| Author | Message | ||
     Big_b |
I have an 09 XB12SS and would like to be able to do some upgrades to the exhaust and intake systems. I want to be able to tune the ECM and was wondering do I have any options? I haven't seen anything for the new Bikes. | ||
| Mr2shim |
You can't. Not as of yet. You'll be waiting a while I think. You can't tune most 08's on EcmSpy. Bike is too new really. Going to have to give it some time. (I'm talking about Ecm tuning) (Message edited by mr2shim on August 28, 2008) | ||
| Big_b |
That sucks it just runs so horribly under 3k rpms. And the older bikes didn't seem as bad. And with some tuning the older ones run soooooo smooth. I just want my new one to run like that. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Buell changed to DDFI3 fuel injection for '08. It is developed by a U.S. company called IDS (Intelligent Design Solutions) and can easily be re-mapped... but only by someone with a Buell Racing pass key. The dealerships (unless they race) were not given the key and therefore cannot adjust the stock ECM. Due to world-wide focus on the environment, H-D has gotten very strict with EPA compliance (maybe due to the threat of hefty fines, too), and this is an effective way to control "tampering". Eventually, someone will find a way to get in there and adjust it (like EcmSpy), but until then, unless you have a racing license, it looks like we're out of luck. There are other options like Daytona Twin Tec that piggyback on the ECM, but they are limited on what they can do, and require a dyno with wide-band O2 sensors to be used effectively. Be patient, it will come... but Big Brother is closing in and will probably be putting an end to all of this aftermarket upgrade stuff before long. Pollute while you still can! | ||
| Bombardier |
Have emailed IDS about incorporating a MAP sensor as the primary input instead of the TPS. The vacuum port is there so it may be as simple as a few software changes with modified fuel tables - or not. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Tim Blomenberg is who I have spoken with at IDS, he was very nice, professional, and helpful in answering my questions. He even e-mailed me an image of their logo so I could have it transfered to a decal to put on my bike.  | ||
| Rhun |
Did Tim Say why Buell wanted such a crappy, based upon an average of two per month threads that complain, mapping?? | ||
| Jettdawg |
Cool... keep us posted. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Rhun, It's called the EPA... lol | ||
| Eicas |
Big b - Give the bike a chance to break in, ... it will run better after several thousand miles on it. My '08 was much improved after 2,000 miles and is still getting better. Try the breather mod, it helped me, and it is cheap. Others have reported an improvement by changing to better or different plugs. Finally, as you ride it more, you will learn it's idiosyncrasies and will just naturally work around the stumbles and hesitation without thinking about it. My '08 is not perfect, and needs what you are asking for, but now that it has several thousand miles on it and I have gotten "trained", it is extremely enjoyable and fun to ride. | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
Eicas, I see you've made it to the 5th step. 1. Denial (this isn't happening to me!) 2. Anger (why is this happening to me?) 3. Bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...) 4. Depression (I don't care anymore) 5. Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes) | ||
| Big_b |
I have done the breather mod and it might of helped a little. I agree it takes time to break in and hopefully it will get better. Also what is the correct part number for the iridium ngk's? I have seen a lot of different part numbers for these bikes. | ||
| Dongalonga |
This bikes ECM/Fuel sucks compared to my old '03 9S. That bike ran like a champ. I still love my '08 but Buell shouldnt have messed with what worked so well. | ||
| Ctrucky |
Have you tried the Fuel Inj. mod., where you stop the recirculation of the case gases to the Fuel inj. system, and route them out to a drain, and add a small air filter to a hose, and run the hose to the fuel inj. recirculation inlet? This is a real good mod. for the stumbling under 3K RPMs! I am sure the directions for it are on the mods page. | ||
| Big_b |
Yeah I have done the Hose reroute mod, that's what I meant when I said breather mod (sorry). If it did anything its not enough to really notice. I haven't even got any oily snot out of the drain line yet. I don't think this is the under 3k rpm issue on the newer bikes. I'm pretty sure it's in the tuning. | ||
| Werewulf |
i traded my 08 and bought an 06, problem solved.. | ||
| Big_b |
Are the pin outs the same for the old and new ECM's? If the new bikes are wired like the old one's wouldn't it be possible to just change to the old system and use ecmspy? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm used to tuning import cars and we would use older obd1 ecm's in place of the newer obd2 units so that we could tune them easier. Of course the wiring was different and we would use a jumper harness so that we could use the ecm that we wanted. I just thought if they changed systems in the middle of a production year maybe they didn't change the wiring. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
I would guess that due to the changes listed below, the old ECM would not work on the '08 and newer Buells. New Timing System * The timer cover is eliminated, as the engine is now crank timed from a new crank position sensor, which eliminates the need for manual timing, reducing maintenance costs. The ECM actively monitors and adjusts timing based on driving environment. The new sensor makes 30 reads per revolution, compared to the previous two reads per revolution, for more precise control of fuel mapping and timing to conditions. New DDFI 3 ECM (Engine Control Module) * A new ECM with increased computing capacity. * DDFI 3 actively controls and monitors the TPS (throttle position sensor), IAC (idle air control), and timing. DDFI 3 automatically zeros the TPS and adjusts fuel metering for smoother idle, eliminating service intervals and reducing the cost of ownership. | ||
| Big_b |
Great answer but not what I wanted to hear. Maybe something will come out for the new control system in the near future. | ||
| Werewulf |
im just suprised the owners are taking it so calmly! the ddfi-3 is not ready for prime-time! | ||
| Easyrider |
Oke, go to your dealer and ask him if you could change your ECM for a earlier 2008 model, all the models 2008 (which have on frame build date 2007 have ECM's which are programmable (-; | ||
| Big_b |
I don't think it is that simple because of what Redbuelljunkie said. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
The earlier 08s (read DDFI3) are programable w/ ecm. The later 08s & 09s are not. An early 08 ecm should work on an 09, unless the 09's are totally different from the 08's. (Message edited by Paint shaker on September 05, 2008) | ||
| Mr2shim |
Unless you are 100% sure the chipsets are the same between the early 08's and later 08-09's I wouldn't bother. If the chipsets were the same then it would most likely be possible to reprogram later 08-09 ecm's. Which you can't. Best thing to do other than debate it over the internet would be to find a friend with a later 08-09, see if he/she would be willing to let you plug their ecm into your bike for a minute. | ||
| Mesozoic |
I've got an '08 and have read the ECM using ECMSpy successfully. The binaries have definitely changed though, because once I had the ECM flashed by the dealer, ECMSpy could no longer read many parts of it. This is simply because there's more tables, more data, and a new layout for the binary... it'll take some time for someone to reverse engineer it and expose the new tuning parameters. Regarding the rough running under 3K, if you think that's bad, try driving my 5.0 Mustang! Power and joy doesn't come without a cost! I'm used to big nasty cams and quirky idle/low speed driveability manners. I didn't buy an XB for the smoothness at low RPMs either. | ||
| Thepod |
With that in mind, has anyone successfully remaped the early 08s to reduce/eliminate the surging and improve the gas mileage? I have an early 08 and am thinking about getting the ecm reflashed, but I'm afraid that I won't be able to tweak it with ECM spy. Can anyone confirm that tweakage is possible and helpful for the early 08s, or should I just get the reflash and be done with it? | ||
| Easyrider |
TheoPod, Yes, it's possible I do it for daily work.. It really runs smooth, you also have to work on the timing table.. It feels like a jappanees bike )-: Smooth all the way.. | ||
| Caperken |
Easyrider -- Do you mean that a late 2008 XB12 can run smoothly under 3000rpm? Mine has an April 2008 build date. It was reflashed by the dealer before I picked it up and it runs great and gets mid-40s mpg. Above 4k, the engine is smooth and powerful. Below 3k, it's powerful and rough and it is not prone to surging. This being my first big V-twin, I thought that's the way it is supposed to run. Can it really run smoothly below 3k and still have all the power and flexibility above 4k rpm? | ||
| Easyrider |
Caperken, yes it can.. very easy, first priority find out if your ECM is programmable.. if it is find someone, that has a dyno and drill 2 holes in your headers, and put 2 separate wideband lamda's on it and start tuning it.. you will find out is running way to poor.. give it between 14-14.5 AF at low RPM there and see what happends.. | ||
| Caperken |
Thanks, Easyrider -- great advice. I'm hearing that the ECM for my late 2008 build date is not programmable, but I have the cable for ECM-Spy and the software for when the maps are designed. I'll try to locate a dyno, but I'm really isolated geographically. |
