| Author | Message | ||
     Winslow |
Is it rude to talk to another salesman at a dealership after talking to one guy? I have talked to the same guy about a bike for a couple of weeks now, and he is refusing to budge on the price or throw in any riding gear to get the bike sold. I would think that if these guys were on commission (may or may not be), that they would be doing what they could to make a sale. Maybe it is the wrong time of the year to be asking for deals...I dunno. I know that when I worked sales and on commission in car audio, I would do what I had to do to make the sale...even if throwing in a $15 wiring harness and $15 dash kit that I had $10 in both pieces combined, or a set of tweeters, or whatever to get the money. Frustrating talking to a dealer about an 03 or 04 bike that has been sitting on the salesfloor new and they give me full MSRP. I then ask them, why would I buy a 4 or 5 year old bike for the same price I can get an 07 or 08 for? Not much answers to that question. Or even coming off $500 or pay shipping on a used bike that is $2000 over KBB. | ||
| Prowler |
Nope, not rude at all. I worked with one guy (over the phone, by the way) and got nowhere (about a hundred bucks off list for a new '07 Uly). Hung up, called back a little later and saved about $1500 by talking to a different salesman (I could hardly believe it myself). I told both of the guys I talked to that I would buy the bike sight unseen if the price was right. I guess the first guy thought I was kiddding......So this spring when I purchased a new 07 leftover STT from the same dealership,.....guess who answered the phone? I told him I didn't even want to talk to him, so he had the "good" salesman call me back. Got the STT for just a little over 8K. You should be looking out for you, not the guys at the dealership. They know what they can afford to sell a bike for. | ||
| Psychoxb |
Not to kill the buzz, What if he just can't give stuff away....Perhaps try to Negotiate a Percentage discount...Otherwise sometimes those guys suck penis and you should go to another dealer. | ||
| Winslow |
If they took the bike on trade, I would think they offered KBB trade value or less for the bike on trade (atleast that is my experience with car dealerships)...heck if they offered KBB value for the new bike, they are making $1000-1500 on the sale. To me, that is a lot of money...and a couple hundred bucks at retail pricing for a helment shouldn't be a deal breaker. I told the guy that I had my credit card in my hand and make me a deal I couldn't refuse. He said he wasn't making any deals. I was like ok, if you don't want to sell the bike RIGHT now, then that is cool with me if it is cool with you...but it's a done deal, and you can have a nice commission from just answering the phone. AFAIK the bike is still forsale. I might call back tomorrow and talk to someone else. Or I might just wait and see what else comes along. | ||
| Ohio_xb12 |
Talk to someone else. You owe them nothing. I just went through this trading my truck in. I got 2,000 more on the trade in simply by speaking to a sales manager. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
typically any deal through the shop would be approved or denied by the sales mgt. So the ouch line is drawn by them, not the salesguy. There is some flexibility in the price and everyone has a number in their head. If you have that and you come to me, we will see if it works, if not then maybe it is another bike that has the deal you are looking for. But, if you are getting two different sales prices in the same shop, I would get the bottom line signed off my mgt and buy the bike  . This is a great time to pick one up as the gas prices suck, the weather is nice (unless you are in PNW) and the 09's are right around the corner. Nobody wants 08 carry overs. Happy hunting. | ||
| 3reg3 |
Last time I checked the customer is always right. Is dealing with a different salesman worth $1000-$2000? It's nothing personal. That first salesman isn't going to be helping you pay for that bike right? Think about that before you sign on the dotted line  | ||
| Cityxslicker |
This one burns my biscuit. the customer is NOT always right, they are human and we all have faults, mistakes, off days, not enough sleep, too much caffiene, crummy hair days, mismatched socks, forgot our lucky pen, missed breakfast, ate too big of a McBiggieSized, may hate the color Breen (that combination of blue and green that has 57 names for it), rode to work in the rain, didnt ride to work because couldnt find the full finger gloves, dryer lint sheet on your back, bad glasses prescription giving headaches, seaseme street voices singing in the head, vernal equinox and global warming issues to deal with. Everybody has their own non denominational proverbial off kilter long non equidistant pole support to bare. I guarantee you that if you were quoted X price on the bike by one sales staffer, and y price by another, there is only one correct answer. Get the best price for yourself, get it signed off by authority (not some word from a green horn that may not know an S-1 from an XB9S) and get riding down the road. Happy hunting and safe Buelling. And on the KBB, it is a GUIDE. Nothing more, it never accounts for mileage, accessories, maintenance, local market desirability, economic quarterly issues, or customer history. Money on the table trumps the book everytime, there are some bikes locally that we actually buy and sell over KBB, and others that we never will. (have you tried to offload an SUV lately?) Really your only rule is that you shouldnt be paying new prices for a used bike. The KBB and $3.50 will get you a mocha venti half caf latte with whip, you can use it as a coaster. | ||
| Rainman |
[Customers] are human and we all have faults, mistakes, off days, not enough sleep, too much caffiene, crummy hair days, mismatched socks, forgot our lucky pen, missed breakfast, ate too big of a McBiggieSized, may hate the color Breen (that combination of blue and green that has 57 names for it), rode to work in the rain, didnt ride to work because couldnt find the full finger gloves, dryer lint sheet on your back, bad glasses prescription giving headaches, seaseme street voices singing in the head, vernal equinox and global warming issues to deal with. Hey, I resent being called "human." | ||
| Prowler |
In my case, I think that the first salesman I spoke to was thinking "I'll teach this lazy bastard for calling to get a price vs. coming in here to talk to me". So he threw me a stupid price. (I guess this happens a lot with car salespeople, also) I personally hate driving all over the countryside getting prices on bikes/cars, etc. I've purchased my last two cars and last four bikes over the phone. If the salespeople don't dick me around, I won't mess with them either. | ||
| Jos51700 |
Some people just come across as flakes and you can't tell that they are ready to buy. I fall for it too, abut I just don't have the energy to treat every customer like #1. It's hard not be too judgemental, sometimes. After dealing with 10 hopped-up methheads in a row, maybe #11 does have the dough (or the credit) to buy a bike, but I'll never know, and I can get involved and busy with methheads 1-10 and 11 walks because he thinks I don't care. It's tough. It really is. Add a boss who may allow someone else that he likes to do whatever they can to make a sale, even though you make the company more money, and things get worse. I don't haggle bike prices when buying for myself, but I do try to work with customers when they try to buy from me. I don't go to Wal-mart and haggle over a gallon of Milk (although I may have to start, sheesh.), so why are vehicles treated different? If I don't like the price, I'll look elsewhere. chances are i didn't need it anyway. If it's super-rare, then it's the same policy for me. But hey, if you found a guy that knocks off the price, that's fine, too. An '04 XB12Ss for the same price as an '08? and they're both new? I just wouldn't buy the '04! | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Thanks for the laugh Rainman Just a few from the floor from this last week. The MSRP on that bike is only 16995! I wont pay over that. (standing in front of an anniversary ultra classic with laced wheels, alarm, and ABS braking) Which is 24610.00. Customer had confused a black bare FLHT with a FLHTCU (Ann) its a big Harley, they are all the same There isnt a price tag on this bike, it must be free. (yep and lucky you we saved it for ya) I want that new Buell water cooled touring bike I heard y'all had.... where do I start with that one? This is the Vrod Touring bike! I want one of the new Harley Trikes by July 4th! Harley bought out Honda that is why the left the US | ||
| Ratbuell |
Cityx - your floor sounds about as entertaining as ours. Got my bits handed to me this morning because we had the nerve *not* to have a used Road King in stock (but none of the new ones I have would do). <sigh> "I want it all, and I want it for free".... | ||
| Retrittion |
Well, I have to respectfully disagree on the "Customer is always right" issue -- I grew up in retail sales (literally, my first memory is the office of my grandfather's furniture store in downtown Olympia) and I learned then and still believe that statement. Unfortunately I have noticed that the meaning of that statement has been lost in recent years. It doesn't mean they are literally always right, it means they are the person willing to give you money and the business does not exist without that person, that sale, that money. Thus you must do whatever you need to to make the deal that both you and the customer can abide by. This means that being a dick is out (sorry but the majority of HD sales people I have met are dicks, and I have told HD corporate and Buell CS that). It means you treat the customer, no matter what they look like, act like, or behave like (within certain limits of course, it's not your job to be a punching bag for some jerk). Ideally you should convey your appreciation of the customer's business and their choice to walk in you store and give you the chance to earn their business. Or, for the sports analogy, "the tie goes to the buyer". In practice this is about the most difficult job to do, and City points out perfectly why. Like any maxim it is the goal to shoot for but perfection just ain't gonna happen. Also, to be blunt, my experience with HD over the last 10 years is that they take me as a customer for granted and that mentality seems to have trickled down to the dealerships big time. I know many people (unfortunately) that buy non-HD cruisers because they refuse to be treated like crap by HD sales/service/parts people. I'm sorry but cute girls at the help desk or serving coffee doesn't make up for that. This is also why I don't think Buell will do well at HD dealerships -- the majority of HD salesmen don't like or know anything about Buells -- would you buy a bike from a salesman who treated you like a leper and didn't know squat or even like the bike you came in to buy? There are exceptions of course (take City, he is well known and respected around here) but they are exceptions. Bottom line, talk to whomever you can, go to every dealership you can, and get the best deal for yourself you can. It's your money. My $.02 Oh, and yes, I worked in sales many times and I'm good at it -- not so surprising when you grow up in it. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Retrittion, come out and ride with us sometime, OLy is not that far away Theres a local sportbike board that has some listings for rides and bike nites. I make it over to oly area at least once a month. (Message edited by cityxslicker on June 06, 2008) | ||
| Winslow |
Not haggling prices on a used trade in is like walking to a pawn shop and paying retail new prices for used items. | ||
| Skullym1 |
I never bought a bike or car where the salesman had anything to do with the final price. They have to make 50 trips back and forth to the sales manager or whoever else lurks behind the big desk in the corner. | ||
| Retrittion |
Sounds good City -- Luxor and I have been wanting to get out and ride but the weather lately...sheesh, I don't want to be rained on for graduation!  I'll try to find the board but PM me -- would love to get out and ride with some locals this summer. | ||
| Laserred |
Another gripe about Calumet Harley on this topic.... I bought my bike from them in June 07, and put 3600 miles on it. I asked the salesman what they would give me so I could step up to the 1125R they had on the floor... he said $6000. I said, "You just guaranteed I'll never spend another penny here." Hell, even if they paid off my Ss (about $10,800), they'd still be making a buttload on the 1125. Sigh. | ||
| Expatriate |
This is EXACTLY why I bought a used bike from an individual rather than the dealer. I got a used 03 XB9S with 1500 mi on it for $5500 in the fall of '05. I bought it off of Ebay and the only problem I have had is a snapped drive belt. I resent being treated like a bastard step child when i go to a dealership. My money spends the same as any HD owner. I go to the local dealer and its a toss up as to whether I will be treated as a customer or a bother because of the bike I own. I learned to cultivate a relationship with my service tech. He treats me fairly, gets my bike in very quickly and does a very good job. I avoid salesmen, they seem to be the source of the bastard step-child attitude and besides there aren't really any accessories for Buells carried by the dealers anyway, accessories seem to be best found in the realm of the internet. This BS-C attitude problem is a problem only seen at HD-B dealers, because my wife owns a Suzuki and when we deal with any of the Suzuki dealers they treat us just fine. If a dealer is trying to sell you an old bike ( even though its basically new ) for full MSRP and won't budge on the price, its time to find a new dealer or a new salesman. Or, order an '08 and tell him to find a soft spot to kiss. | ||
| Retrittion |
Hey, I actually spend more money and more time at a local metric shop than at any HD dealership -- and the attitude is the reason, both the sales people and the parts people don't know anything about Buells and none of the dealerships I stop in at have Buell specialist on staff. Service is iffy at best -- yeah they can be decent folk and all but most of them don't know enough about Buells to do the work right. Honestly, I could see this killing Buell if they don't change it. The metric shop on the other hand has parts people who are really interested in talking shop, and a couple of them have worked with me to figure out ways to adapt metric parts to my 12R -- a bike that they show more enthusiasm for than any person yet at a HD place (City is excepted because he's always with a customer when I swing by). Heck, I showed one of the guys at the metric shop my new SpecOps pipe and he thought it was the most kick a$$ thing he'd seen in a long time. Sometimes I wonder if HD remembers what it means to have people who love bikes working for them instead of the huge numbers of wankers they have now (once again, City is excepted) and their eye-candy girls. I like cute girls but it doesn't make up for treating me like crap and then acting like you don't. I know there are hard working salesmen who are nice people, and that they have to deal with a lot of stupid stuff (and people) too. I'm just sayin...  | ||
| Smoke |
just FYI, the owner takes a big hit on resale of 1 year old vehicle no matter what manufacture. i haven't seen too many people get a full return on their loan at sale, especially if tax, tags, license and a few accessories were financed at the same time. check out all the for sale publications for value of what you have for sale. good luck on getting that 1125!! you will love it. tim | ||
| Irideabuell |
This weekend I stopped at the local HD dealership and was chatting with the resident Buell expert salesman. He mentioned that he was responsible for a certain section of the sales floor and it didn't include the Buells. How foolish is that?!  | ||
| Echo15 |
I loved dealing with Seminole Buell here in Florida, but now they have been integrated into a huge HD dealership....sigh. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
ooooh I always have time for a Bueller, I sell bikes, I like to be busy, it pays the bills. But if a Bueller comes in, I will always try and make it over to chat even if only just to see the latest garage adds, the mileage count, and ride chats. 'have me PAGED!' I have tried very hard to turn our shop from having only 3 Buells a year (2003) to them being 10% of my customer base and riders. But guess who I go riding with all the time? The Buellers, it is where the fun is, they just seem to get it, its nice not to have to explain it. Standing invitation, come on over! If I cant get you the answer you are looking for on the bikes, accessories, gear, service, I will have it for you very quickly. And of course any day that it is not Raining we do demos Your clue that I am in, is my bike on the corner of the shop as you pull in  | ||
| Vtwinracing |
Anybody living in the PNW knows the market well. Ive always ended up going out of state to save money, esp used ones. The local dealerships know most people are too lazy to spend the time or effort to do this. But when you can get a new bike and ship it back for under MSRP total during say bike week in FL.. As for rude or not, do you value the savings of $500-1k or the opinion of some guy just doing his job that you wont see again. | ||
| Jaimec |
Walking back and forth to discuss a sale with their manager?? PUH-Leeze!! I remember when I used to believe that. Then I worked at a dealership. The first time the salesman told the customer that (I was working the parts counter) and walked into the back room I was wondering what he was doing because I KNEW the owner was in his office around the corner. The salesman was in the back room eating a sandwich! Every time he told the customer he had to discuss the price with the owner, he went back to have another bite. He wasn't talking to the owner, he was just dicking the customer around and then CONVINCED him he was going to have to "break even on his commission" to give the customer what he wanted, "but I like you, and I know you'll be back again." Meanwhile, he REALLY made a couple of grand on a manufacturer's incentive for moving an unpopular model. How do you know when salesmen are lying? Their lips move... | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Simple matter of fact, the dealer pays an invoice price for the bike, (and that price is pretty damned universal nationwide) there is an MSRP for the bike. There is a market demand price for the bike (which may or may not be above or below MSRP) and then there is the "good" deal that everyone wants. My idea of a good deal may mean that I want the new GPS unit installed and on the bike at the price on the floor. B might be that we actually had the bike they have been searching for and paid floor price to get it. C may want a discount on Assless pants (ifn buying a Harley) D may want the first service with syn3 covered. E well you see where this goes. there are as many deals to be gotten as there as many times as a customer gets a vehicle. There is a breaking point of what can and cant be done. Put all the cards on the table and play em. If your "deal" is price only, then lets get to it and cut the back and forth. I go to my manager ONCE. He signs the deal. If there is not a deal, then lets not monkey around it. I will not play yo-yo to a whim of a sham or a charade. I am a big fan of one and done, tell me what you want, and I will see if it is possible; paying customer always trumps game players. We may not always come to a deal, but you will know that I did not mince words, fiddle faddle around, or try and squeeze a bite off a ham sam-ich. (and if you are going to try and play me against another sales rep, I will put you right back in front of them, and C my way out of that A & B conversation) Life is short, this is supposed to be fun, the second it isnt, I am off to more lucrative pastures; where rest assured I get to be mean and confrontational and get paid for it. |
