| Author | Message | ||
     Lamo |
Has anyone tried identical maps on front and rear cylinders .Not wanting to open old wounds, but with me using an rss I'm assuming/hoping cylinder temps are more even.I can think of no other reason for the front and rear maps being different other than the different temps they run at,and before anyone flies off the handle I haven't measured the temps and I haven't had vapour locks in my fuel rail and I'm not saying the buell techs got it wrong I just think there's room for improvement. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Ding Ding.....Round 1. "I'm not saying the buell techs got it wrong" Ok, got it. "I just think there's room for improvement." So what you're actually saying is that the millions of dollars and hours upon hours of R&D they did at Buell isn't good enough? Then I'd say go right ahead and run both cylinders the same and report back on how that turned out for you. | ||
| Mr2shim |
Can.. check.. Worms. Check.. = Open There is always going to be room for improvement. That statement is beyond ignorant. (Message edited by mr2shim on August 26, 2008) | ||
| Buford |
After lots O logging and remapping with a pair of WB 02 sensors, there are differences throughout the fuel tables. My bike has a drummer and KN filter and when a target AFR of 13.6 is set for idle (seems most happy at this AFR..), this results in counts of 71F and 61R for rpms of 800 and 1000 in the lowest tps box. (15 8-bit) | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"There is always going to be room for improvement. That statement is beyond ignorant." I agree that there's always room for improvement, but arm chair ECM programming isn't the way to do it. | ||
| Barnyard |
"I agree that there's always room for improvement, but arm chair ECM programming isn't the way to do it." Do tell Do tell | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
ask Slaughter, he knows more than I ever will. But I'd bet my bike his advice wouldn't be to play with fuel maps unless you know what you're doing. | ||
| Retrittion |
Wow, a guy asks a question respectfully and some of you guys seem to feel the need to throw hissy fits. There is always room for improvement -- or was the belt upgrade not a good thing? Yeah, it was. And one does not need to be a engineer working for a company to improve a product -- take Carroll Shelby for example. Lamo said he COULDN'T see a reason other than temp difference for the different maps for front and rear -- he DIDN'T say there ISN'T a reason. He is supposing that using a RSS might make the temps more even front and back and thus negate the need for separate maps, either in part or full. It could be true, might be worth looking into, and the best advice I think any decent person here could offer him is: "Yeah, could be so, but without some testing I wouldn't suggest running identical maps on your XB since it could hurt your engine seriously, so leave them be until some data comes in that supports your thinking on the temps." Grow the heck up. If you don't like the question then don't participate -- your not bringing anything to the table by being a tit. If someone asks a question on this forum the least we can do is be polite, and if you really want to shoot for the moon, try being warm, welcoming, and helpful. It isn't the topic that causes problems around here, it's the "flamer-trolls-in-a-china-shops" that froth at the mouth at the slightest hint of a potential chance to get attention and be wankers to other BUELLERS. Shame on you. (Message edited by retrittion on August 27, 2008) | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
And by you're "flamer trolls" comment, that's ok though? You preach about handling things respectfully and say that? Get off the soap box preacher. Take your own words of advice about posting things that don't add to the thread, because what have you done here now? (Message edited by Buellinachinashop on August 27, 2008) | ||
| Slaughter |
The front/rear maps are not different just because of temperature but there's scavenging and other secondary issues to consider besides temperature. You really have to be able to read air/fuel from both jugs to check your thinking and I doubt that you'll find a shop with dual sniffers... and for your streetbike, it's just a pain to weld in a second oxygen bung. I can understand the reason for asking the question but I wouldn't try it... there's a lot at stake if you guess wrong and you won't be able to tell if one jug is too lean just by using a tailpipe sniffer. Yeah... you could get a rough idea but you can't REALLY tune these motors using just a single air/fuel value... otherwise both maps for front/rear really WOULD be the same from the factory. | ||
| Swordsman |
"but with me using an rss I'm assuming/hoping cylinder temps are more even." Pretty sure it has been "officially" stated that the cylinder temps are already nearly identical so long as the fan is functioning and the air scoop setup is stock. That's what got the whole "RSS is evil" thing started. Not poking anyone, I'm pretty much indifferent... had one myself for a short time. ~SM | ||
| Packrat |
Sometimes IT IS the topic, seems to me. Guy has a right side air scoop on his bike, which is giving him apparently NO PROBLEMS ! OK, so why even bring it up?? BY his admission, he doesn't even know if the temps are different between the front and rear...he hasn't even measured them !!! It is basically a useless, pointless thread, IMO....sitting around, nothing to do (apparently) and "wondering" what if???? Using the "search" feature would have netted Lamo a wealth of information, as the RSS and fuel mapping have both been discussed at length!! Have they not?? Sure they have, time and time again. So, my rant is over, been wanting to say something about the apparently useless posts, so now I've said it. Flame Throwers to the front !!!! | ||
| Lamo |
I asked the question had anyone tried identical maps and gave a little info as to my reasoning behind this ,if a person can't go to a forum and ask IMO a legitimate question without being slated what is the point of the forum ,I can get insulted at home from the wife .People like buellinachinashop if they have nothing positive to contribute should just hold their tounge and keep out of it , doubt that I,ll bother asking anything again so see ya | ||
| Swordsman |
You got that kind of reaction because that SAME question has been asked many times, and has managed to produce an argument every time. Almost every ECMSpy question on the board revolves around whether or not the front map should be the same as the rear. Do a search for ECMSpy and map, and you'll find all the debating you can stomach.  ~SM | ||
| Id073897 |
and for your streetbike, it's just a pain to weld in a second oxygen bung. Right you are. 10 minutes, and it's done. All four. Regards, Gunter | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I thought I read here or in Fuell that the rear cylinder temp can run as high as 100° hotter than the front BEFORE the fan kicks in? True or No? My thought would be that as soon as the rear cylinder temp would reach 10° higher than the front, the fan would kick in, but that would probably mean that it would run 90% of the time the motor does. | ||
| Slaughter |
Gunter, I don't have access to welder so had to take the pipes to the shop to have the second bung welded in place. It is the ONLY way to get a valid tune on both. Cost me $25 plus $5 for the bung. Pipes were already off of the bike. Not such a big deal as I made it sound. | ||
| Id073897 |
No serious tuner will go and weld any bungs at a customer's bike. Commonly a 3/8" hole is drilled followed by a rivet nut. This all is done within seconds. It needs much more time to make the customer agree in the drilling. Regards, Gunter | ||
| Bombardier |
Different length header will make for different fuel table front to rear regardless of temp. Equal length headers with same temps should equate to identical tables. |
