it. Is it the bike or the rider. Must be the rider since the XB's suck so bad. come on man no marketing EVER SAID it was the fastest bike on earth. NEVER EVER NEVER EVER. and the day you got sold by the marketing, ...well we are all adults and make our decisions. I am not defending the xb's and saying they are the best bikes ever. Who can actually say what is the best bike ever.... ANYBODY BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE OPINONS. and you are entitled to yours. but to say they are not competive in thier class you must specify what part of competitive you are talking. Because in thier class the will kick the crap out of most in the handling in the corners. and if I recheck my marketing memory...thats how they are marketed. | ||
| Brucelee |
It is a shame when a guy makes a mistake and buys the wrong bike for him and then feels compelled to slam the bike to justify his mistake. Hey, the 9s handles better than any of the 50 or so bikes I have ridden in my life. No issues at all, just great riding. Having said that, when I sold my 2002 ninja after 6 months, I did not feel compelled to rag on Kawai. I simply did not like the bike for my type of riding. Some folks just love to hate something. | ||
| Sarodude |
The most interesting thing about that MO article was that no matter who was riding which bike - the XB was quicker. Even one of the riders who HATES the XBs handling (MiniMe?) was quicker on it - much to his surprise (or dismay). -Saro | ||
| Glitch |
Just my two cents... I have ridden my XB9S since April, putting almost 12,000 miles on it. These miles have been on every kind of pavement, from bumpy to smooth, from twistie to straight, in all kinds of weather ('cept snow and ice 'cause we ain't got none). And yes the handling was nervous at first, but that was because I had it set up wrong. So I sat down with my manual and set everything the way the book said. It got better. Then with patients I tuned it from there, again using the manual. Since then I've not ridden a more rock solid, better handling bike. Therefore, whenever someone says that the handling isn't what it should be, I think they don't have it set up right. The suspention is too adjustable to say it anything bad about it. If someone doesn't want to take the time to dial in thier XB, or is too lazy to, they'll get what they deserve. There are other bikes that don't let you adjust anything but rear preload, maybe that's what these people want/need. OOppss...I guess that was a nickles worth... Keep the change... | ||
| Tripper |
but you ride so slow Glitch.  | ||
| Glitch |
 | ||
| Buckinfubba |
oooooooooooo tripper why you be so mean to poor glitch.....he just wishes he was back here in ol nc..... | ||
| Tripper |
he knows I'm being silly. Glitch: You missed a nice day at TWO yesterday. You taking Veterans day off? Ping me if you can ride tomorrow. | ||
| Glitch |
What is this thing you call "day off"? | ||
| Tripper |
unemployment! | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Too funny Tripper LMAO -- I haven't worked since October the 5th and haven't missed it either  On handling. Guys, and gals, I'm really confused now and need your help! On my M2 doing a daily commute, or just cruising, I'm always powershifting, while trail braking, going up/down hill, in the apex of every turn. Now, the problem is my $12.00 WalMart book bag keeps throwing my iPaq, dig camera, phone, water bottle, and Copenhagen all over the place. This is quite obviously a problem with the Buell Motorcycle. This issue must be addressed! I just can't believe the poor engineering that went in to this product. I've also noticed that when I'm running up state road 181 (Glitch knows what I'm talking about) towards the Blue Ridge Parkway the kids on the 170HP sleds won't get out of the left lane when it's available -- I try to be sociable and so as to not push those in front I just go ahead and pass them. I sure wish they would move over so I don't slow them down on their blazing ascent to the top. I can only imagine how bad ya'll on XB's are slowing down sled traffic on our twisties From this day forward I will only read American Iron (great tech stuff) and the rest can sit on shelves. I'm willing to bet that the majority of the article authors are in the clue free zone when it comes to motorcycle ownership -- a much different animal than testing a bike for a few hours. My M2 is without doubt the best motorcycle I've ever owned and I've had my share (still have a few out in the barn now .) | ||
| Aesquire |
When I bought My Cyclone, the conventional wisdom seemed to be " not the fastest bike, but eats anything else in the twisties". That statement seems to be true, except that the XB series bikes handle better. I know, I rode a XB9R, and it DOES handle better. I don't race on public streets. I don't care what you saw, who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes? I have noticed that racer wannabe's on repliracers run away from me in the straights, (maybe because I won't chase em) and I have to slow down to keep from running them over or making a pass that would scare the $^&* out of them in the curvy bits. Nothing makes me laugh like a squid on a GSXR-1000 looking over his shoulder as he squirts up past 100 mph on the straight (again) to run away from the Buell that keeps catching his little pack in the corners. Or is that just me? | ||
| Buell_168 |
Great write up BLAKE. You said it all for me. There is a bike for every type of riders. I hate to see people who is bias on makes of bikes. When I first started to ride all my bikes were full fairing Japanese croch rockets . As years past I had traded my 95 900 Ducati Monster for 98 Triumph Speed III then for a 03 XB9S. I love my XB and the other 2 before that. Guess I am a street/sport fighter type of guy. A guy I rode with the other day (Yamaha R6)said he don,t know why my friend is so stupid to buy a Moto-Guzzi V-11 Scura while he can buy a new Yamaha R6 for 40% less and better performance etc. Calling the Guzzi rider stupid really turns me off. Told the R6 rider he made a bad comment & the Guzzi rider is a pilot for Air Canada . At least he is not working as a lot boy in a car dealership like you. Some people just don,t get it. Is what you enjoy riding. I like all makes of bikes including my 1995 Made in India Royal Enfield Bullet. | ||
| Glitch |
BigDaddy: The problem you seem to have isn't Buell's. Just put the Copenhagen in your back left pocket, and all will be right in your world once again. Remember, it's a balance thing... | ||
| Court |
>>>My M2 is without doubt the best motorcycle I can prove it. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Court, You needn't prove it to me, but it would be a very interesting presentation. I can only compare my M2 to my Leatherman, Swiss Army Knife, Fluke Meter, BSD OS laptop -- strange comparison? Not really because I can do anything I need to with the tools at hand. | ||
| Court |
Great compariosn...."Buell M-2 Cyclone, the Fluke 77 of Motorcycles. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Bigdaddy... right with ya, but you forgot the Colt 1911. Bill "who spent every last penny of his first co-op pay check on a brand spankin new fluke 77" | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Yea, I traveled unarmed Fluke 77 -- you're giving me flashbacks! I'm presently using a 867B, but a 77 would work just fine :-) I would still use a 77 if I couldn't expense 'work-related' items. Later. Greg | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Glitch, I can't really ride today, but tomorrow I'll test your theory and report back. Thanks for the advice! Later. Greg |
