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Lighting
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 10:02 pm: | 
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If you get someone to weld back on don't forget to explain that's the fuel tank, they have to empty all the gas and make sure there are no gas vapors trapped inside, usually it gets half filled with water and left overnight to release all fumes, after that have them part drill two small stress relieve holes at the ends of the crack. It's a very straight foward weld, not big deal, welding time 5 minutes, prep maybe 2 hours. If you want any other information just post, there are a few guys here AWS certified. (American Welding Society) |
Jfman
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 10:03 pm: |
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Run the bike dry of fuel, remove the gas cap and let the frame vent for a few days, get it it welded. |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 10:05 pm: |
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Do not lie. . . .to the dealer, to Buell or to your girlfriend.
Contact Buell Customer Service.
Tell the truth.
Easy fix |
Roadkingtrax
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 10:12 pm: |
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Court,
I have been on this forum for about a year, I trust your judgment when it comes to our bikes. Do you have a name I should ask for specifically at Buell customer service or anyone will do? Thanks...
P.S. The fiance will stay out of the loop for now... |
Iamarchangel
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 10:47 pm: |
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Buddy, this is what I do. Weld, not aluminum, not fuel tanks, but I know what needs to be done.
It's completely fixable. Different shops will use different methods to do it. Spend some time looking.
I would ask my local shop but only because my local shop did a frame weld and did a good job. I've seen some bad stuff around. A race shop will have experience with this.
Here's another thing. Check with Buell and send the pics. There is a slight problem with the weld and it may not be the fault of the crash. I wouldn't go out on a limb but there are weld inspectors on this forum so see what they say.
Here's what I see (all from the first picture): first, there's some spatter to the right of the crack. That's not necessarily a problem except you've got a welder who didn't clean his weld and there's no spatter anywhere else. That may indicate that his weld settings changed momentarily. Not always a problem but it could be.
Second, note the even stacking/ripple pattern on the weld to the left of the crack and the not so good pattern a little to the right of the crack (in between the spatter). Compare that to the weld on either side of the crack. Those are "worms", different. Something has happened to the welder's technique. Again, not always a problem but could be.
Third, look at the end of the weld pass on the far right. There's a crater there. Not a good thing.
So, not to be too critical since all these could mean nothing, it could be that the welder had a bad moment and the weld was not as good. Aluminum has interesting qualities different than other metals and the HAZ (heat affected zone) is more critical.
See what others say, and take it all to Buell. See if they'll cover it or split it.
It's fixable. |
Roadkingtrax
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 11:04 pm: |
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Thanks for the info....Should be a stack of dimes right? I agree with your opinion 100% it looks like a poor weld. I am not a welder but, as an aircraft mechanic I have seem some poor work, both weld and sheet metal. It will have to be addressed because its location is so close to the rear engine isolator bracket attachment point, it gives cause for concern. Initially I was stressing pretty hard about it from a quality/reliability stand point. It is fixable, the question is out of my pocket, or Buell's. |
Iamarchangel
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 11:32 pm: |
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You're welcome.
I really want to stress that all the above may have nothing to do with the crack. Sometimes 1+1=2, sometimes 1+1=11.
See what some of the others say. |
Dooley
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 01:47 am: |
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I bought an 06 12R to part out, it was from an insurance auction, bike was wrecked. Front forks were bent hard, anyways theres also a crack in the same location just longer going down the inside of the frame. What I thought was interesting is that the crack is directly in the middle of the weld, wouldn't it be more prone to crack outside the weld, I thought welds were stronger than the surrounding metal? |
Roadkingtrax
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 01:58 am: |
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Dooley, is the crack your describing in the same location as my frame crack?
Edit-Sorry I see that it is in the same spot, how far down did the damage go on the inside of the frame? I want to keep riding it but,...I have to wonder just how much it flexes when I corner hard and will it continue...
(Message edited by Roadkingtrax on August 31, 2008) |
Indy_bueller
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 02:21 am: |
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I'd double check on the warranty. Just because it was manufactured in April of 06 does not mean the warranty ran out in April of 08. It will run out two years from the day the bike was titled by the original owner. |
Iamarchangel
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 09:19 am: |
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HAZ (heat affected zone) is the area, depending on the metal and weld, around the weld. In this case, it would be about a 1/4" from the weld.
The HAZ is where the surrounding metal also undergoes molecular changes. It is not critical in most steels. It is critical in armour plate and aluminum.
That's why, as suggested in another thread to do with welding the triple clamp, heat treating certain metals after welding is so critical. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 01:04 pm: |
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Nope. Just give them a call. Be prepared with your VIN, model, year, all contact info (you and your dealer) and explain the facts to them. |
Ironken
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 01:50 pm: |
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A sound Al weldment doesn't necessarily need to have the "stacked'" appearance especially with the GMAW process, however, GMAW-P (pulsed MIG does produce a nice stacked appearance). Al is a metal that actually is weaker after welding unless heat treated after the welding process. The HAZ becomes annealed. The spatter spoken about above also doesn't necessarily mean a bad/improper weldment although it can indicate improper angle of filler wire in relation to joint. If that item were brought into me, I would ask these questions. Was the frame heat treated after fabrication? What Al alloy was used (there are tests for this, electronic and chemical)? Repair weldment positioning (the crack is transversal to the original joint, if you weld over the crack, you will produce a transversal stress riser almost as detrimental to the design as the crack, remember HAZ)? FUEL TANK! it is very possible and difficult to get vapors out, an argon purge is best, but, still a dangerous gig. Contamination, hard to get to the back side of the repair to properly clean the fuel residue off and will consequently be pulled into the repair. Would I do it? No. Is it possible? Yes. An idea (a poor one, but, from a stress riser standpoint) move the stress riser by repairing the crack and forming a plate over the crack and only weld, "long ways," avoiding a transversal weldment. I see the porosity as annother poster did. Could have been from gun angle and loss of shielding gas or contamination. I am no guru, but, I am AWS certified. My .02....Kenny
(Message edited by ironken on August 31, 2008) |
Roadkingtrax
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 03:25 pm: |
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I will talk to them Court, especially since the service manager of a Buell dealer told me to just JB Weld it. Thanks again angel and ironken for all of your technical insight. I am anxious to see what Buell will have to say in support of my bike... |
Ironken
| | Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 05:02 pm: |
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You are welcome, R-king |
Dooley
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 10:05 pm: |
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Roadking, My camera isn't working right now but my crack goes down to were the weld changes direction. But the bike was in a hard crash because both the front motor mount and top stablizer mounts were broken off the heads. the person I bought the bike from showed me the crack before i bought it, and he said that he had it looked at and they told him that it can be welded safely because it was the weld that cracked and not the frame. |
Roadkingtrax
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 10:15 pm: |
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Well perhaps that is the best way of saying it. My weld has cracked...
Update though, My insurance provider contacted me today and instructed me to get a repair estimate and then talk to an insurance adjuster to get it fixed or god forbid totaled for just a small crack. It will be covered under comprehensive so that is good news. I won't be taking it to any Harley/Buell dealer in town because they do shoddy work, there are trustworthy local independents that will do this repair. I'll hope for frame replacement and not just repair. I'll keep you all posted as soon as I know more.
(Message edited by roadkingtrax on September 01, 2008) |
Barnyard
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 10:59 pm: |
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I am not a AWS welder but I have been certified.(GMAW G6,SMAW G6) And what I see is improper post or even pre. welding looks like the weld has failed due to the HAZ from welding the bracket on. If you weld the crack it will just move your problem some where else. And If I were asked to weld it I would not.
1 to find the correct alloy and get the right filler would be very difficult.
2 to get the inside of the tank clean enough to weld it dam near imposable
3 after welding (if every thing went ok )cooling it back down to temp would be a very difficult task in it self.
I think a new part is in order. looks like welding from buell is the route cause. the mishap with the forks could of set off the crack.
I think the weld is part of the frame. You cant have one with out the other. |
Roadkingtrax
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 02:39 am: |
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New Frame is what I hope for...I will include the expert welder insights in my defense. I know aluminum is a different animal all together. I think it is time for my gas tank to once again grace our hands as Bud Light cans. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 10:27 am: |
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That crack is indeed in a high stress location especially for a front end collision scenario that caused the forks to bend. I'm wondering if the frame is heat treated after welding. If so, you'll need to do the same in this case too. Also, you'll want to be sure the proper filler alloy is used. |
Hooper
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 12:43 pm: |
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Man, I'm late to the party...I'll add my experience:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/354419.html
I was in a serious crash on my '06 Uly earlier this year (tried to jump a deer going 55mph). The insurance company (USAA) decided to replace the frame and NOT total the bike. I did a walkaround with the shop and determined that it was untouched. Well, not long after getting the bike back and filled full of fuell, I found the hairline crack on a weld, right side, near the top of the frame (so it would only leak when it was full). There seems to be a growing correlation between impacts and cracks. After weighing the advice of fellow BadWebbers and other mechanics, I decided to replace the frame in the interest of safety, and to maintain the integrity of the interior of the fuel tank.
So, I'm back on the road with a new frame. And no, I didn't ask to have the old one back so I could mount it on my wall in the den, next to the antler of the deer that lay down in front of my tire.
Looking forward to hearing the outcome, and if this is more common - good luck, Roadking. |
Ironken
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 12:49 pm: |
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Hoop, how did your frame fair in the crash? Did you get injured? |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 12:50 pm: |
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how much is a new frame? |
Semirgdj
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 08:50 pm: |
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Let the insurance company total it, take the money and then buy it back from them for a fraction of the cost and then get it fixed. You will have a salvaged title after that though. |
Hooper
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 12:01 pm: |
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The frame was $1100.
The dealer and I took a really good look at the frame before they started work and couldn't find a single thing wrong with it...the frame puck did its job and is still in great shape - they put it on the new frame. The front fork ends were scraped (wish I had sliders back then). I had the luggage on at the time, which absorbed all the damage to the rear of the Uly. So, I decided not to replace the frame. It wasn't until I got the bike back that I found the crack.
As for the rider, I was incredibly lucky and only suffered sore ribs, shoulder, and thumb, and a pretty deep cut in my thigh from some sort of rock or road debris. It was a very cold day, so I was wearing full armored gear and layers underneath, which had to have helped. ATGATT. I got right up, picked up the bike, and waited for the authorities as I tried to calm down the soccermoms pulling up to see if I was okay.
The deer didn't survive. Ulys are mean! The cop gave me its antler as a souvenir of my experience.
If you're really curious and have a lot of time to read, here's the post:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/375762.html?1203733863
(Message edited by hooper on September 03, 2008) |
Iamarchangel
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 04:33 pm: |
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If the frame is scrapped, I can't see a value in buying it back. You'd only have to do all the stuff that's listed above. You'd have liability issues if you resold it fixed or unfixed.
Welcome it back as a frame for Bud. |
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